What happened to pool?

anti-intellectualism is a core value in our nation

I think there are just more lazy people now more than ever.

Pool is an extremely complex game which requires a life time to master & then some.

The majority who merely bang balls around quickly lose interest.

Few seek professional instruction or would even recognize that it is crucial much less do endless drills in the solitude of their basement.

No blood, no fights, no cheer leaders, no instant gratification...

Women are not taken seriously in pool halls & there is no machismo for "men."

Interest in the "life of the mind" is nearly dead in our educational institutions & this can be generalized to pool & other endeavors.

Even traditional martial arts masters who require respect, ritual, forms, 1,000s of punches & kicks practiced in solitude per week.along with stretches ... are not as popular as schools that sell belts & promote simple "self defense" parlor tricks & emphasize tournaments & flashy weapons.

In high school, chess & debating clubs are considered to be the province of "geeks" & "nerds."

It is easy to delude yourself that you are a "gambler" in a casino, but not while you are sitting on a chair watching your opponent run balls because he or she has put in the time & rigor.

Asians excel in pool for the same reasons that they excel in math, science, classical music...
 
Pool in the US has been in the same limbo for the last 23 years (since Ive been around pool). The real big changes have been the European and Asian players. Their saturation of world class players have all but dominated the US mens and women players for at least the last 15 years (give or take).

Other than soccer, hockey or tennis to most of these countries, Professional pool is (or becoming) a very important part of their entertainment culture.

US sports and games entertainment is consumed by team events I.E., football, baseball, basketball and to a lesser extent, hockey. Individual sports and games like golf and bowling are a high priority events for the US consumer as well (apparently bowling being the lesser. However, bowling does have a mens and women professional legues very organized with sponsorship).

However, US mens professional pool has no mass appeal or demand from the sporting public. Advertisers have not expressed any real interest in the game as well. Young men and women dont go to college to become professional pool players, like future baseball, football or basketball players do.

Those who play pool, love to play pool they don't nessessarily want to go out and watch it. And it doesn't matter if you play on a bar box or nine footer either. People love to go to events, cheer and boo teams, tail gate, buy jerseys, hats or buy the latest equipment of their favorite player. Look what fantasy football has done for the NFL !

Like I have always said, the bigger the playing field the more appeal it has to people and the more money it will make for all.

When was the last time you invited (or been invited) over to your friends house to watch the latest monday night "live" 9-ball match.
 
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So many things have combined to hurt pool.

Video games definately did damage but you can go farther back and say the invention of the home television did not help either. Right at the time the golden era of straight pool ended was when TV's started to become common. People could suddenly entertain themselves at home and going out to watch the theater, a picture show, watch some pool, ect... was no longer needed. People used to have to "go out" to entertain themselves because their home was a bed, a kitchen, a washroom, and maybe a radio to listen to. People got bored and they went out and that helped pool get people watching.

The game changed from one that people knew and that was simple in straight pool to 9-ball. Pro's have been playing 9-ball for over 40 years now and as far as the general public goes it NEVER caught on. In that time 8-ball has become the most recognized and understood game by the public. We MUST go to 8-ball if we want to get some fans into the game because they don't understand the game, and they don't want to bother trying to.

In many ways the game is getting easier as well. Technology advances with pool equipment, chalk, cloth, it all helps to make ALL of the players play better pool. And with the current 4.5 inch cut diamond tables the game is simply not hard enough at the pro level. Amature players slip into the cracks, they upset the pros by getting a couple good breaks, a lucky safe, and poof they win. It wrecks one of the key requirements in sports, the top tier stars. Every sport needs their Tiger Woods, they need their Roger Federer, they need their Wayne Gretzky. Pool on 9 foot diamonds with 4.5 inch pockets is not, and will not create them in the races we are stuck playing (race to 11 at the peak for double KO events). We need the new 10-foot diamond tables with the same 4 1/8th inch pockets of the TAR table and we need to put the pros on those tables. The pro's need hard equipment that challenges them, but that will absolutely crush the top amature players that step in and think they can compete (this is assuming an actual and tour card exculsive pro tour).

