What is the dfference between Predator Pre-cat 314, Cat 314 and 314-2?

[TheThaiger]

I always thought Pred shafts were supposed to play firm/solid. Then I bought one. I have to say, the hit is INCREDIBLY soft - not what i was expecting at all. I'm not sure if it's the butt (a pechauer) or the tip (everest) but all i do know is it hits like blancmange. Very disappointing indeed.

 

[DrOnePocket]

I have had all of them and many of each one. The pre cat like I currently use has a certain "pop" to it. Its kind of hard to describe. The hit is a bit softer but not much. The old ones that had more laminates and the longer ferule really play good.

Mine is a plain black collar and 3/8-10 if anyone wants it. Pm me. Im not playing much these days and its just sitting in my old butterfly instroke collecting dust

 

[manwon]

OK, let's separate the wheat from the chaff.

There is no difference btwn the 'Cat' shafts and the pre-cat shafts.
The only change made was the decal. Both where made this side of the pond. All Gen2 shafts are made in China.
Predator added the 'Cat' for greater visual exposure of their logo and product identity. The 314 in the decal is larger as well.

'McChen's' statement is accurate. Thanx Gary.
"the first gen 314 used something called isoplast for the ferrules. the 2nd gen 314's used titan initially, then switched to something called maxlite."
It's also true that the length of the ferrule, from the Gen1 to the Gen2 was shortened. Plastic weighs more than wood. Reduce the front-end mass and the result is reduced deflection.

All Gen1 shafts are constructed the same. Some of the very first Predator shafts were constructed using 6 pie-splice construction and some were constructed using 12 pie-splice construction though each had a very short production run and should be considered just part of the progression of the construction design. The pre-cat, the cat and the current Gen2 shafts all share 10 pie-splice construction.

This old chestnut is a favorite of mine and is perpetuated by nothing more than guessing or hearsay (something I heard). "foam insert".
There is no foam core. There is no foam insert. Is a 'sticky' in order?
All Predator shafts are hollow for 5" from the tip down and filled with nothing but air.

As has been mentioned, the Gen2 shafts have incorporated the use of a phenolic mtrl. at the joint of the shaft. I have mixed feelings on this matter. I'm not against the use of phenolic, I use it in my own cues. I think it's a wonderful idea and allows for a better hit when used properly.
I do believe that the shaft should be 'banded', at the joint, with a phenolic ring rather than relying solely on the phenolic insert to keep the shaft intact. This is JMO.

I'd like to address the 1 stated issue of the clients deco ring "falling right off". This was the 'band' that I was speaking of, the deco-ring. IMO, it makes the joint-end of the shaft considerably stronger. It prevents the pie splices from separating when side-loading the joint.

Let me also state that I do all of the custom work for the world's largest Predator dealership and have built, to mate & match, well over 1,000 Predator shafts. I have never seen the shaft deco-ring on a Predator shaft fall off. That's not to say that it didn't happen to the poster who made the statement.
I just gotta figure that 1 out of 1 million isn't too bad of a track record.

I would welcome any questions that you may have on Predator shafts as my greater concern is that of accurate information. No more WMD theories, OK?

Thanks for your reply KJ, I was certain you could clear this up accurately.

 

[DrOnePocket]

Kj

I know you see thousands of predator shafts but I think you are mistaken. About two months ago I had 2 older pre cat shafts and one had 8 splices and the other had 10. Also the ferule lenghts were different. It doesn't appear that any work has been done to either.

Personally, I think the quality of wood is the major difference. The older shafts all hit good and seem to stay straight longer. But i'm no predator expert

 

[poolplayer2093]

i had used predators since they became available. through karen corr and directly. i had multiple of pre cat 314 only, 314 with cat and 314-2. at one point i had 4 shafts sent back. 2 with ferrule problems. one that literally split down the middle (which was hollow until about 5 inches above the joint insert which had a light blue almost white foam inside and another that had a cracked ferrule that broke off during a break. predator replaced each and every shaft at no charge other then shipping with the new 314-2 models as per the person i spoke to "previous models were structurally faulty and would be replaced with newer models only.

so there's 5 people i've heard of seeing the foam insert so far

 

