What is up with the BCA's & Desrimination?

cuechick

cuechick

Flys In the Kitchen
Silver Member
It has bothered me for a long time that in the BCA Open Women's event, they play a race to 4. Even though we pay the same entry fee as the Men's Open and they get to race to 5. There may have been a day when because of time constraints this may have been necessary but I think that is hardly the case anymore. The level of women's play has risen and I would say most participants would be APA 5s or better, mostly better. Personally, I did not play a women that could not run a table...and it it irks me that this assumtion is being made and accepted.

I really do not think one game makes that much difference in time, but it can make a big difference in the outcome. I did not see any Women's matches that ran long. Including my own hill hill match, that still finished in less than an hour. While I did see many Men's Senior matches run long and even had to be reasigned to another table because they were a match and a half behind! Why aren't they being made to play shorter races?

I do not think it would bother me quite so much if we did not pay the same entry fee. How is that fair?

I think it is time that the BCA wake up and stop treating women players differently!!
 
Cuechick is absolutely right!

Women enter the BCA tournament by paying the same fee as the men yet they get races only to 4 vice 5? That's shortchanging the ladies and their opportunity to play another two games.

It's not only for the trophy and the prize money that people enter pool tournaments. A person wonders if they are going to get enough table time against a solid opponent for it to be worth the entry fee. A fairly weak entrant who will assuredly lose both of her sets should at least be entitled to 10 games of pool and not 8.

Yours Very Truly,
The Woim
 
I believe it's based on the assumption (not my assumption) that women are inferior pool players. It's a fact that inferior pool players take longer to play a game, so they make it a shorter race so they can finish in the prescribed amount of time. If I'm not mistaken, the other divisions are normally open divisions, not mens divisions.

Insert disclaimer.
 
Did you notice that the Women's Player Member Division and the Men's Player Member Division were both a race to 7? As someone who played in the Men's Open Division (race to 5), I must admit I was a little jealous. That trip sure was fun though. :)
 
Both men and women should play the same amount of games for the same entry fee and get paid the same payouts. This is 2007...not 1945. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Both men and women should play the same amount of games for the same entry fee and get paid the same payouts. This is 2007...not 1945. Johnnyt
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the men have quite a few more entries than the women and i agree with a previous poster that the assumption is the women's matches will take much longer. in some cases, it is very true - the higher up on the pool totem pole you go though, the faster you seem to play.
 
9balllvr said:
the men have quite a few more entries than the women and i agree with a previous poster that the assumption is the women's matches will take much longer. in some cases, it is very true - the higher up on the pool totem pole you go though, the faster you seem to play.
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Of course that is the "assumption" but IMO a very outdated one; and to base this assumption solely on sex is pure and simple discrimination..
My observation is based on playing in this tournament 6 times in the last 8 years and seeing the level of play constantly rise. I am an APA 7 in 8 ball and I think I am capable of making this judgement. In my last match, my opponent literally missed one ball, I missed two and that made the difference and I am not exaggerating!

Of course, there are weaker players in both divisions but at this point they are quickly eliminated. Also considering the fact that there are far fewer women to begin with, how would the possiblity of two more games really have much effect on the tournaments schedule? At the very least they should do 5 on the winners and 4 on the losers...

And no there is not a Women's divison and "Open", as suggested, it is clearly Women's and Mens...as this entry form for an upcoming BCA event shows.

Regardless of whether you agree at the level of play and whether the women should play a longer race...how is it fair that we pay the same entry?
 
Cuebacca said:
Did you notice that the Women's Player Member Division and the Men's Player Member Division were both a race to 7? As someone who played in the Men's Open Division (race to 5), I must admit I was a little jealous. That trip sure was fun though. :)
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Yes, I did noticed this, as my friend played in this event. That was esp irksome as here we had put in all this time & $$ playing in BCA leagues to qualify! Also, the level (in the Women's at least) was not nearly as high as in the Open. My other friend was playing in the Women's Open finals right across and the difference was glarring.

Here is another expample of the rising level of the Women's Open. A former WPBA touring pro was somehow allowed to play in it in 2006 and only finished 7th or 8th!

Come on, it aint your Grandma's pool league anymore!
 
cuechick said:
Of course that is the "assumption" but IMO a very outdated one; and to base this assumption solely on sex is pure and simple discrimination..
My observation is based on playing in this tournament 6 times in the last 8 years and seeing the level of play constantly rise. I am an APA 7 in 8 ball and I think I am capable of making this judgement. In my last match, my opponent literally missed one ball, I missed two and that made the difference and I am not exaggerating!