It is also becomming exceedingly harder to find a decent pool hall to play at on this continent. A place where people want to go out and practice and play. We have some struggling family billiards places that the kids justifiably think are lame, and we get trendy and expensive sports bar/pool rooms kids cannot even enter. When I was younger we had pool halls that were classy, but kids could get into them before 8pm and play.

A kids program that introduced students to pool in school would also be hugely useful, someone could create a tournament system where 2 or 3 kids win the right to play for their school in the city championships against kids from other schools, the top three from each city/district get to play in the State Championships, and the winners of that play in the Nationals which would then be the qualifier to the World Juniors. Something like this done right could gain massive exposure for the game in not only building rising pool stars but also huge scores of fans and amature players who watch the pool when they are in school and get hooked on it. It would require table sponshership from a company like diamond, it would require people interested in each city in getting in touch with the school directors and explaining the game and the advantages of having their students take part, and it would benefit greatly from professional pool players who took some small amounts of time to visit a different school once each week to shoot with the kids, teach them some shots, give them some tips and some pointers and some drills to work on.

The benefits from it all? You get diamond firing off 2 tables to each school in a city of lets say 20 schools, that is 40 tables. Those 40 tables get some quick interest from the students with a little cheap poster marketing in the hallways, perhaps a exhibition between two professional pool players to set things off in a Gym assembly. You are going to get alot of kids interested in playing. Lets say 20 kids in the school who start to play really get into it, they become pool adicts like us. They start practicing like crazy, they start getting good, it spurs the other kids into wanting to get better, and diamond just might see a sale or 2 of tables coming from parents who see pool is something their kid is really interested in. My own parents bought a pool table for me when they saw how much the game helped me open up and become more of a social person as I found a niche I was good at and felt comfortable in.

Those pro's donating their time? They benefit from the fact that these kids who play, they are going to want to watch live pool, alot of them. You have those 20 schools near Cheasapeak and the US-Open, well now there are 400 kids who are playing the game in their school and they REALLY want to go watch the pro tournament and see some of the guys they even know because they teach them at their school. So student AND parents get drug out to the tournament, even if you get half of the kids and only one of the 2 parent chaparones that is still 400 people through the door, a huge boost for Barry. Now the booth people also has some kids, fairly new to the game, quite possibly don't own their own cue or case yet, and the booths do good business. They come back next year for sure, and a few more as well because they heard what happen and all those new people coming in that were prospective customers, now Barry is making more money and the prize fund goes up. This is starting to have far reaching economic benefits.

And guess what, with all these kids playing across the whole country expect to see ALOT more table sales, diamond is liable to see an initial cost in donating all of the tables but over the long run those kids graduation, many get jobs, and they will want their own table. At the very least they are going to want a good pool hall near buy with nice tables, and diamond will be selling those as well. It would push the pool table sales far higher then they are today and help rebuild the pool halls along with giving them a steady stream of new players coming out of high school.

The next step after all that was sorted would be to work on a university model of the same type of thing, but instead of the World Juniors the top players from each university as decided by tournaments in their home university would compete against the best players at other universities in Bowl types of events where one school beats another school for a specific trophy for that year. This type of stuff could be built, it could happen, and it would world. But it will take some time, it would require a real commitment from a table manufaturer that was willing to donate alot of tables on the thought that it will innevitably pay them back many fold in the long run when the game gets 200 fold the interest and support it has right now.

Of course the final boon? Once you have stuff like that going on, that many people comming to tournaments, watching pool in state championships and televised national championships (the spelling bee is televised, we can get this televised), the sponsers are going to be ALOT more interested in getting involved in this and getting involved in a big way too.
 
