what is the best gambling match you have ever seen?

[Grady]

I also watched Grady playing 1h against Bucktooth at Reno. Bucktooth was getting a weird spot. Bucktooth was winning and he starts talking saying something like, "I'm such a dog the ought to call me Purna dog chow." It was really something, he's beating Grady and calling himself a dog. Grady wanted to keep playing but his backer said no.

A friend of mine, Phil Nobel, was staking me to play Bucktooth this time that you're talking about. Five to three and the break is the way we were playing. I won the only set we played and Phil quit...not me. Phil gave me all the money which was $1500.00 just to be nice, because we were good friends.
I did play awfully well in that set. Thanks for reminding me of a pleasant memory.

 

[cueball1950]

How about Joyner at the OPEN playing a guy 10/4 and the breaks for 200 bananas a game and cliff is up 2000. The gent (we all know who it is) then tells cliff he needs more weight. Cliff was reluctant at first but then decides to give this gentleman 10/3 and the breaks but only if they double the bet. All is agreed to. The gent wins the 1st game and then cliff wins the next 10 games or so............................mike

 

[jay helfert]

One I'll always remember was watching Cardone give Bucktooth the Six ball at the Stardust in 1972.
Everyone wanted to bet on Tooth at first, but after Billy caught his gear, the betting swung the other way.
Billy ran out from everywhere. It was the era of the pushout and Tooth would roll out for a long rail bank and Billy would swish it and run out. I don't think he missed a ball for the last five or six hours. He busted Tooth for 25K, playing for three to five hundred a game. Big, big dough back then.
It was the last time Bucky was ever broke. He went home to Oakland and made millions in the diamond business and manufacturing furniture.

The one I would have liked to have seen was Richies memorable 9-Ball match with Billy Johnson (Wade Crane) in Atlanta. No one could beat Richie back then (the 70's) and they played for several days, back and forth. In the end, Ronnie told me Richie won a little gas money (his words), but Richie said Billy was the best 9-Ball player in the world.

One other interesting match up was Danny D. playing Rich Geiler ten ahead for 20K in the 80's in Reno. Geiler got to the hill a couple of times and Danny made a couple of great run-outs under pressure (we were broke if he lost). They played all night and about 7AM Danny got him.

A great One Pocket match was when Ronnie played Danny in Phoenix for 20K in 1988. It was Ronnie's last hurrah as a top player and he really prepared for the match. They both played great and Ronnie won the match in the fifth and final set. It took three days to play. Fortunately, we got that one on tape.

More recently the marathon One Pocket match for 100K between Jack Cooney and James Walden in 2003 at the DCC in Louisville. They played either eight or ten ahead. I should remember because I was in for a few thou. It went on day and night (with short breaks) for three or four days, before Jack prevailed.

My own opinion, in Jack's prime, Cliff would have been an unhappy camper.
Only Efren and Ronnie were in his league. Of course, he rarely showed his true speed. Didn't have too. The first time I saw Jack really have to play was against Monk (he may have been giving him a ball 8-7). They were betting like 500 a game and Jack played One Pocket as good as I ever saw it played that night. His Cue ball control was the best I ever saw, before or since.

 

[Devil]

No One...

I watched Jack in action and in my opinion no one could get the cash like Jack. Played great and showed nothing.

 

[Cornerman]

was anybody at the reyes/joyner match?e.

I was. And my camcorder was out of battery time. I vowed never to have that happen again.

It was the best one-pocket I've ever seen, considering that it was a fairly long race.

Efren beating Alex at this year's DCC was probably better than that, but it wasn't gambling, and it was a short race.

there must be a million stories out there.

There are. And with the Derby City Classic and other one-pocket events, we are in the middle of some golden era of classic stories in the making.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

More recently the marathon One Pocket match for 100K between Jack Cooney and James Walden in 2003 at the DCC in Louisville. They played either eight or ten ahead. I should remember because I was in for a few thou. .

The rest of us remember this in 2000, Jay.

Walden vs. Cooney Report, 2000 DCC

Fred

 

[Joseph Ortega]

How about Joyner at the OPEN playing a guy 10/4 and the breaks for 200 bananas a game and cliff is up 2000. The gent (we all know who it is) then tells cliff he needs more weight. Cliff was reluctant at first but then decides to give this gentleman 10/3 and the breaks but only if they double the bet. All is agreed to. The gent wins the 1st game and then cliff wins the next 10 games or so............................mike

i am completely clueless as to who the other player is. who is it? if you dont wanna say, any clues?

 

[ajrack]

8 ball

In Vegas at the Cuetopia, a friend of mine played Parica $50 a game 8 ball. Jose ran 8 racks from the break. My friend quit, and then asked me if Jose would play for less...I said " he's a pool player" so I am sure he would play again. They played a set ... race to 5 for $100... my friend ran 2 racks and Jose then ran 5 more. ... it's not the amount, it is the performance.

