I thought the same. I managed to hit some balls with a Cog yesterday but I was not really impressed in terms of playability. It is a good looking cue but not as good as some others such as RH. For me it did not look fancy at all given the fact that it closed to 3k and no ivory or such things could be found anywhere on the cue. But the sound when it hit the ball was good though.
What is so special about Cognoscenti cues?
- Thread starter haminh
- Start date
I thought the same. I managed to hit some balls with a Cog yesterday but I was not really impressed in terms of playability. It is a good looking cue but not as good as some others such as RH. For me it did not look fancy at all given the fact that it closed to 3k and no ivory or such things could be found anywhere on the cue. But the sound when it hit the ball was good though.
The above post is the kind of post I get reamed for.
I think playability is subjective. I have owned three Cogs and all of them played great - for me. They didn't however feel like my Joss West or my Scruggs which I liked in a different way.
To me the Cogs were like a different brand of sports car. They were the Porsche to my Corvette in the Tim Scruggs.
As to price, well I used to think that Joey's cues were overpriced.
BUT after visiting him at his shop and seeing the amount of care he puts into EVERY aspect of construction and some of the details I can't disclose on this forum because they are things he developed for reasons of his own, after being there and seeing that and spending time with him I am convinced that he has earned the right to put whatever price tag he wants on the things he makes.
It's not about the inlays and gems for Joey Gold, it's about how the cue plays for him.
I guess it's one of those things that you just have to feel for yourself. I was fortunate enough to aquire a few of my Cogs when the price was around $5-600 for plain janes and $1200 for a basic inlaid model.
I definitely would not advise anyone to get their nose open and go off on a Cog just because of the price tag if they are not familiar with the work. But there are plenty of people out there who know Joey's work and appreciate it enough to keep buying at Joey's prices.
As an example I wouldn't run out and buy a Rolex or Patek Phillipe just because they are pricey. I'd have to do my homework and figure out what I wanted to invest in. Unless of course I was so rich and careless that it didn't matter to me.
But it is definitely not right to say that any particular brand is "better" or equivalent to a Cog in terms of playability or value. I have been in places where I couldn't move a Cognoscienti for $50 and other places where people knew them and were willing to pay a premium to get one.
I have played with a lot of cues in my time. There isn't much that plays like a Cog. I personally feel that this is one cue that stands on it's own and apart from others in terms of "hit". Its not for everyone and is definitely non-traditional in some aspects of the construction which affect the feel of the cue. At one time I had more than 100 cues on the wall from Adams to Scruggs and could pick any of them to play with and the Cog was what stayed in my case most of the time.
So count me as someone who loves the way a Cog hits.
Obi-Wan Ke9ball
Jedi Knight
I was there the day Joey came through Terre Haute, and if memory serves correctly (as it always does) you were swinging from his nuts and wanted to buy one. Apparently, you didn't as you have nothing nice to say and would rather bash him. For a guy who "chicken wing's" his outside english shots, I think anyone who trusts your opinion on how a cue plays is as big of a fish as you. Learn to play with one cue you coward, and throw some money into it rather than piss your money away on used way warped cues. And for what it's worth (I don't use acronyms like you, little girl) you need more than the 7 from that kath13. Have fun losing more hair replying to me.
Obi-Wan Ke9ball
Jedi Knight
Hence why you only take pictures. Nut up and play foo.
eyeheartcues
Registered
Joe makes the best cue on the market. He, in 20 years, hasn't changed his construction techniques. The top imitated cuemker would have to be Joe, hands down. Silver stitching - most replicated ringwork. G-10 pin - more and more cuemakers are using since he "lost the patent" (never had a patent, but people didn't know where to get it). His cue is a half an inch shorter than most and in inch shorter than the rest, but that half inch doesn't matter to true pool players. I would rather spend the money on a flawless piece of equipment from a quality cuemaker. His balance point and shaft taper is perfectly consistent from cue to cue. Every Cognoscenti cue plays exactly the same, sans the Cogs with predator shafts. I bought mine because of how it played. I've been in pool for a lifetime and the taper he uses has been called "old school". I've seen "old birds" pick up my cue and run better than any "young cat" plays with their mass production with laminated shaft. All in all, the best way to answer your questoin is the craftsmanship and quality.
