What is the purpose of a piloted joint?
- Thread starter alstl
- Start date
It is used to align (center) the shaft on the joint.
As Sheldon says....
Many will argue otherwise but my feeling is simply that of Arnot's.
They look pretty cool tho, have to admit that.
I own an older model Schon sp-49 or sl-5 (they look identical), not Runde era but early 90's. I've had four different shafts for it and about a month ago I purchased a shaft with Schon on the joint collar. My understanding is Schon only made that shaft one year during the early 90's.
When I joint the cue and I get to the pilot, unlike the other shafts I had for this Schon, you can feel the friction for the last couple of turns. I don't know whether it is the tighter pilot, the weight of the shaft, or the different tip a wizard, but this shaft plays noticeably better than the other shafts I have had.
I play mostly equal offense when practicing at home and I keep track of my scores and there is no doubt this shaft plays significantly better than the others I have had. I see people sometimes saying the difference in playability from one cue to another is all hype. They are simply wrong.
When I joint the cue and I get to the pilot, unlike the other shafts I had for this Schon, you can feel the friction for the last couple of turns. I don't know whether it is the tighter pilot, the weight of the shaft, or the different tip a wizard, but this shaft plays noticeably better than the other shafts I have had.
I play mostly equal offense when practicing at home and I keep track of my scores and there is no doubt this shaft plays significantly better than the others I have had. I see people sometimes saying the difference in playability from one cue to another is all hype. They are simply wrong.
They're also all wrong saying there's no effect from different joint types/pins, pin depths, pilot depths, shaft diameter/taper/ferrule/tip, butt diameter, butt taper, wood type, etc, etc.
The effect isn't just in the way the hit & balance feel in & to your hands - it also makes a difference in the way a cue performs...spin velocity development, cue ball deflection, vibration transfer, etc, etc.
I've heard good cuemakers say the type of joint makes no difference... NOT TRUE!!
The effect isn't just in the way the hit & balance feel in & to your hands - it also makes a difference in the way a cue performs...spin velocity development, cue ball deflection, vibration transfer, etc, etc.
I've heard good cuemakers say the type of joint makes no difference... NOT TRUE!!
In my cues,the pilot aligns the joint,(radially),the threaded part just clamps the 2 faces together, while the trueness of the joint faces is the main determining facter for alinging the cue.
Now alot of cues use the joint pin to both align and hold the face together.
This works well untill the pin gets a small amount of runout and then the joint faces end up being stressed and a not true shaft alignment.With the pin bent slightly, trueing the end faces does not cure the not straight shaft alignment.
Now alot of cues use the joint pin to both align and hold the face together.
This works well untill the pin gets a small amount of runout and then the joint faces end up being stressed and a not true shaft alignment.With the pin bent slightly, trueing the end faces does not cure the not straight shaft alignment.
> The way I've had it explained to me,that little bit of compression in a piloted joint,esp with a SS collar,is critical for superior playability. Look at a Szamboti,or Black Boar,Scruggs,they all fit snug. Schon's are quite similar,even though the Schon shafts have phenolic surrounding the insert as opposed to exposed wood. The original intention by Bob Runde was to make a cue as close to a Szamboti in playability,hence the compression fit.
Some believe the pilot has no use,or that it can't be "felt" in a blind test,and I have no desire to debate that. I,however,believe that players that have started out with and become accustomed to a steel-jointed cue,will disagree with that theory. Tommy D.
Some believe the pilot has no use,or that it can't be "felt" in a blind test,and I have no desire to debate that. I,however,believe that players that have started out with and become accustomed to a steel-jointed cue,will disagree with that theory. Tommy D.
There is a difference when you add everything else up. I currently play nothing other than the 14 thread pin. I have an ivory jointed cue and I believe that it has a superb hit. It also locks down the shafts very well and snugly. My Schon and other steel jointed cues have that unmistakeable hit that I have just grown to love. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. It is just personal preference more than anything.
