What is your opinion of my cue (swerve/squirt)

[WesleyW]

I own a cue (Longoni P8 with Pro2+), I know, its a billiard cue, not a poolcue, but that's not the question. I've played with this cue for like a half year, and it's a good cue to play with. When playing with english, I usually can predict almost always the deflection/squirt on the cueball. But sometimes the squirt transfert on the cueball is really strange (so sometimes I couldn't predict the path of the cueball). I didn't know exactly why it is so strange, untill now.

A friend of mine, he is a really good player. I asked him, his opinion of my cue. He also uses a billiard cue to play pool. Both cues (mine and him) are considerd extreem stiff. The only different between his shaft and mine, is that mine is a inch longer than his one. So mine is a little more flexibel (lesser stiff) than his.

He tested mine cue, and told me that when he uses a little left/right english, the cueball will swerve too much. So I tried it, and indeed. I kept my cue as level as possible. Uses extreem english (played a table length), and saw indeed the squirt (obvious) and SWERVE. I also tried his cue, it also squirt, but didnt swerve, even using extreem english.

So I'm wondering, is swerve really a bad thing? Would you consider it as a bad cue, because it swerve too much? Or do you think that this kind of swerve is quite normal?

Please give your opinion on my cue.

I'm also considering buying a 314 or Z shaft on my other cue (poolcue). Will the 314 or Z swerve lesser than mine playing cue? I don't care about deflection, because it's quite easy to control it. But swerve on the otherhand is more difficult.

 

[Flex]

I own a cue (Longoni P8 with Pro2+), I know, its a billiard cue, not a poolcue, but that's not the question. I've played with this cue for like a half year, and it's a good cue to play with. When playing with english, I usually can predict almost always the deflection/squirt on the cueball. But sometimes the squirt transfert on the cueball is really strange (so sometimes I couldn't predict the path of the cueball). I didn't know exactly why it is so strange, untill now.

A friend of mine, he is a really good player. I asked him, his opinion of my cue. He also uses a billiard cue to play pool. Both cues (mine and him) are considerd extreem stiff. The only different between his shaft and mine, is that mine is a inch longer than his one. So mine is a little more flexibel (lesser stiff) than his.

He tested mine cue, and told me that when he uses a little left/right english, the cueball will swerve too much. So I tried it, and indeed. I kept my cue as level as possible. Uses extreem english (played a table length), and saw indeed the squirt (obvious) and SWERVE. I also tried his cue, it also squirt, but didnt swerve, even using extreem english.

So I'm wondering, is swerve really a bad thing? Would you consider it as a bad cue, because it swerve too much? Or do you think that this kind of swerve is quite normal?

Please give your opinion on my cue.

I'm also considering buying a 314 or Z shaft on my other cue (poolcue). Will the 314 or Z swerve lesser than mine playing cue? I don't care about deflection, because it's quite easy to control it. But swerve on the otherhand is more difficult.

Swerve is basically a function of spin/ball speed/cloth speed.

I don't know if there is any way to truly quantify it, but it has been my experience that on a slower table swerve can be much more difficult to compensate for, especially on slower shots and at longer distances.

To kill swerve, the ball needs to be moving quite fast on a slow table; on a really fast table, swerve will be markedly less.

To minimize swerve, use less english, and avoid jacking up.

Flex

 

[WesleyW]

Swerve is basically a function of spin/ball speed/cloth speed.

I don't know if there is any way to truly quantify it, but it has been my experience that on a slower table swerve can be much more difficult to compensate for, especially on slower shots and at longer distances.

To kill swerve, the ball needs to be moving quite fast on a slow table; on a really fast table, swerve will be markedly less.

To minimize swerve, use less english, and avoid jacking up.

Flex

So, you don't consider it as a bad cue/shaft? It's just natural that the cb will swerve. Have you played with a 314/Z before? And did you also notice some swerve?

 

[Johnnyt]

My opinion is just shoot the damn ball in and don't woory about it. Johnnyt

 

[tpdtom]

There are as many opinions about cues, what works and what doesn't, as there are players. Professionals also have very diverse tastes. In my home pool room we have three true pro players. Two tour participants who gamble heavily and one local tourney player who gives a lot of lessons. Player number 1 uses a Southwest with a typical standard SW shaft, that is a parabolic taper, fairly stiff shaft. I'm not going to get into swerve and squirt on it. Player #2 uses a Schon with a pro taper. He has used laminated shafts in the past, but not currently. Player #3 uses a Predator cue with their shaft. They ALL agree that you need a shaft that creates minimal deflection, but all are not in agreement as to what lengths they will go to in order to avoid it. ie: Player #1 and #2 both use non-laminated shafts which undoubtedly have more deflection than a laminated shaft. They ALL feel that a good player can accustom himself to most any good shaft and play fine with them. Player # 3 believes that anyone is better off with a low deflection laminated shaft. The others won't argue about it but they use whatever.