I have had approximately 14 cognoscenti cues and I think for the most part they were all good players. I have owned them from the entry level plain jane ones all the way up to an ivory and silver loaded 8k Ebony monster. Maybe it is me but I think the plain ones played a little better than the really fancy ones. I think they are great players and I have nothing bad to say about them, sure you can get a less expensive player from many cue makers, but if you want a well built cue that puts a lot of action on the ball I think Cogs are up there with any other cue and I have owned just about all of them, Tasc, Searing, Scruggs, Josey, McWorter, McDaniel, Schick, Tad, Gina, JW old and new and many many others. I am a 20+ year cue swapping whore.
-don
-don
with respect to all here, ANYONE who has an egregiously negative opinion of Joe's cues, has either not spent time in his shop and actually witnessed the creation of them, has a hidden bias, ignorance, a personal issue that has nothing to do with the truth of his craft, or not enough knowledge or ability to know any difference....there's a reason the tag line to his cues is "Precision Billiard Instruments"......a loose but accurate interpretation of the name "Cognoscenti" is "For those who know the difference"....too many do not....
skins ---------- is among those who know the difference........
skins ---------- is among those who know the difference........
My Gus would be near the top. I find that the old Kersenbrocks and Franklin Southwests almost without fail have been great players. As you can see in my signature line my cues I play and own (at this time). If you see me hanging on a cue, I really like it and it plays well (other than the Rambow that I have for other reasons). I have traded away great playing cues too, but if hang on to a cue its a great player or I send it down the road.
I commission a couple cues built for me each year. I would never consider buying a Cog cue. As some has mentioned above, I have never been impressed with his cues. His cues seems to be a plain cue with a CNC cut out that is replaced with a CNC inlay. I have never seen a veneered cue from Joey, and I am not saying I have seen everything he has done.
For the last couple years, I have been playing with a old Josswest, pretty simple cue 4 point, four veneer, no inlays, steel joint (I prefer ivory usually). I have one original shaft, and a shaft made by Rick Howard. Three reasons why I play with it. One, Rick made me a great replacement shaft and it plays great. Two, I think these old JW cues way undervalued and this one is really neat looking cue. Finally, its a really simple cue that "fits" me (57"), its the simpliest cue I own and for those guys in the know about old cues, they all like to take a look at it.
Dollar for dollar, I think Rick Howard, and Andy Gilbert cues are the best playing cues for the dollar. The best playing cue I ever owned was a Rick Howard cue that was ebony on ebony with a blue, black, blue veneer. It has an ivory joint, ivory ferrelles and Moori soft tips. I sold it to get something else but was impressed with it as far as workmanship and playability. It was by far one of the least expensive cues I have ever owned.
My favorite cuemaker is Bill Schick, but while Bill cues are the most precise and perfect, the hit IMO is not the best I have ever hit with but very very good. My Bill Schick cue is my favorite cue I own, followed by the Gus. It took me about a year to get the Schick in a number of trades, etc. The Gus took (2) cues and quite a bit of cash.
I am a different cat, I let anyone hit with any of my cues. Like my friend Fatboy, I believe cues are meant to be enjoyed. If you dont agree with my views on cues then that is okay too. If everyone thought the same thing it would be a boring place.
One other story, Dickie Todd is the owner of the best poolroom here in Paducah. He plays with a Cog and really loves it. Joey made it exactly as Dickie asked, it weighs 17 oz and has a 14mm shaft. Dickie loves it.
I wish everyone the best of rolls,
ken
I think you're blatant knock on his cues is despicable for a so-called salesman. Joey could give you the 5 out in playing pool or knowledge of cuemaking. If you only knew.
Cognoscenti Cues
I own 2-Cog's and they are exceptional cues.
I've heard a couple of people speak negatively about the playability of a Cog, but they haven't hit with the Cog's I own.
I love the way these cues play.
I don't even like to let people hit with them because I end up prying it out of their hands.
Even the pickiest people I know.
I own 2-Cog's and they are exceptional cues.
I've heard a couple of people speak negatively about the playability of a Cog, but they haven't hit with the Cog's I own.
I love the way these cues play.
I don't even like to let people hit with them because I end up prying it out of their hands.
Even the pickiest people I know.
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I never met Joey Gold in Terre Haute. I missed meeting Bobby Hunter as well. I did meet Joey in Louisville at the Derby, but I think that was after he had came to Terre Haute to meet some of his old "friends".
