For a very physical sports, women lack the energy in long sets. Their body was not built like men. Sporting bodies must take this into account so as not to disable athletes. And because men have more playing time, hence more sponsors, mean higher pay. Same as in pool, if you get more tickets for mens events, then you should also pay more. But if women also have sold more entry tickets, then I agree for the increase of payouts. Since pool is not as physical, women can have long races, I agree to that.
What is up with the BCA's & Desrimination?
- Thread starter cuechick
- Start date
You guys are really missing the point. Let me see if I can put it into terms you might understand....
You go to a a hamburger joint and your wife/girlfriend orders a single plain hamburger, you order a double cheeseburger. The bill comes and they have charged you the same for both burgers. When you ask the waiter why, they say "Well, women just eat slower, so they have to pay the same price."
You go to a a hamburger joint and your wife/girlfriend orders a single plain hamburger, you order a double cheeseburger. The bill comes and they have charged you the same for both burgers. When you ask the waiter why, they say "Well, women just eat slower, so they have to pay the same price."
cuechick said:
Why not contact the Women's US Open tennis event going on now in NY and tell them the women should play best 3 out of five sets just like the guys, I mean don't ya think the MEN should be complaiing about getting paid the same money but having to work harder and longer for it when the women only play 2 out of three sets. Until history proves us wrong the timelines that womens play has put into place will not change. I'm with ya 9bllvr on this one till things change drastically. And if your going to write an article on discrimination at least SPELL it Korrecktaleeee. Yah BAby.
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Seriously the womens open singles in the BCA is NOT nearly the level of the mens open in quality of play. There are bad players in the mens open, but those bad players in the mens open are alot better then the bad players in the womens open. The good players in the mens open are also vastly better then the good players in the womens open.
You can drop the entry fee but all that would manage to do is drop the prize amounts as the fee is just the way to build the prizes and is not there as a $x/game thing. If you are worried about not getting more then 8 games of competitive pool out of your $125 investment you probably should not play in the tournament in the first place.
No woman who plays in the BCA womens open would have a chance of reaching the final board in the mens open, if they had the skills to do it they would be playing the womens masters and not the open.
The arguement could be made (very correctly) that the mens open should change to a race to 7 format once you hit the big board because at that point the mens open is equal to quality of play if not better then the womens masters singles.
You can drop the entry fee but all that would manage to do is drop the prize amounts as the fee is just the way to build the prizes and is not there as a $x/game thing. If you are worried about not getting more then 8 games of competitive pool out of your $125 investment you probably should not play in the tournament in the first place.
No woman who plays in the BCA womens open would have a chance of reaching the final board in the mens open, if they had the skills to do it they would be playing the womens masters and not the open.
The arguement could be made (very correctly) that the mens open should change to a race to 7 format once you hit the big board because at that point the mens open is equal to quality of play if not better then the womens masters singles.
I think if you read all my post on this topic, I have never compared the level of play in the WO to the Men's. I have only compared it to it's own growth over the last few years. I also do not want them to lower the entry (also stated previously) but to either raise the race or raise the men's entry (which ultimately benefits them anyway)...
It is worth pointing out, that both Men's Masters and Women's Masters play the same race.
As far as the comparisons to other sports, such as tennis, those are test of endurance not just skill. And while the men in tennis may have to work harder for the same amount of money, the BCA is not paying the same pay-out in the women's as in the men's. Nor do I think they should, as I a have also previously stated, but at least if they did, it might justify the same entry fee.
To the male posters, I have to say, unless your sweating a SO's match, it is unlikely that you have as first hand knowledge of the women's level in this tournament, as I do. I played 5 rounds in the open and then finished 3rd in the second chance last year. I faced 10 different opponents and the first one was the weakest, maybe the equivalent of an APA 5, the rest played like 6's...or better.
When I first started playing in this tournament, you could count on getting a few 3's and 4's... I am sure there are still a few but I did not play any. I can say with complete conviction, that the women's level overall has risen to a level and additional game or two will not impede the overall progress of the tournament. As I also suggested an easy way to test this theory out, would be to implement a 5/4 race in next years event.
Do any of you really think that 1 game is too much to ask?
It is worth pointing out, that both Men's Masters and Women's Masters play the same race.
As far as the comparisons to other sports, such as tennis, those are test of endurance not just skill. And while the men in tennis may have to work harder for the same amount of money, the BCA is not paying the same pay-out in the women's as in the men's. Nor do I think they should, as I a have also previously stated, but at least if they did, it might justify the same entry fee.
To the male posters, I have to say, unless your sweating a SO's match, it is unlikely that you have as first hand knowledge of the women's level in this tournament, as I do. I played 5 rounds in the open and then finished 3rd in the second chance last year. I faced 10 different opponents and the first one was the weakest, maybe the equivalent of an APA 5, the rest played like 6's...or better.