[manwon]

so there's 5 people i've heard of seeing the foam insert so far

I have never seen any foam and I have replaced ferrules on at least 36+ shafts over the last 6 years. I have to agree with KJ, I doubt anyone else has as much experience as he has had when dealing with these products. But I suppose that getting the correct information doesn't really matter, when we have so many experts throwing in their two cents who have never worked on these shafts. It really gets kinda old though and it is also why many of the real experts don't post here on this forum anymore it just doesn't make sense to give people the correct information and have others with limited or no knowledge at all argue a useless point!!!!!:banghead:

JIMO

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have never seen any foam and I have replaced ferrules on at least 36+ shafts over the last 6 years. I have to agree with KJ, I doubt anyone else has as much experience as he has had when dealing with these products. But I suppose that getting the correct information doesn't really matter, when we have so many experts throwing in their two cents who have never worked on these shafts. It really gets kinda old though and it is also why many of the real experts don't post here on this forum anymore it just doesn't make sense to give people the correct information and have others with limited or no knowledge at all argue a useless point!!!!!:banghead:

JIMO

i've had friends break their shafts and told me they saw some sort of foam in the shaft.

hay you don't like me, i get that. but i'm going to pass on what i heard just like anyone else. you don't need years of experience to see the inside of a broken shaft.

how dare anyone have a different experience than an expert. i'm sorry i don't share your elitist attitude

 

[manwon]

i've had friends break their shafts and told me they saw some sort of foam in the shaft.

hay you don't like me, i get that. but i'm going to pass on what i heard just like anyone else. you don't need years of experience to see the inside of a broken shaft.

how dare anyone have a different experience than an expert. i'm sorry i don't share your elitist attitude

This has nothing to do with liking or disliking you on any level, and there is nothing elitist about my attitude I am only stating the facts, I am not giving anyone second hand knowledge on a subject like you are. If that offends you so be it, but my point was and still is second hand information doesn't equal first hand experience.

Nothing has changed JIMO

 

[poolplayer2093]

This has nothing to do with liking or disliking you on any level, and there is nothing elitist about my attitude I am only stating the facts, I am not giving anyone second hand knowledge on a subject like you are. If that offends you so be it, but my point was and still is second hand information doesn't equal first hand experience.

Nothing has changed JIMO

ok you're right. my friends were making it up. so was the other guy that posted the same thing. nobody who hasn't done work on thousands of predators has any idea what's inside them.

you ought to make a list of az'rs who's information is worth hearing...

"many of the real experts don't post here on this forum anymore" there's nothing elitist about that comment at all

 

[manwon]

ok you're right. my friends were making it up. so was the other guy that posted the same thing. nobody who hasn't done work on thousands of predators has any idea what's inside them.

you ought to make a list of az'rs who's information is worth hearing...

"many of the real experts don't post here on this forum anymore" there's nothing elitist about that comment at all

I am sorry if my comments hurt you so much, it was not my intention to do so, but I will stand by what I have said the facts do not create confusion and Urban legends only second hand information does that and it is really a shame.

JIMO

 

[poolplayer2093]

I am sorry if my comments hurt you so much, it was not my intention to do so, but I will stand by what I have said the facts do not create confusion and Urban legends only second hand information does that and it is really a shame.

JIMO

it didn't hurt my feelings. i'm just seeing more and more of this elitism here on the forum. more and more people are starting in with that stuff every day. it's bad enough everyone's a cue snob and assumes if you're not using a sugartree or a southwest you might as well not even be playing pool now only certain peoples opinions count. only cue builders and cue snobs opinions count these days. i know plenty of people that've seen all sorts of shafts broken. you don't have to be a cue maker to see the inside of a cue

to me the info from both sources is coming from someone who says they've seen it themselves. of course my buddy/buddies was only talking about the 1 broken shaft

lol, hurt my feelings. this is the internet. ain't nothing being said on here that's going to hurt my feelings

 

[daimion]

to be honest i dont care what anyone has to say negatively or positively about this subject. the OP asked peoples opinions. i gave mine. what ISNT my opinion is the FACT that the shaft that split down the middle INDEED DEFINATELY had a light blue almost white foam 5 or so inches above the joint insert/collar. and the rest up to the ferrule was hollow.