Mere mortals like you and I would probably benefit from a laminated shaft like a Predator, OB-1, Universal Smart Shaft etc. , but I for one will continue to play with my pro tapered Dayton that I love that came with my Rambow style Dayton cue, not a laminated aftermarket jobbie which I could go out and buy today. Why you ask ? Because to me, nothing compares to a premium, high toned, old growth, straight grained, heavy for thickness, clear maple shaft. Just a shade tan if you please, long ivory ferrule, shock pad, and a laminated tip (one concession to modern technology) . YMMV...Tom

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

What I think about deflection (squirt) and curve ("swerve")

Forget about those concepts. Get used to both of them because it will be to your advantage. First of all, try to stay away from the thick, "nappy" slow cloth that you play on either the coin-op "bar" tables or what-have-you. The reason that there are those "whippy" cues is mainly for the tables that consist of the super slick cloth (such as Simonis). So many amateurs would only assume that a "bar" cue is usually the best cue for professional-like cloth. What they are deceived is that the pro-taper cues (usually for medium to medium-soft hits) are meant for suave and smooth shots for position. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are others out there that would oppose to what I'm saying and I do agree, everybody has their different preferences, but I am a believer that it is good to have deflection for shots. On your behalf, Wesley, a carom cue is a carom cue. Traditionaly, it is European Taper (the stiff taper). When a cue is meant for a specific discipline, then a cue for it's discipline is what it is meant to be. Just enjoy the game for whichever cue you are using and understand how it plays (or better yet, try to get acustomed to all of the cues you touch).

 

[Blackjack]

My opinion is just shoot the damn ball in and don't woory about it. Johnnyt

Rep to you - I agree with this statement 100%.

 

[WesleyW]

Forget about those concepts. Get used to both of them because it will be to your advantage. First of all, try to stay away from the thick, "nappy" slow cloth that you play on either the coin-op "bar" tables or what-have-you. The reason that there are those "whippy" cues is mainly for the tables that consist of the super slick cloth (such as Simonis). So many amateurs would only assume that a "bar" cue is usually the best cue for professional-like cloth. What they are deceived is that the pro-taper cues (usually for medium to medium-soft hits) are meant for suave and smooth shots for position.

When playing with english, I haven't noticed swerve, only deflection. After playing with my friend, I saw the swerve. It was on a fast cloth. But I wasn't hit it very hard, more like medium. Sometimes when I'm playing centerball I've noticed some swerve. But didn't noticed that it was transfert from my cue. It looks like, it's really easy to play swerve with my cue.

Now don't get me wrong, I know there are others out there that would oppose to what I'm saying and I do agree, everybody has their different preferences, but I am a believer that it is good to have deflection for shots.

I never thought deflection is a bad thing. It's the swerve that makes me think. I just wanna know if swerve is natural.

On your behalf, Wesley, a carom cue is a carom cue. Traditionaly, it is European Taper (the stiff taper). When a cue is meant for a specific discipline, then a cue for it's discipline is what it is meant to be.

I know. I've played with a poolcue, I own one. But I just dislike the hit of it. That's why I bought a carom cue. I've used a carom cue before, and I like the hit. I feel the most comfortable with the feedback of this kind of cue. It's a good cue, and I like to play with it. The fact this cue is made for carom, isn't making me play worser. There are many peoples who dislike my cue playing pool, but I like it and that's the most important thing to me.

Just enjoy the game for whichever cue you are using and understand how it plays (or better yet, try to get acustomed to all of the cues you touch).

I always try to understand my cue. That's why I always tell my friend to try my cue. He knows a lot of cues. Even a slight differences, he will noticed it. He pointed me to watch the swerve. The following practice session, I will try to learn how to manage the swerve. But I just want to know if it is normal that it has that much swerve, even playing level. I thought I've managed deflection, but haven't noticed that it has also swerve in it.

After hearing you guys, swerve doesn't sound like a big deal. If swerve is really that natural, it's better for me to learn to control it, rather buying a cue with lesser swerve.