When I first started playing in this tournament, you could count on getting a few 3's and 4's... I am sure there are still a few but I did not play any. I can say with complete conviction, that the women's level overall has risen to a level and additional game or two will not impede the overall progress of the tournament. As I also suggested an easy way to test this theory out, would be to implement a 5/4 race in next years event.
Do any of you really think that 1 game is too much to ask?
Do any of you really think that 1 game is too much to ask?
Ask Mark Griffin or contact John Lewis of the ACS he ran the League and Programs for 14 years at the BCA, I'd think his knowlege would speak loudly.
One game doesn't seem like that much, but in essence its two games, because is when one reaches 4 and their opponent is on three then two more games could possibly be played to finish the match, and as we all know the hill hill game at times can be long.
Ask Mark Griffin or contact John Lewis of the ACS he ran the League and Programs for 14 years at the BCA, I'd think his knowlege would speak loudly.
One game doesn't seem like that much, but in essence its two games, because is when one reaches 4 and their opponent is on three then two more games could possibly be played to finish the match, and as we all know the hill hill game at times can be long.
cuechick said:
you do not have to be female to know the caliber of player you are watching or playing - that is just plain ridiculous. i truly think you need to take in some of the information provided to you instead of having blinders on with this subject. not to mention you had a BCA rep state he would consider changes in a previous thread entry.
i play quite a bit on the regional tours and those women (most of which have played at least one pro event - myself included) can see the difference in play time - on the regional level - we are not talking leagues, but playing to make it a career on the pro tour. you keep stating your "facts" over and over again, the FACT of the matter is one game wouldn't make that much of a difference - i think most have agreed with you there, but where do you draw the line. people need to go home sometime. although you and others may not play slow, women do and you can't tell me that the APA 5s or higher don't. i quit playing leagues because it drove me nuts to sit there and participate.
been sitting here for a couple of days now and i had to get that out. but best of luck to you in your quest - my comments are in no way to be hurtful to you as a person, but you keep asking for women's opinions. i have not seen many that have stepped up to say otherwise.
I am female, and I think the women do play slower than the men.
I agree the caliber of play is higher at the BCA Nationals, but I waited on matches for hours just this year in Vegas, as was the case for every year it seems.
We need to ask the BCA if we can go to 5, if not, why? Will it mess up the scheduling? I doubt the answer is, "because you are girls!" LOL
I agree the caliber of play is higher at the BCA Nationals, but I waited on matches for hours just this year in Vegas, as was the case for every year it seems.
We need to ask the BCA if we can go to 5, if not, why? Will it mess up the scheduling? I doubt the answer is, "because you are girls!" LOL
Part of the problem I have with this thread is that the event is INHERENTLY DISCRIMINATORY! You participate BECAUSE it's discriminatory. In fact, the discrimination of the BCA events are what gives them their flavor. You have women's events, men's events, senior events and children's events. If it weren't discriminatory, a player like myself could just walk in and sign up for EVERYTHING and trust me, I would do just that.
9balllvr said:Jude, you are not THAT guy are ya?
Don't dare me. Don't dare me.
Cuechick, I don't think you get it... You're paying the same entry fee ($125) and getting more table time for you entree fee at a race to 4 than the men get for a race to 5.
ccshrimper said:
Sorry, but your the one who is not getting it. Sure, some of the women's matches take longer and so do plenty of the mens. But lumping ALL women into the same group, because some may be at a lower level is just plain wrong. Just as I would not judge all the Mens seniors by the ones I watched while waiting for my table, who's first game ran over 30 minutes.
My first entire match, only took 30 minutes. I had one hill-hill match and we were still done in under an hour. I would bet one of the reasons Melinda sat around waiting, was because she finished early, not just because the others were behind....? Maybe OMGWTF or Melinda could chime in, with there actual match experience...how long did they take, just out of curoisty? Aside from that, the entry fee has nothing to do with the time spent on tables, we pay additional green fees, via dollars in the table for every game played..
Which brings up another point...adding even just the 1 extra game on the winners side (which could be 2 in a H/H match), would also bring in increased revenue for the BCA.
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cuechick said:
just because they are slow, doesn't mean they are at a lower level. that is a pretty broad assumption on your part. i know many players that are like watching paint dry and could put you to sleep in a heartbeat, but their accuracy is superb. i hope you finally find the answer you are looking for on here. it is obviously something you feel very strongly about.
cuechick said:
Next time you're at a tournament, get your watch out and time the matches and see how long it takes for an average match race to 4, then do the same thing at the men's side in a race to 5. Do you think they really just shorted you one game without a reason? You'd probably be the same person complaining about the tournament running too long if they did grant your wish...
For the record, I don't think you're asking too much but ask a TD how much more time would be needed to add another game in for all of the women's matches. Maybe the TD already knows the difference in time required for the women's tournaments and could explain to you why it is or is not possible.