i will reiterate this shaft was one of the first 10 piece shafts predator had released. it was ordered with karen corr and julie kelly whom are personal friends of mine out of pete fuscos pool room in PA.

i respect any fact/opinion of a professional whom has worked on thousands of anything. but the simple fact of the matter is i will vehemently argue with anyone who claims there was never any kind of foam at the bottom of the precat 314 shafts. as i have seen it with my own eyes. along with pete/jimmy fusco whom are family friends, allen hopkins at the valley forge expo , and the predator reps at said show. name dropping is idiotic but im no pro so i guess my opinion and known facts are worthless. but several close friends whom are all world champions have seen this with their own eyes. heres to hoping maybe their word is worth a bit more then mine.

to anyone who has seen/been told things by truthful and respectable people. continue to believe. you know what you know, and those trying to displace said knowledge obviously have made a mistake , and more likely then less have a hard time admitting/owning up to said mistake.

kudos 2 everyone

 

[poolplayer2093]

to be honest i dont care what anyone has to say negatively or positively about this subject. the OP asked peoples opinions. i gave mine. what ISNT my opinion is the FACT that the shaft that split down the middle INDEED DEFINATELY had a light blue almost white foam 5 or so inches above the joint insert/collar. and the rest up to the ferrule was hollow.

i will reiterate this shaft was one of the first 10 piece shafts predator had released. it was ordered with karen corr and julie kelly whom are personal friends of mine out of pete fuscos pool room in PA.

i respect any fact/opinion of a professional whom has worked on thousands of anything. but the simple fact of the matter is i will vehemently argue with anyone who claims there was never any kind of foam at the bottom of the precat 314 shafts. as i have seen it with my own eyes. along with pete/jimmy fusco whom are family friends, allen hopkins at the valley forge expo , and the predator reps at said show. name dropping is idiotic but im no pro so i guess my opinion and known facts are worthless. but several close friends whom are all world champions have seen this with their own eyes. heres to hoping maybe their word is worth a bit more then mine.

to anyone who has seen/been told things by truthful and respectable people. continue to believe. you know what you know, and those trying to displace said knowledge obviously have made a mistake , and more likely then less have a hard time admitting/owning up to said mistake.

kudos 2 everyone

slow down there turbo. manwon says you're not an expert enough to say stuff like that so you ought to leave the explaining to people who's knowledge matters....:banghead:..lol

the guy who told me about this was the first guy who ever showed me the basics of how to play pool. he was the first guy i looked up to on the pool table. he always jacked way up and drove the cue into the table when he tried to masse. one day he shot down into t he table too hard and broke his shaft. several people told me about the foam inside but apparently they weren't cue makers so there's no way they were right.

all this elitism almost makes it hard to believe regular joes might know what they're talking about too

 

[daimion]

ive done what i set out to do initially. repsond to the OP question and input my knowledge. (as little and inexperienced as it must be by others standards)
it seems it has become quite hijacked though hah.

 

[poolplayer2093]

ive done what i set out to do initially. repsond to the OP question and input my knowledge. (as little and inexperienced as it must be by others standards)
it seems it has become quite hijacked though hah.

that's what i did too. but since we're not in the cool clique our opinions don't matter. we're not the experts.

too much cliquish BS on the forum these days. all the elitism is getting out of hand. we're not in the in crowd so we might as well not reply. only a few opinions matter apparently

 

[McChen]

Kj

I know you see thousands of predator shafts but I think you are mistaken. About two months ago I had 2 older pre cat shafts and one had 8 splices and the other had 10. Also the ferule lenghts were different. It doesn't appear that any work has been done to either.

Personally, I think the quality of wood is the major difference. The older shafts all hit good and seem to stay straight longer. But i'm no predator expert

there were some early experimental predator shafts that had varying number of splices. some of the initial experiments didn't have any splices, it was a one piece shaft. as well as different ferrule lengths, i believe they had a classic 1" length on one of them. i don't know exactly how many of these kinds of shafts were made, but they were onesy-twosy prototypes or made in very small batches.

to clear up the foam thing....the predator shafts do have a a small foam plug at the top of the hole. it is simply to prevent debris from getting trapped in the bore during the manufacturing process. it is very short and does not fill the entire bore, it just caps the very top of the hole. this little plug has caused mistakenly a lot of people to think the shaft is "foam filled"