So maybe your memory is in error.
If I get asked my opinion, I will give it. I have never lied.
As far as your other comments, whatever you need to make you happy I guess.
Ken
I am not a cue salesman. I buy and sell alot of cues, yes, usually make 10 cue trades a year.
So to prove how great Cog cues are you want me to play Joey?
If I only knew, show me a cue that isnt entirely CNC ? I didnt say I have seen every Cog, but the ones I have seen were a made either with no inlays or with a CNC generated one.
Ken:boring2:
Obi-Wan Ke9ball
Jedi Knight
Ken, you never "played" with one, all you've done is "tried one out". And your last reply is still an ignorance driven reply that is simply proof that you are nothing more than a stroke challenged bag of ignorant. Actually PLAY with a cue, don't hit a ball with your chicken wing and make a decision based on that. He has nothing that you want; we get it, don't beat the dead horse any more. Tell me how you make a pool cue Ken? You have no idea what it takes. Till the day you can say that you've made thousands of cues that have ALL sold and did that in 20 years, just keep your insults to yourself.
My Gus would be near the top. I find that the old Kersenbrocks and Franklin Southwests almost without fail have been great players. As you can see in my signature line my cues I play and own (at this time). If you see me hanging on a cue, I really like it and it plays well (other than the Rambow that I have for other reasons). I have traded away great playing cues too, but if hang on to a cue its a great player or I send it down the road.
I commission a couple cues built for me each year. I would never consider buying a Cog cue. As some has mentioned above, I have never been impressed with his cues. His cues seems to be a plain cue with a CNC cut out that is replaced with a CNC inlay. I have never seen a veneered cue from Joey, and I am not saying I have seen everything he has done.
For the last couple years, I have been playing with a old Josswest, pretty simple cue 4 point, four veneer, no inlays, steel joint (I prefer ivory usually). I have one original shaft, and a shaft made by Rick Howard. Three reasons why I play with it. One, Rick made me a great replacement shaft and it plays great. Two, I think these old JW cues way undervalued and this one is really neat looking cue. Finally, its a really simple cue that "fits" me (57"), its the simpliest cue I own and for those guys in the know about old cues, they all like to take a look at it.
Dollar for dollar, I think Rick Howard, and Andy Gilbert cues are the best playing cues for the dollar. The best playing cue I ever owned was a Rick Howard cue that was ebony on ebony with a blue, black, blue veneer. It has an ivory joint, ivory ferrelles and Moori soft tips. I sold it to get something else but was impressed with it as far as workmanship and playability. It was by far one of the least expensive cues I have ever owned.
My favorite cuemaker is Bill Schick, but while Bill cues are the most precise and perfect, the hit IMO is not the best I have ever hit with but very very good. My Bill Schick cue is my favorite cue I own, followed by the Gus. It took me about a year to get the Schick in a number of trades, etc. The Gus took (2) cues and quite a bit of cash.
I am a different cat, I let anyone hit with any of my cues. Like my friend Fatboy, I believe cues are meant to be enjoyed. If you dont agree with my views on cues then that is okay too. If everyone thought the same thing it would be a boring place.
One other story, Dickie Todd is the owner of the best poolroom here in Paducah. He plays with a Cog and really loves it. Joey made it exactly as Dickie asked, it weighs 17 oz and has a 14mm shaft. Dickie loves it.
I wish everyone the best of rolls,
ken
Sigh... You are entitled to an opinion, it's not the opinion, it's the way you state your opinion that I take offense to. I have had several cues and just because I no longer own them, doesn't mean that you will find me on a pool forum bashing them when a thread pops up about that cue maker. and, you have never even owned a Cog.
As far as your statements about them "His cues seems to be a plain cue with a CNC cut out that is replaced with a CNC inlay. I have never seen a veneered cue from Joey, and I am not saying I have seen everything he has done." You really don't get it and one thing I learned in a pool room is never wise up the sucker and friend, that's what you are.
I have never made an insult.
I just related that I have never seen anything that wasnt CNC on a Cog cue. I feel exactly the same on the Siegal cues. (Dont want to open a second can of worms).
I feel the same way about new Schon verses old Schon cues. I prefer the older ones with sharp points.
I have "hit" several different cues, and I dont have to play with them for years know if I like them or not.
