What is the Difference between A-D players

[cookie man]

justadub:

But don't you know that 9-ball *IS* pool, and pool *IS* 9-ball? Afterall, when someone asks if you'd like to "play a game of pool," and they go to rack for you, you know the rack you're going to get is automatically (hard-wired) to be diamond-shaped, right? And you know that no matter the game, the word "pool" MEANS to shoot the balls in rotation, right?


-Sean

But is it "real pool", and do i have to play on a team, and do i have to have a captain, and do i have to play against girls on a bar box, and do we have to have a point system,lol. Morning fun.

 

[cookie man]

On the contrary, creativity can be HUGE in pool. "Consistency" simply isn't the lone attribute in running 100 balls. I know people would like to think so but that's simply not the case. You have to find patterns, make decisions, address problems. If we were bowling, we could talk all day about consistency. This is pool and what fascinates people about pool more than anything is that yes, you need to be consistent but there's a lot more to it.

Jude, your right. Part of my love for this game is that I never stop learning, I probably learn something every week(not that I remember it) but it feels so good to be in a tough situation and have something creative that you learned from the past pop in your head. The best players always do a little something extra to win.

 

[sfleinen]

But is it "real pool", and do i have to play on a team, and do i have to have a captain, and do i have to play against girls on a bar box, and do we have to have a point system,lol. Morning fun.

Dave:

According to the WPA (Wisdom from Pocketpoint's Arse...nal), the answer to all those is a resounding "NO." Shame on you -- you're a league player, and league players of "real pool" should know this!

-Sean

 

[cleary]

WOW :clapping:

That is the best so far how about somebody breaking it down even more.

D+ C+ B+ & A+ open / Pro

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe

C-Player
will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one rack in a typical race to 7
avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
mixed results when playing safe
inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

B-Player
Able to run 1 to 3 racks
avg. run is 5-7 balls
with ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times
most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit easily 2 out of 3 times
a typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game

A-Player
will string 2 to 3 racks
avg. ball run, 7-9
with ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times
typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.

OPEN-Players
average 8+ balls
string racks together more than once in a match
is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning
typical inning will end in excellent safety or win

Tony, one thing to keep in mind is these things don't always apply to everyone. For instance, on the tristate where you play as a C, not all of the C players play the same. You could call some underrated and some overrated, but the fact of the matter is, they have different skills in different areas that put them in that class.

There are C players who do not run 3-5 balls consistently, but they find a way to win at that handicap.

The "+" is where they put people who are too strong for their class but too weak for the next class. A lot of it is a head game. When you get bumped it messes with your head. Going from a C to a B is a big step, so on our tour, they find middle ground. So a C player still does a lot of D things. But can some B things. But a C+ Does more B things than C things but just not ready for the B class.

I'm a D+ on the tristate. I do more C things than D things, and can black out and run a rack out, but I can't win a tourny. I have more knowledge than talent. Most of the time don't even finish in the top half of the field. Its hard to handicap people who play at D, C or sometimes low B speeds. Because they change daily and it all depends on how much they have been practicing.

 

[doitforthegame]

Tony, one thing to keep in mind is these things don't always apply to everyone. For instance, on the tristate where you play as a C, not all of the C players play the same. You could call some underrated and some overrated, but the fact of the matter is, they have different skills in different areas that put them in that class.

There are C players who do not run 3-5 balls consistently, but they find a way to win at that handicap.

The "+" is where they put people who are too strong for their class but too weak for the next class. A lot of it is a head game. When you get bumped it messes with your head. Going from a C to a B is a big step, so on our tour, they find middle ground. So a C player still does a lot of D things. But can some B things. But a C+ Does more B things than C things but just not ready for the B class.

I'm a D+ on the tristate. I do more C things than D things, and can black out and run a rack out, but I can't win a tourny. I have more knowledge than talent. Most of the time don't even finish in the top half of the field. Its hard to handicap people who play at D, C or sometimes low B speeds. Because they change daily and it all depends on how much they have been practicing.

I broke down each division into A1 A2 A3 A4; B1 B2 B3 B4; etc. For every two rating separation it would require 1 one game spot. In other words a B2 would give a B4 one game to seven. A B4 would get 3 games from an A2. I used to have a program that would do all the ratings based on game performance, but I lost track of it long ago.

Bob

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Thanks Mr. Cambell
I remember reading your article which was published in "All About Pool" magazine in 1999 and liked it so much, I just had to share it. I first shared in on the old RSB newsgroup service and on the Billiards Digest Cue Chalk Board (CCB) in the early 2000s.