 

[Varney Cues]

Another fond "Mother's" gambling memory I have...
There was a well known road player everyone knew as Jr. His real name was Doug Young. Just a young kid who looked to be in his early 20's with a goofy haircut that had hair hanging down over one eye. You'd think this kid could beat no one...half the time he had to borrow a cue from someone if he had action. Truth be told the kid was an absolute champion. I'd seen him beat BJ a year earlier in Atlanta. Nobody else really knew who the kid was. He had kind of found a home at Mothers and was hanging out there daily, jumping on any action. He beat everybody that tried him and beat several quality players that were passing through. Wasn't long before the entire room knew that no one we had (Brady, Ron Parks) could beat him. Jr. had an issue keeping any cash in his pocket so he always need a stakehorse...and everyone in the room jumped at the opportunity. To make a longer story shorter...one Mon. night during our weekly tournament there was this other skinny, red headed kid who couldn't seem to beat anyone in the tournament. Well this guy (I knew him) would never play on his own money so a friend and I gave him several $1000 to call Jr. out. Sure enough...Jr. had to go around the room...after he had his 15 different financial supporters together they had enough cash to match our post up. They agreed to play 9 ball, 7 ahead for the entire amount. Absolutely everyone thought I was a nut putting this red haired guy into action against Jr. Well Jr. played real well and got to 5 ahead often, looking tired with dark circles around his eyes as he laughed it up with his supporters. About 4 or 5am though things changed a bit. My player was sitting straight up in the chair, drinking bottled water, rubbing the wrinkles out of his shirt...looking very bright eyed. Jr. looked like he wanted just to lay on the next table and nap. Well it only took about 45 minutes for my player to go from 5 down to 7 ahead. Laughing as we divided up our winnings...I shouted to the other camp..."my man plays Efren & Parica all the time, did you really think Jr. would put any fear in him?" Wasn't until a few days later that the crowd found out my player was...Max Eberle. Ahh...the good old days...I really miss Mother's. I get kind of misty eyed every time I drive by the vacant field where the building used to stand. Damn city and damn rail train.

 

[Rickw]

A friend of mine, Phil Nobel, was staking me to play Bucktooth this time that you're talking about. Five to three and the break is the way we were playing. I won the only set we played and Phil quit...not me. Phil gave me all the money which was $1500.00 just to be nice, because we were good friends.
I did play awfully well in that set. Thanks for reminding me of a pleasant memory.

I must add, Grady, that Tooth was being his typical self talking loud and being somewhat abrasive throughout the match and you, on the other hand, were the consumate gentleman. I was very impressed with your character! It is always nice to see someone in this game with excellent manners at the table!

 

[Rickw]

Early 70's, Billy Incardona giving Bucktooth the 6 in Bucktooth's room in Castro Valley. The stakes kept jumping around, so I'm not sure what they played for or exactly how much was won, but Bucktooth took it down, as he normally did. He played a LOT better than people thought he did.

I agree with your statement that Tooth played a lot better than people thought. I got to watch him play quite a bit at his room in Manteca about 10 years ago.

I saw him play one-handed and he's the best one-handed player that I ever got to see. I've heard that Ronnie was awesome but I never got to see him play one-handed. I did see the Monk (Warren Costanza) play one-handed and he was good but I would have put my house up for Tooth to win in a heads up match one-handed and you could pick the game.

 

[jay helfert]

The rest of us remember this in 2000, Jay.

Walden vs. Cooney Report, 2000 DCC

Fred

Fred,

Pretty sure 2003 was a repeat match up for more money. 50K each.

 

[Gerald]

One I'll always remember was watching Cardone give Bucktooth the Six ball at the Stardust in 1972.
Everyone wanted to bet on Tooth at first, but after Billy caught his gear, the betting swung the other way.
Billy ran out from everywhere. It was the era of the pushout and Tooth would roll out for a long rail bank and Billy would swish it and run out. I don't think he missed a ball for the last five or six hours. He busted Tooth for 25K, playing for three to five hundred a game. Big, big dough back then.
It was the last time Bucky was ever broke. He went home to Oakland and made millions in the diamond business and manufacturing furniture.

The one I would have liked to have seen was Richies memorable 9-Ball match with Billy Johnson (Wade Crane) in Atlanta. No one could beat Richie back then (the 70's) and they played for several days, back and forth. In the end, Ronnie told me Richie won a little gas money (his words), but Richie said Billy was the best 9-Ball player in the world.

One other interesting match up was Danny D. playing Rich Geiler ten ahead for 20K in the 80's in Reno. Geiler got to the hill a couple of times and Danny made a couple of great run-outs under pressure (we were broke if he lost). They played all night and about 7AM Danny got him.