Its only going to get worse as time goes by. Seem like ever person under the age of 30 is stuck on playing COD. I myself have not played the game as i heard everyone that plays it get hooked so i purposely stayed away from it. I still see plenty of people playing pool at the local bars and some of the better pool rooms here. This just doesnt effect pool but a bunch of stuff. Playgrounds are empty, basketball courts, baseball fields etc. Guess where 75% of those people are playing COD/Battlefield.
 
You name it, the pool industry did it wrong. Bad promotions, bad branding, bad intentions. Hard to lure in big promotions when the players are cutting up the winnings before they ever hit the table.

Well here we go again and I disagree. take a good look at the old pro tour and what mackey did to the players and the game. he got away with a tidy sum and started a car business down In Florida I hear.
Earl Won 1 million and hasn't been paid.
Then comes the IPT and we all know what a bunch of BS that whole thing was. Remember the famous,"Left the checkbook at home"?
The players have had to dig, scrape, and worse in order to survive. The promoters have not been good leaders nor very good role models. So, they make deals to insure there are meals and gas money. i can't say that I blame them. They were taught well.
 
Its only going to get worse as time goes by. Seem like ever person under the age of 30 is stuck on playing COD. I myself have not played the game as i heard everyone that plays it get hooked so i purposely stayed away from it. I still see plenty of people playing pool at the local bars and some of the better pool rooms here. This just doesnt effect pool but a bunch of stuff. Playgrounds are empty, basketball courts, baseball fields etc. Guess where 75% of those people are playing COD/Battlefield.

if it would be only these kind of videogames / electronic timeWASTE.

I saw, in the last years, that lesser people go to bars due to this "entertainment" or they sit in a pub and play on their ****ing iphone/pad what do i know. Its like humanity doesnt need anymore real social contact.

As for pool i see another problem; people want action....non stop! when i watch for example a snooker match my brother says "boring" and my dad, who never saw even a pooltable says "that looks too easy" (a snookermatch, but when ronny plays well it looks easy ;)).
So people tend to watch soccer, football and so on where there is action, contact etc. a sport that requires mind isnt wanted anymore.

Lets have a look over to darts. i watched nearly every match i could till now because i also enjoy playing darts (yes really ;)). i know other folks who never threw a dart watching too because they say the athmosphere is so great etc. compared to that pool looks, except for the mosconi cup, like a documentary about nuns whileas darts is a hardcore porno.

Today even strategy games on the PC have leagues with sponsors etc that are STREAMED LIVE. When a bunch of computer nerds can organize a league with sponsors, price funds and a final world tourney in corea we should ask our selfs what weve done wrong.

On the other hand we ve had in our club 3 or 4 new members in the last 2 months, which isnt bad.
Why? They came once to play a little bit, we took contact and introduced them to the game, the rules etc.
When i read these posts here i get the impression that every poolhall in the US looks like a jail, uncomfortable and with "shady people" in there. i have another impression here because all of our players are really nice and for the majority also well educated. often there are young people coming to watch soccer on TV and we train just at the same time, they start watching and hopefully get once interested.

What some of our players are now trying to organize is a sort of triathlon. the pool club, the dartsclub and some tablesoccer players want to make a 2vs2 tourney where every discipline is played. This also attracts the younger people (who mostly enjoy table soccer).

Well this is a long post :grin-square:
 
it's just not flashy anymore, that's all there is to it. The people they put on tv never make a single facial gesture... allison fisher, ga young kim etc. they look like zombies up there

who would want to play that?
 
I haven't posted the P.D.C darts thread for no reason.
You must ask yourselves why did U.S T.V ditch the Pool scene ? Yet the SKY T.V people make a show of the darts !

Answers on a postcard please !

Darts is popular because it's quick.

Who wants to watch a man watching a table? A time element MUST be introduced to pool.
 
Pool like any other sport must be developed with the kids,unfortunately this isn't being done with pool .If you want future players ,start them out when they are young. Most important, make it affordable. Empty tables earn NOTHING .