Your handicap description has been a very good point of reference. I keep a copy of it for players wanting to know what their rating is.

If you can, would you please reprint the article in full? Or would you send me a copy?

Thanks

I broke down each division into A1 A2 A3 A4; B1 B2 B3 B4; etc. For every two rating separation it would require 1 one game spot. In other words a B2 would give a B4 one game to seven. A B4 would get 3 games from an A2. I used to have a program that would do all the ratings based on game performance, but I lost track of it long ago.

Bob

 

[doitforthegame]

Thanks Mr. Cambell
I remember reading your article which was published in "All About Pool" magazine in 1999 and liked it so much, I just had to share it. I first shared in on the old RSB newsgroup service and on the Billiards Digest Cue Chalk Board (CCB) in the early 2000s.

Your handicap description has been a very good point of reference. I keep a copy of it for players wanting to know what their rating is.

If you can, would you please reprint the article in full? Or would you send me a copy?

Thanks

Hi Tom- I lost all of my back copies of AAP when my garage/storage area was flooded. Lost a bunch of "Do It For The Game" books as well. So, all of that info is gone unless any of the readers have copies. Actually I think Mike H was starting to collect some of the old issues. He might even have a copy of the article.

RSB....the good old days.....

Bob

 

[cleary]

Another thing to think about is the fact that anyone can hit a gear and overplay. Sometimes the balls just fall right or you are just playing out of your mind. If you ever have thought, "did I just break and run" and you really cannot tell if you did or not... you are playing great. Not even thinking about what you are doing, just on autopilot. Its a great feeling.

I think the only true test of a handicap is how often do they win. If they finishing in the middle of the pack every tournament with an occasional top 10 and an occasional 2 and out, they are handicapped fairly correctly no matter how many balls they run or dont run.

If they are finishing top 10 consistently, they should go up. If they are at the bottom of the pack consistently, they should go down.

 

[ignomirello]

Thanks Guys

:thumbup: Thanks Tom, Bob & cleary !

But I would still like a complete breakdown so we could all be on the same page.

This way a room owner would have something to rate his players at.

So when a room owner rates a player there would be some consistency between room owners. So this way the tournament director can do a better job with trusting ratings from room owners.

There is nothing worse than taking a room owners word to find out he was played or just his opinion is different than everybody else’s.

 

[cleary]

t I would still like a complete breakdown so we could all be on the same page.

I'm not sure you will get any better info than what's already been said in this thread. Handicap everyone as ABCD and adjust a half letter accordingly when needed.

 

[doitforthegame]

:thumbup: Thanks Tom, Bob & cleary !

But I would still like a complete breakdown so we could all be on the same page.

This way a room owner would have something to rate his players at.

So when a room owner rates a player there would be some consistency between room owners. So this way the tournament director can do a better job with trusting ratings from room owners.

There is nothing worse than taking a room owners word to find out he was played or just his opinion is different than everybody else’s.

Well your intent is in the right place but it will never happen. Too much ego and control involved. Never happen.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Good point.

10 pool players in the same room will pick someone to hate quicker than someone to respect.

I run handicap tournament and someone is always complaining they are rated too high and can't win, or complaining that another player is rated too low and wins too much.

When you ask for specifics you always get the same answer... 'well I'm just saying' he just feels it is unfair.

I have to rank players from 1-32 every week. Number 1 players is the best of the field, #2 is second best on down to the D player at #32.

New players that I don't know, get put in the middle. If that is to high, I'll adjust the next time they play. If it is too low, I'll adjust the next time they play. I've had success with this.

The regular players enjoy the format. I pay ties and sometimes in a 32 player field I will have 10-16 players cash. No one moves up in their rankings unless they are playing better. Cashing is not the only measure of improvement. The players that start at a C rating can be moved to a C+ or even a B- within a few months. Their skill level does increase. I keep an eye on everyone's game.
No matter what I do, I will always get complaints. I acknowledge them and make a mental note of who said it and about whom. Keeping it on a non-personal level is difficult, but that is part of being a TD.

Well your intent is in the right place but it will never happen. Too much ego and control involved. Never happen.

 

[cookie man]

Do I constantly pick on you?

Did I mention your name or do you have a guilty conscience?

 

[cookie man]

Another thing to think about is the fact that anyone can hit a gear and overplay. Sometimes the balls just fall right or you are just playing out of your mind. If you ever have thought, "did I just break and run" and you really cannot tell if you did or not... you are playing great. Not even thinking about what you are doing, just on autopilot. Its a great feeling.