A great One Pocket match was when Ronnie played Danny in Phoenix for 20K in 1988. It was Ronnie's last hurrah as a top player and he really prepared for the match. They both played great and Ronnie won the match in the fifth and final set. It took three days to play. Fortunately, we got that one on tape.

More recently the marathon One Pocket match for 100K between Jack Cooney and James Walden in 2003 at the DCC in Louisville. They played either eight or ten ahead. I should remember because I was in for a few thou. It went on day and night (with short breaks) for three or four days, before Jack prevailed.

My own opinion, in Jack's prime, Cliff would have been an unhappy camper.
Only Efren and Ronnie were in his league. Of course, he rarely showed his true speed. Didn't have too. The first time I saw Jack really have to play was against Monk (he may have been giving him a ball 8-7). They were betting like 500 a game and Jack played One Pocket as good as I ever saw it played that night. His Cue ball control was the best I ever saw, before or since.

Watched Cooney and Toby match up at HT. The game was either 8 or 10 ahead. The 1st night Toby was 6 ahead and it looked as if Jack had no chance. I had to leave early in the morning and on the way out I saw "Little Al" Romero and commented that it looked as if Jack was out of the match. Al shook his head and said "Jack is a warhorse and will come back" Sure enough 3 days later Jack had the money and it was a substantial amount. He hung around HT for a few years and it became apparent that he was a master of playing in whatever gear was necessary and rating his game to match his competetion.

 

[gromulan]

One of the best matches I saw was when Jack Cooney and Cliff Joyner played in Atlanta in 2000, right after the DCC. They played 3 sets for $25,000 each and I think the spots were 11-8/10-8 for set one, 10-8/9-8 for set two and 8-7 for set three. Can't remember for sure.

It wasn't necessarily 'great' pool per se, but it was awfully fun to sweat, especially since they were playing ahead sets and it went on for at least 4 days. When you were finished work for the day you could drive over to the pool room, eat some dinner, and sweat the match for 4 hours or so. Cooney ended up winning all three sets. Later the guy backing Cliff flew Parica in to play Cooney, with Jack getting slightly more weight this time, and Cooney won again. Jack had a good year that year.

 

[huckster]

One of the best matches I saw was when Jack Cooney and Cliff Joyner played in Atlanta in 2000, right after the DCC. They played 3 sets for $25,000 each and I think the spots were 11-8/10-8 for set one, 10-8/9-8 for set two and 8-7 for set three. Can't remember for sure.

It wasn't necessarily 'great' pool per se, but it was awfully fun to sweat, especially since they were playing ahead sets and it went on for at least 4 days. When you were finished work for the day you could drive over to the pool room, eat some dinner, and sweat the match for 4 hours or so. Cooney ended up winning all three sets. Later the guy backing Cliff flew Parica in to play Cooney, with Jack getting slightly more weight this time, and Cooney won again. Jack had a good year that year.

If Jack won getting 8-7 I would be a little leary of setting up anymore games. I backed Cliff for a year and Jack can not win at 8 to 7 unless....

 

[Eric.]

If Jack won getting 8-7 I would be a little leary of setting up anymore games. I backed Cliff for a year and Jack can not win at 8 to 7 unless....

...there was some "business" done behind the scenes. Hence, the problem of being a stakehorse.



Eric

 

[Ktown D]

If Jack won getting 8-7 I would be a little leary of setting up anymore games. I backed Cliff for a year and Jack can not win at 8 to 7 unless....

I hope you are not saying Cliff was dumping. It's hard to unring that bell.



I'd hate to see a thread about I saw so-and-so dump playing so-and-so.
That could start a flame that NYCPD would have trouble with.

 

[huckster]

I hope you are not saying Cliff was dumping. It's hard to unring that bell.



I'd hate to see a thread about I saw so-and-so dump playing so-and-so.
That could start a flame that NYCPD would have trouble with.

Like I said I backed Cliff for a year and he maxmimizes his profit in each match. Cliff is a good dude just a terrible money manager, game maker, and you will always question some of the results of his matches......

 

[Ktown D]

Like I said I backed Cliff for a year and he maxmimizes his profit in each match. Cliff is a good dude just a terrible money manager, game maker, and you will always question some of the results of his matches......

I was just ribbing. I have known Cliff as an acquaintance for a while and you are right he is a good guy or has been to me anyway. I have never let my opinions be known about his matchups, I just watch as an unbiased spectator. I never sweat the rail when he is in action due primarily to the stories I have heard form people such as yourself. I figure as long as it doesn't cost me anything I can continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Joseph Ortega]

i know that grady and efren have played one pocket before. how did that go? i also know that it was before efren realy mastered the game. just wondering bc it seems that i can sense a hint of jealousy in grady's demeanor in speaking of efren. he always mentions the buddy hall incident at reds. it is also known that buddy never stepped up agian. he always talks about himself as being the best 1h player in his prime. well how would he match up with the best 1h player EVER!?!?