Pool is addictive individual sport; i have seen and heard of many kids who got involved and reined their education and drop out; to find out too late there is no good future in pool; some recovered some did not. One time they asked Efren Reyes if kids should play pool, he said, "not until they complete their education".

For pool to flourish, we need a type of game or match that can finish 100% and a winner is declared within 2-3 hours show mainly for TV consumption, not four days! in general people do not like to watch shows with results already known. Also, all matches must have 30 second clock on players, "no lint cleaning, or going up and down, and around the table" i like how Earl said it!
If we are not on TV regularly the sport will never make it.

The other fact as much as i hate smoking and smoky pool halls, banning smoking inside did pool really bad, i walk in large pool halls with 30 tables, will be lucky to find someone, let alone action, pool halls are giving free pool for 5 hours if you buy lunch and not many biting!! they are nothing but bars! I bet you if they turn that large space into Golf short shooting range they will make money..
 
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pool killed itself

i think pools own image that was created is responsible for it's demise.

the sport has always struggled with trying to uphold a class image.
 
I haven't posted the P.D.C darts thread for no reason.
You must ask yourselves why did U.S T.V ditch the Pool scene ? Yet the SKY T.V people make a show of the darts !

Answers on a postcard please !

Modest of you not to point out the obvious answer. :D

America doesn't have British (or Charlie Williams' - I couldn't resist, he's Korean, you know) management ability and drive to organize,create, and promote.:D

America claims the game, but major international tournaments aren't run by Americans.

http://www.matchroomsport.com/sports/pool/history.htm
 
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then they should go to a mc donalds management camp, these guys are able to sell crap n shit and make millions with it all over the world :cool: :D
 
Modest of you not to point out the obvious answer. :D

America doesn't have British (or Charlie Williams' - I couldn't resist) management ability and drive to organize,create, and promote.:D

America claims the game, but major international tournaments aren't run by Americans.

http://www.matchroomsport.com/sports/pool/history.htm

pretty much sums it up.

i think we missed the boat when TCOM came out and did not take advantage of pool's increase in popularity.

it was the perfect opportunity for a governing body to make household names out of the top players at that time, and solidify pool's stake as a vernable attraction to the media.

at least snooker had the WPBSA (for better or worse) to bring snooker into the everyman's home. along with management groups which were knowledgeble enough in how to turn players into characters who's names would be on the lips of men and women alike. the 80's image of snooker was electric, and the players were like rock stars, heck there was even that snooker loopy video.

if pool was promoted properly when the time was right, we should be able to go on youtube and find loads of video's on Earl Strickland or Johnny Archer like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=ihiCPKE3Lq4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbTQpeEheYA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=BD_g0PJG-0g
 
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Poker hurt some of the growth of pool in the last decade. An awful lot of young men, who could be shooting pool - instead are sitting at poker tables at race tracks and casinos.

But poker is just one factor among many. I think the biggest thing is the end of the boom era of the 1990's and early 2000's. A lot of disposable income is no longer available. That means a lot less large groups and parties heading out to pool rooms and running up huge liquor tabs. I remember amongst league players, how everyone was buying all kinds of high dollar production cues and even some customs. I don't see that anymore. The league players I see now are happy with a $200 and under cues.


No more DotCom boom. No more home equity ATM. Lot of people have lost jobs. Everything is more expensive, especially gas. Few people have had a raise.


Almost everything is down now. It just looks extra bad for pool because pool was on shaky ground to begin with.
 
ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!!!!......pool is pool, dosn't change, video games change , something new to apeal to the young generation.........sad, sad.......electronics killed pool.

I agree electronics have killed pool. Kids today get little exercise. When I was a boy growing up in the fifties we played ball. Anykind. We rode bikes. We walked to the store. High school was a walk of 2 miles to get there. The same thing is happening to the sport of hunting. Laziness. Why get up at the crack of dawn and go out and freeze your butt off. Why walk the woods 3-4 hours hoping to even see a deer. Wake up in your warm house at any hour you choose to get up and play video hunting. Like I like to say, we wake up in our air conditioned house, walk out to our air conditioned car and drive to our air conditioned place of work. Pool requires many years of time investment. People today have too many easy choices of entertainment and dont have to put forth any effort. Why work, lets PLAY.
 