 

[manwon]

to be honest i dont care what anyone has to say negatively or positively about this subject. the OP asked peoples opinions. i gave mine. what ISNT my opinion is the FACT that the shaft that split down the middle INDEED DEFINATELY had a light blue almost white foam 5 or so inches above the joint insert/collar. and the rest up to the ferrule was hollow.

i will reiterate this shaft was one of the first 10 piece shafts predator had released. it was ordered with karen corr and julie kelly whom are personal friends of mine out of pete fuscos pool room in PA.

i respect any fact/opinion of a professional whom has worked on thousands of anything. but the simple fact of the matter is i will vehemently argue with anyone who claims there was never any kind of foam at the bottom of the precat 314 shafts. as i have seen it with my own eyes. along with pete/jimmy fusco whom are family friends, allen hopkins at the valley forge expo , and the predator reps at said show. name dropping is idiotic but im no pro so i guess my opinion and known facts are worthless. but several close friends whom are all world champions have seen this with their own eyes. heres to hoping maybe their word is worth a bit more then mine.

to anyone who has seen/been told things by truthful and respectable people. continue to believe. you know what you know, and those trying to displace said knowledge obviously have made a mistake , and more likely then less have a hard time admitting/owning up to said mistake.

kudos 2 everyone

My comments were not directed to you, I am certain that they experimented with all kinds of things in the beginning and I never said I did not believe your comments. My post may have been a little strong, and I understand how it could make you think you were being told you information was worthless, I apologize for that it was not my intention. I got a little angry because I felt that Poolplayer was intentionally stirring the pot like he has done so many times before, I mean Drama is his or her middle name.

Again I apologize to you and I hope you except it because it is sincere.

 

[daimion]

no need for apology. but since its offered ill accept:thumbup:
whatever had transpired is done. we've all voiced our opinions
wether they were taken wholeheartedly or not, they were still absorbed.
and at the end of the day thats all one can really ask for.

 

[poolplayer2093]

My comments were not directed to you, I am certain that they experimented with all kinds of things in the beginning and I never said I did not believe your comments. My post may have been a little strong, and I understand how it could make you think you were being told you information was worthless, I apologize for that it was not my intention. I got a little angry because I felt that Poolplayer was intentionally stirring the pot like he has done so many times before, I mean Drama is his or her middle name.

Again I apologize to you and I hope you except it because it is sincere.

i jump in and BS in thread that are meaningless anyway. threads about equipment i'm always straight up in. think about it man. why would i lie about pool equipment? you can't find one comment from me about billiard equipment where i "stird the pot" because i don't bs about billiards stuff. i keep my goof off posts for the overly serious "change the world one thread at a time" type guys in the NPR forum

there're dozens of ugly waitresses that are justifiably angry with me but people that're angry at me on here always trips me out. i come on here all the time and talk equipment, shots, etc... without bsing. i'm straight up about pool. some people can't get that i guess

 

[KJ Cues]

It's not that you deliberately lie about pool equipment.
It's that you offer your personal opinion which is usually based in speculation, guesses and hearsay rather than fact. Guesses and opinions don't hold a candle to fact.
If you have personal, first-hand knowledge of Predator shafts being foam-filled, I'd love to see it. Show me a pic. I'm not too old to learn.
Hearsay doesn't cut it and I don't care where it comes from. Pro, preacher or pauper, it makes no difference, it's still hearsay.

I believe that DrOnePocket's assertion that I was mistaken stems from the fact that I didn't mention the 8 pie-splice version. I don't consider that to be a mistake but rather a deliberate omission. I've never seen one.
I try to present accurate and factual information that I can support, based on my first-hand knowledge and experience. I don't waste my time, or the reader's, with speculation, guesses or hearsay.

Look, I don't work for Predator, nor was I in the lab for every version of the shaft(s) that went through R&D. I'm pretty sure that some versions were built that only a hand-full of people were privy to. The vast majority of these shafts never made it to full-blown mass production though a few may have made their way out into the world for hands-on evaluation by actual players.
The information that I have provided applies to the vast majority of the shafts that were built for production and are out in the world today.
The 1-sies and 2-sies, in my mind anyway, aren't worth mentioning because there just aren't that many of them.