Of course, there are weaker players in both divisions but at this point they are quickly eliminated. Also considering the fact that there are far fewer women to begin with, how would the possiblity of two more games really have much effect on the tournaments schedule? At the very least they should do 5 on the winners and 4 on the losers...

And no there is not a Women's divison and "Open", as suggested, it is clearly Women's and Mens...as this entry form for an upcoming BCA event shows.

Regardless of whether you agree at the level of play and whether the women should play a longer race...how is it fair that we pay the same entry?
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did i miss something here - you elaborated on way more than i commented on - my assumption is that you just threw it all into one post for convenience. quite frankly, i don't think adding one or two more games will make much of a tournament length issue, however, there apparently is some reason for it, why not address the BCA and find out the real reason instead of speculating about discrimination.

it could be as simple as knocking down the women's brackets so that they have more tables to finish off the men's event quicker since they do have more players or something like that. i do think that a race to four is way to short, just about anyone can get lucky a couple of games and then it is a fight from there. i still stand by my opinion that women DO play slower than men in most cases. as far as paying the same entry, you always have the option of not paying it at all.
 
I had to wait as two women's open teams played a match against each other. The race in this format is also shorter than the men's. By wait, I mean--wait and wait and wait and wait. 4 hours for the match. Why they put these two teams in the main pit was/is beyond me? Yep, the women in the open sure can play.:eek:
 
watchez said:
I had to wait as two women's open teams played a match against each other. The race in this format is also shorter than the men's. By wait, I mean--wait and wait and wait and wait. 4 hours for the match. Why they put these two teams in the main pit was/is beyond me? Yep, the women in the open sure can play.:eek:
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The good number if not the majority of the women that play in the team event do not even play in the Singles. Just not the same thing.
 
cuechick said:
And no there is not a Women's divison and "Open", as suggested, it is clearly Women's and Mens...as this entry form for an upcoming BCA event shows.
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First, I agree that both men and women should play races to five.

Just to play devils advocate to the quoted statement. Even though the entry form says Men's Open I would be surprised if they would not allow a woman to enter. If a man wanted to enter the Women's Open it would not be allowed, therefore the Men's tournament is really an open tournament and is just misnamed.

Disclaimer: My assumption could be wrong as there are tournaments like the US Open where women aren't allowed.
 
Let's not miss the point!

Even if the women were inferior and took a half hour to play one game of 8 ball, they should still be entitle to play the same amount of games as the boys. A $20 entry fee should at least offer a girl a chance to participate in the bare minimum of 10 games of competitive 8 ball.

Yours Truly,
The Woim
 
Cuechick,

Mark is a really reasonable guy and this is a very valid point (IMO). If he doesn't see the thread here, pm him and I'm sure he will take your concerns into consideration.

How are things in ATL?

Mike
 
The Woim said:
Even if the women were inferior and took a half hour to play one game of 8 ball, they should still be entitle to play the same amount of games as the boys. A $20 entry fee should at least offer a girl a chance to participate in the bare minimum of 10 games of competitive 8 ball.

Yours Truly,
The Woim
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$20! I wish...try 125.00!
 
Mike Templeton said:
Cuechick,

Mark is a really reasonable guy and this is a very valid point (IMO). If he doesn't see the thread here, pm him and I'm sure he will take your concerns into consideration.

How are things in ATL?

Mike
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Hi Mike,

Who is Mark? I would love to contact him? I was hoping to show them through support from this thread that I am not the only one that feels this way.

And the ATL is great! I will be playing in the AC Prelim in Greenville in a few weeks, maybe I will see you there?

CC
 
cuechick said:
Hi Mike,

Who is Mark? I would love to contact him? I was hoping to show them through support from this thread that I am not the only one that feels this way.

And the ATL is great! I will be playing in the AC Prelim in Greenville in a few weeks, maybe I will see you there?

CC
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If I'm not mistaken, Mark Griffin is the owner of the BCA, and he posts here some. I'm not sure what his forum name is, but when I have read his posts, he always seems to give intelligent thought to questions. I know that his email address is mark@playbca.com. Maybe someone here can give us his forum name as well.
 
Mark Griffin (CEO)
mark@playbca.com

Mark posts here under the same name. I would suggest sending him an email as the PM is nice but limited in space. Mark is very approachable & has always answered any email promptly, professionally, and intelligently.
 
Having been to the BCA Vegas event many times I would say that it is a FACT that the womens' matches take much longer than the mens' matches and I am sure that the shorter races have nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with running a smooth and timely tournament......Marc:)
 
I looked in the user list, and it looks like his forum name is Mark Griffin (duh on my part). You could maybe look at some of his previous posts to see if the question has been brought up before.

Mike
 
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