I agree electronics have killed pool. Kids today get little exercise. When I was a boy growing up in the fifties we played ball. Anykind. We rode bikes. We walked to the store. High school was a walk of 2 miles to get there. The same thing is happening to the sport of hunting. Laziness. Why get up at the crack of dawn and go out and freeze your butt off. Why walk the woods 3-4 hours hoping to even see a deer. Wake up in your warm house at any hour you choose to get up and play video hunting. Like I like to say, we wake up in our air conditioned house, walk out to our air conditioned car and drive to our air conditioned place of work. Pool requires many years of time investment. People today have too many easy choices of entertainment and dont have to put forth any effort. Why work, lets PLAY.


It's worse than you think. There's laziness even within video games themselves. There was an era of sorts, late 1990's early 2000's where certain kinds of video games actually required months and even years to reach a high level of play in. Large learning curve to reach the highest levels of competition. Usually FPS type games.


The creators of video games quickly moved away from that, and dramatically simplified and dumbed down these games so that they don't even require much hand eye coordination (if you can call it that) and quick reaction speed. Making them 10x more "accessible" to the novice video gamer. They are more about fancy graphics and visuals, cinematics, story and such than they are about raw game play. More customers that way. Also, what good is a game with a 2 year learning curve to be able to compete at the top? They like to release new games each year or 18 months.
 
Rent and Regulation vs what people think they should pay is out of whack.
big difference in taking in 200 a week during the 60's and 4000 a week in 2010 to keep the doors open for a 10 table room.

bill
 
cell phones, video games, internet, and higher cost of living

Plus the Cost of Running a Pool Room Circa 2012. HighRun55's Posts on his personal struggle to keep him room open may help you understand.

In the Willie Mosconi Biography, "Willies Game" Mosconi say Pool was on the decline since the year of his birth, 1913.
 
I have read many posts like this. I could write a book about efforts to promote pool to the youth. You and many others do not have a clue. You can try all you want and make it FREE. They will tell you to take a hike and take pool with you. There is other stuff that is much more fun to do. They are not interested and you can't get them interested.

While I do respect your opinion let me ask, what future has pool got in America without any interest from the generations to come? Oddly it seems that there is interest from younger generations in other countries and it makes me wonder why there and not here?
 
The simple answer it, like everything, "Times have changed" and nothing is forever and nothing is guaranteed. I owned a room in the early 70's. For pool I got $1.20 an hour per player, beer was $.60 to $1.25. My rent was $285.00 a month electric ran around $75.00 a month. Workers got $2.00 an hour + tips. and I made more money bottom line then you can make today with that little 12 table place. A pool room was a nice little mom & pop business. Pool rooms have been priced out of the market. Opening a pool room today requires considerable expense and is a high risk investment.

In the old days all you needed to open a pool room was the inclination to do so and the customers would be waiting at the door. To be honest, I don't even go to the pool rooms myself anymore. I may stick my head in to see what is going on, usually nothing, but that is about it. I have my big screen TV, a million channels, PPV then there is the internet add to that I have a table sitting in the other room if I want to hit some balls. The pool rooms that are making a go of it have to depend on other incomes besides pool and are not the old time hangouts that breeds lifelong pool players. Times change, people change and that is that. With all the distractions of today pool is just an orphan trying to survive.

It will survive and people will always play it if they can even find a place to play. That is the problem, how do you put the cart back in front of the horse, my guess is, you can't. The classic pool room that produced the classic characters we remember is destined to fade even more and become to us a memory as concerts in the park were to people of the last century. I don't see pool rooms really making any kind of real come back, times have changed.
 
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