Now, if it were a flat faced, It would probably connect and hit well also, but there is a chance for it to come loose, as I normally had to retighten when I had my flat faced cues. That doesn't mean they're all like that though. Simply one point of view.
Now, if it were a flat faced, It would probably connect and hit well also, but there is a chance for it to come loose, as I normally had to retighten when I had my flat faced cues. That doesn't mean they're all like that though. Simply one point of view.
If you blue the pilot of just about any cue you would find the pilot part is not truly centered into the joint and rubs on one side and dont touch anything on the other.
There are exceptions such as Ray Schuler's piloted joint which is an excellent example of brilliant engineering.
In most cues all the pilot does is reduce the flat faced area and adds nothing to the joint except looks.
Has anyone seen the joint on a Layani cue ?
Another bit of brilliant engineering.
Willee
There are exceptions such as Ray Schuler's piloted joint which is an excellent example of brilliant engineering.
In most cues all the pilot does is reduce the flat faced area and adds nothing to the joint except looks.
Has anyone seen the joint on a Layani cue ?
Another bit of brilliant engineering.
Willee
Piloted vs. Flat Face
Hi,
I agree that Ray Schuler engineered a wonderful piloted joint. I am a 3 cushion player, live in Palatine 1 mile from Ray's old shop and knew Ray with respect for his legacy. His work on tapers for billiards cues was also very impressive. After all, if Raymond Ceulemans plays with your taper, I guess you made a good taper.
As for my preference, I like a flat faced 14 thread truncated pin with a very close tolerance minor dia. bore in a garlock shaft insert. No chance of it going loose during play. Like a Schuler, it gets tighter when you play.
Rick Geschrey
Esoteric Cue
Hi,
I agree that Ray Schuler engineered a wonderful piloted joint. I am a 3 cushion player, live in Palatine 1 mile from Ray's old shop and knew Ray with respect for his legacy. His work on tapers for billiards cues was also very impressive. After all, if Raymond Ceulemans plays with your taper, I guess you made a good taper.
As for my preference, I like a flat faced 14 thread truncated pin with a very close tolerance minor dia. bore in a garlock shaft insert. No chance of it going loose during play. Like a Schuler, it gets tighter when you play.
Rick Geschrey
Esoteric Cue
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Hands down IMO the ultimate piloted joint is the Mike Lambros Ultra Joint. This is mostly all wood to wood with the compression fit of the pilot. You are also having a convex and a concave surface match up outside of the pilot. The end result is a hit that is completely unique compared to any other cues I've hit with. This method seems to produce a hit similar to a one piece cue and almost allows the joint section to flex more naturally. Cues that have a flat face joint and a metal pin in them stiffen up the joint section. Hit is completely subjective though and others I know feel differently.
Piloted joints are the bee's knees
Probably the most important thing about the piloted joint besides centering the shaft to the butt, is the much increased contact surface area of the joint. The more surface area the better compression and dispersion of energy transfer your going to have. Its definitely one of the best joint choices for a cue.
I even had a shaft once with a milled out tip/ferrule the tip sat in it. Increased the glueing surface by 300% and it really had a fine hit to it...the tip was just soooo secure in there and I'm guessing it hit better becuase it had that much more contact area to transfer that energy, and to me thats the same basic idea on the piloted joint. Now my patented tapered joint...well those are just for smoking lol.
Grey Ghost
Probably the most important thing about the piloted joint besides centering the shaft to the butt, is the much increased contact surface area of the joint. The more surface area the better compression and dispersion of energy transfer your going to have. Its definitely one of the best joint choices for a cue.
I even had a shaft once with a milled out tip/ferrule the tip sat in it. Increased the glueing surface by 300% and it really had a fine hit to it...the tip was just soooo secure in there and I'm guessing it hit better becuase it had that much more contact area to transfer that energy, and to me thats the same basic idea on the piloted joint. Now my patented tapered joint...well those are just for smoking lol.
Grey Ghost