What is it about South Wests?
- Thread starter Jeff
- Start date
Often copied but never duplicated
I have seen no more Southwest cues warp than any other cuemaker's, to include Sugartree, Josey, etc. Wood is wood. ITo date, I am not a fan of resin/glue impregnated, flat-laminated shafts, etc, but I will keep an open mind about it.
People who love the play of SW cues know the timeless quality of style, construction and play of the cues. If the cues were not so popular, etc, they would not be so copied.
Nothing is more subjective than the hit/playability of a cue. One of the worst hitting cues I ever owned was a gorgeous Scruggs that retailed for around $4k...strange vibration in it (also, several of the best hitting cues were Scruggs). I don't think it left Tim's shop that way, but he would be faulted by a person who played with it. You just never know how a cue has been treated, stored, etc.
What cues do you folks feel will not warp, etc if they are not properly handled, stored, etc? I can think of a few... Cuetec, Scorpion and a few other glass cues, but that is about it.
I have seen no more Southwest cues warp than any other cuemaker's, to include Sugartree, Josey, etc. Wood is wood. ITo date, I am not a fan of resin/glue impregnated, flat-laminated shafts, etc, but I will keep an open mind about it.
People who love the play of SW cues know the timeless quality of style, construction and play of the cues. If the cues were not so popular, etc, they would not be so copied.
Nothing is more subjective than the hit/playability of a cue. One of the worst hitting cues I ever owned was a gorgeous Scruggs that retailed for around $4k...strange vibration in it (also, several of the best hitting cues were Scruggs). I don't think it left Tim's shop that way, but he would be faulted by a person who played with it. You just never know how a cue has been treated, stored, etc.
What cues do you folks feel will not warp, etc if they are not properly handled, stored, etc? I can think of a few... Cuetec, Scorpion and a few other glass cues, but that is about it.
He uses wood threads.masonh said:
Still sectional butts but uses wood threads.
BB and Josey I believe do.masonh said:
skins said:
We have seen a LOT of SW cues...and the problems that you normally see with butt warpage are issues localized to the A-joint handle connection. I have maybe seen 1 or 2 that was determined to actually be in the forearm. You rarely see any of their shafts show much warpage. They have always been known for having excellent shafts.
I'm a firm believer that the climate differences in which they were made vs where they travel to and end up lead to the propsensity for this kind of movement in the cues. It is also noted that most only show a slight degree of warpage...nothing that would affect play in the least. We've seen the same for some other cues made in more extreme climates (AK, TX, FL, etc.)
At any rate, SW cues are very, very consitent hitting cues and have a built in mystique and history....sort of like Bushka. Not to mention one of the hottest logos with the cactus. All of that coupled with the fact that the Asian players admired SWs for years and pool is still booming over there have fanned the hot market like a bellows for the last several years....
I'm a firm believer that the climate differences in which they were made vs where they travel to and end up lead to the propsensity for this kind of movement in the cues.
Then how come their shafts don't warp more than their butts?
The butts are thicker, are sealed and finished.
How come the A-joint gives?
Then how come their shafts don't warp more than their butts?
The butts are thicker, are sealed and finished.
How come the A-joint gives?
cueaddicts said:
with respect.....this really didn't answer my question??? in asking the question, my point was that i know how at least one of the makers construct their cues in every detail and they do not have as prominent a chance to the warpage "factor" seen in many cues made in previous era's. i did get the other posters point though and i guess i should digress and contradict my own former statement and say that the techniques used in todays cue making play a large part in not eliminating the warpage factor but greatly diminish it. the fact is construction techniques are quickly evolving and the initial thought processes still remain at the forefront of a makers work and imo SW cues has a great "initial thought process" for the construction of their cues.
skins said:
skins, I have seen 0 Joseys with a handle warped. Also, 0 Gilberts...and I've seen a lot of Gilberts. Don't know how Keith does his A-joints, but I do know how Andy does them and his method is bullet proof. Selection of the handle wood is key, as is having everything properly faced and no slop. Haven't seen many Sugartrees....maybe 10 or so in person and they are VERY IMPRESSIVE. I want one. It will be interesting to see how the Sugartrees hold up over time. If he is doing wood threads like Joey says, there have been some old schoolers who tried that for a while and got away from that because they felt it was inferior. Whatever works for you and your method, though, I guess.
Joey, construction may have something to do with the handle warpage, but maybe sometimes the wood selection, too. Also, I don't think the finish and thick wood will prevent warpage. It's either proned to do it or it's not. Coring absolutely does prevent it....with a straight assed grained core (maple, PH, rosewood, etc.)
Just my opinion guys for what it's worth. Seems a lot of cuemakers are still pretty secretive about their A-joints. It's the backbone of a cue imo.
Interesting subject for sure.
Joey, construction may have something to do with the handle warpage, but maybe sometimes the wood selection, too. Also, I don't think the finish and thick wood will prevent warpage. It's either proned to do it or it's not. Coring absolutely does prevent it....with a straight assed grained core (maple, PH, rosewood, etc.)
I don't think it's warpage. I think it's movement in that joinery.
I don't think it's warpage. I think it's movement in that joinery.
i agree with Joey.something comes loose or changes inside the "joinery" as Joey said.glue,wood pin or something,but it can cause the cue to appear warped.i had one that played beautifully but buzzed it stcuk sideways and the joint lifted off the table slightly when rolled by itself.i pulled at both sides with a tiny amout of pressure right around the A-joint.snapped instantly with minimal pressure.not sure exactly what happened but after that when i rolld the pieces individually they were both 100% dead flat rollers.absolutely no warpage.again i wasn't trying to break it,i was just checking it out to maybe starighten it.sounds stupid i know,but it broke with what was probably less than 5 pounds or pressure.less than it would take to break a pencil.both pieces of the forearm were dead straight.
Absolutely.wild west said:
What percentage of Southwest cues has any one individual seen that were warped? How many SW cues have been produced since they started? I don't know how true data of that nature could be compiled, anyways. If SW puts out 250 cues per year, and have been around since 1980..that is a ton of cues. Of course they did not start out selling 350 cues/year, but it might average 200, if so, that would be 5,400 cues produced. How many of these were "warped" of any significance. Were any of these conversions from full splice blanks, etc, if so, they would need to be removed from the count. The same would be true for other cuemakers. You would have to know total production less conversions and full-splice cues, etc. Cues made from sneakies don't count. I just don't see how anyone could have enough data available to have a real solid argument either way. Variables: how were they stored, have they been modified in any way, were they re-wrapped/refinished at any time, etc, etc. This is just a tough argument to support, no matter which "side" one is on.
Joe
Joe
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