I think the only true test of a handicap is how often do they win. If they finishing in the middle of the pack every tournament with an occasional top 10 and an occasional 2 and out, they are handicapped fairly correctly no matter how many balls they run or dont run.

If they are finishing top 10 consistently, they should go up. If they are at the bottom of the pack consistently, they should go down.

So middle of the pack and winning no money is rated fairly? I have to disagree, in order to play in a tournament the player should at least have a chance of getting in the money or winning, or there handicap should be adjusted.

 

[doitforthegame]

So middle of the pack and winning no money is rated fairly? I have to disagree, in order to play in a tournament the player should at least have a chance of getting in the money or winning, or there handicap should be adjusted.

Disagree- the handicap is meant to give a player some opportunity to play against a higher rated player. It is not meant to be the vehicle to determine where they place in a tournament. i know tons of guys that were high-c's or b's that played in my room that never cashed in my tournaments. That has as much to do with the players "mental skills" as it does for his physical skills and ability. See, this is why people have these imagined issues with the handicap. The handicap doesn't shoot for you. You have to knock in the balls. If you haven't got it in the gut, the handicap isn't going to help.

 

[cookie man]

Disagree- the handicap is meant to give a player some opportunity to play against a higher rated player. It is not meant to be the vehicle to determine where they place in a tournament. i know tons of guys that were high-c's or b's that played in my room that never cashed in my tournaments. That has as much to do with the players "mental skills" as it does for his physical skills and ability. See, this is why people have these imagined issues with the handicap. The handicap doesn't shoot for you. You have to knock in the balls. If you haven't got it in the gut, the handicap isn't going to help.

Talking about your handicap for how you normally play. If you rate me a C and I have a good day but I finish in the middle of the pack, then my rating might need a little adjusting. Point being, middle of the pack, doesn't mean my rating is correct. "mental skills" are the edge the real good players have, and they didn't get them from finishing in the middle of the pack. You learn more by winning than losing.

 

[cleary]

So middle of the pack and winning no money is rated fairly? I have to disagree, in order to play in a tournament the player should at least have a chance of getting in the money or winning, or there handicap should be adjusted.

Im saying, if they are cashing every week then something is up. Of course they should have a chance to cash and win. But you should average right in the middle of the pack. If there are always 50 players, you should average around 25th. Some 1sts and 2nds and 8ths... and some 48ths. It should all even out. If it doesn't, an adjustment is needed one way or the other.

 

[doitforthegame]

Talking about your handicap for how you normally play. If you rate me a C and I have a good day but I finish in the middle of the pack, then my rating might need a little adjusting. Point being, middle of the pack, doesn't mean my rating is correct. "mental skills" are the edge the real good players have, and they didn't get them from finishing in the middle of the pack. You learn more by winning than losing.

Yes- I agree with that. If you have a good day and play better than average you should do well. I also agree that a guy that cashes 3 weeks in a row, should not be the same rating as he was 3 weeks ago. He should go up. BUT- if you don't cash 3 weeks in a row it doesn't mean that you will go down. In my book, unless there are truly extenuating circumstances, if you attained a certain level you stay there. You might go down one level (ie a c2 ti a c3). That would mean that you would get 1 game (in my system) from the c1 where you ordinarily played him even.

 

[cookie man]

Yes- I agree with that. If you have a good day and play better than average you should do well. I also agree that a guy that cashes 3 weeks in a row, should not be the same rating as he was 3 weeks ago. He should go up. BUT- if you don't cash 3 weeks in a row it doesn't mean that you will go down. In my book, unless there are truly extenuating circumstances, if you attained a certain level you stay there. You might go down one level (ie a c2 ti a c3). That would mean that you would get 1 game (in my system) from the c1 where you ordinarily played him even.

Alright makes sense. Question around md. a couple tourneys have been run charging different amounts for different levels, say c player $50 entry and pro $100 entry. I don't think this makes much sense as there is no handicap and the c player while not paying as much to enter has no real chance to beat the pro. Is this normal around the country?

 

[doitforthegame]

Alright makes sense. Question around md. a couple tourneys have been run charging different amounts for different levels, say c player $50 entry and pro $100 entry. I don't think this makes much sense as there is no handicap and the c player while not paying as much to enter has no real chance to beat the pro. Is this normal around the country?

They do it here in the northeast. Well, they did when we still actually had pool rooms and an active pool tournament scene. Now we've got I think 5 maybe 6 pool rooms. But, I digress....I agree with you 100%. Even if you made the entry fee $5 and the Pro $500 it wouldn't make any difference.