I still stand by my original post, I do not think Cog cues are "special". While some may think silver stitch rings are significant, I do not. Yes, the pin Joey uses is different from everybody else (I agree he was the first to use it), but IMO, I dont think that is significant as the contribution to cuemaking as Kersenbrock, or several other cuemakers.
These are my opinions, you can have yours, these are mine. When asked, I will share my opinion.
Ken
Which poolroom would that be? How's that working out for ya?
Ken
Well, well, well. Classy guy, that's what you are!
You, like Napoleon, have an inflated sense of self-worth.
Over the last 16 years I have owned and played with maybe 5-6 Cogs. My favorite was a bocote plain jane from about 14/15 years ago. This cue played the quite games like 1-pocket & straight pool really well - I mean really well: great feel and control at soft to medium speed shots w/spin or not. I didn't feel it held up as well on the hard (speed) shots that you may commonly need in 9-ball. But with that said, Billy Incardona played with a Cog for years and was amung the top in 9-ball, it must have played OK.
Because Cogs were (maybe still are) 57 1/2", it also helped me make a transition to a 58" cue since I used to play with a 57" Schrager for many years adn before that a 57" Joss from '72. I also thing the workmanship is really good as well. You would have to try it to see if it's the right cue for you.
Dave
Because Cogs were (maybe still are) 57 1/2", it also helped me make a transition to a 58" cue since I used to play with a 57" Schrager for many years adn before that a 57" Joss from '72. I also thing the workmanship is really good as well. You would have to try it to see if it's the right cue for you.
Dave
Ken...The fact that you "diss" CNC just shows that you know nothing about cue construction. You're making judgement calls on something you just personally don't like (which is an opinion...and to which you're entitled). That said, CNC cues don't PLAY any different than sharp point cues. The playability (as JB mentioned), is extremely subjective from person to person, and is based on how the cue is constructed...not how the points are "installed" in the cue. For your information, regardless of whether points are CNC or 'hand-cut', they still have to be HAND-INLAID...which if you had ever been to Joe's shop, you'd understand how difficult it is to put some of the elaborate scrollwork points is (I own the first split Shiseido point cue, and it is one of my prized possessions). I'm in the camp (like several other knowledgeable cue owners here) that Joe's cues play like nothing else, and I've owned dozens of cues, including Balabushka, Southwest, old Gina, JW, and Szamboti (among many others). The Cog has always been my favorite...and it's the "hit" that, for me, makes it favored to me. Forget about the dazzling designs that Joe has come up (and some others have tried to copy). Opinions are like a-holes...every has one, and many of them stink (but we're all entitled to our own). 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Ken...The fact that you "diss" CNC just shows that you know nothing about cue construction. You're making judgement calls on something you just personally don't like (which is an opinion...and to which you're entitled). That said, CNC cues don't PLAY any different than sharp point cues. The playability is based on how the cue is constructed...not how the points are "installed" in the cue. For your information, regardless of whether points are CNC or 'hand-cut', they still have to be HAND-INLAID...which if you had ever been to Joe's shop, you'd understand how difficult it is to put some of the elaborate scrollwork points is (I own the first split Shiseido point cue, and it is one of my prized possessions). I'm in the school (like several other knowledgeable cue owners here) that Joe's cues play like nothing else, and I've owned dozens of cues, including Balabushka, Southwest, old Gina, JW, and Szamboti (among many others). The Cog has always been my favorite...and it's the "hit" that, for me, makes it that to me. Forget about the dazzling designs that Joe has come up (and some others have tried to copy). Opinions are like a-holes...every has one, and many of them stink (but we're all entitled to our own).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott -
You too are entitled to your opinion as well. I am not "diss" anything.
Please reread the OP, he asked what was special about Cog cues. I replied that I have not seen any of them that were not CNC. I have "hit" with several of them. IMO, again for about the 10 time, IMO, I do not think they are special.
Everytime someone thinks I am down on COG cues, hell there are things I dont like on alot of cues.
Gina, I have owned a few of these, I hate that the outside "venner" is rounded. Southwest cues seem to have only minor minor differences (rings) and wood selection.
Im not saying that laying in the CNC in pocket that was cut with a CNC isnt difficult, but IMO but to me that isnt what I would call special.
If you think they are the greatest since sliced bread, great. I havent insulted anyone or anything.
Ken
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