 

[gedukas]

maybe the wrong place to ask, but what exactly is swerve? I understand deflection just fine but swerve is not in my vocabulary.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

When playing with english, I haven't noticed swerve, only deflection. After playing with my friend, I saw the swerve. It was on a fast cloth. But I wasn't hit it very hard, more like medium. Sometimes when I'm playing centerball I've noticed some swerve. But didn't noticed that it was transfert from my cue. It looks like, it's really easy to play swerve with my cue.

Swerve (and deflection) is important--no doubt. Without it, we couldn't configure our masse shots.

I know. I've played with a poolcue, I own one. But I just dislike the hit of it. That's why I bought a carom cue. I've used a carom cue before, and I like the hit. I feel the most comfortable with the feedback of this kind of cue. It's a good cue, and I like to play with it. The fact this cue is made for carom, isn't making me play worser. There are many peoples who dislike my cue playing pool, but I like it and that's the most important thing to me.

My recommendation is: if you want to play with a non-deflective shaft, stick with a Predator Z^2 (as you may have heard this gagillion times ) but if you would perfer a consistant shaft, go with Tiger. Otherwise, get one of those normal shafts

I always try to understand my cue. That's why I always tell my friend to try my cue. He knows a lot of cues. Even a slight differences, he will noticed it. He pointed me to watch the swerve. The following practice session, I will try to learn how to manage the swerve. But I just want to know if it is normal that it has that much swerve, even playing level. I thought I've managed deflection, but haven't noticed that it has also swerve in it.

Now see here my good man Wesley: Don't let your friend do the talking for you... period. You do your research. You let your friend talk you into what you're pondering for. Only YOU try out the cue you touch. Don't let your friend use your cue and criticise it. If you can afford it: go to a BCA Trade Show or the Derby City Classic which has booths to try out their cues and figure which one you would consider in the future. It's like the samurai saying: "Your sword is your own extension". Where I live, we don't touch any other person's cue (of course if it is a good friend and I ask permission). I find it quite distraught to let a banger (It's not your friend I am pertaining to, Wesley, please disarm yourself ) out there use my cue when they have no idea what they are doing.

After hearing you guys, swerve doesn't sound like a big deal. If swerve is really that natural, it's better for me to learn to control it, rather buying a cue with lesser swerve.

I'll tell you what, Wesley: Since my word is quite not giving meaning , I'll give you evidental proof that "squirt" is very effective... and there to prove is the master of disaster, Bata @ 4:58 and look closely. Tell me that was not squirt!

 

[WesleyW]

maybe the wrong place to ask, but what exactly is swerve? I understand deflection just fine but swerve is not in my vocabulary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4dl3BHfpA0

When playing left english, the cueball will squirt to the right. But the backleftspin will get the cueball swerve to the left.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

maybe the wrong place to ask, but what exactly is swerve? I understand deflection just fine but swerve is not in my vocabulary.

.......curve...... for instance: hit the cueball with center first, then (without moving your bridge) pivot the cue to either left or right. Say you moved your tip to the right (one tip) and you hit it with moderate speed. What will happen is that when you stroke the shot, it will move to the center of your descired path, then it will take a very slight turn to the right. Increase the angle of the butt of the cue, and it will make it even more curved to the right.

 

[WesleyW]

Now see here my good man Wesley: Don't let your friend do the talking for you... period. You do your research. You let your friend talk you into what you're pondering for. Only YOU try out the cue you touch. Don't let your friend use your cue and criticise it.

He is not talking me into someting. He is only pointing me the abilities of my cue. He tried my cue and direct noticed the swerve. He told me to use extreem english and try it myself. So I tried it, and indeed. I see swerve. I also tried his cue, and it didn't apply swerve on it. So I've really experienced the swerve.

I'll tell you what, Wesley: Since my word is quite not giving meaning , I'll give you evidental proof that "squirt" is very effective... and there to prove is the master of disaster, Bata @ 4:58 and look closely. Tell me that was not squirt!

Swerve is not the same as squirt (deflection) .

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

He is not talking me into someting. He is only pointing me the abilities of my cue. He tried my cue and direct noticed the swerve. He told me to use extreem english and try it myself. So I tried it, and indeed. I see swerve. I also tried his cue, and it didn't apply swerve on it. So I've really experienced the swerve.



Swerve is not the same as squirt (deflection) I know!! .

Ohh boy, just beat me to a pulp till I burst out candy

 

[WesleyW]

I'll tell you what, Wesley: Since my word is quite not giving meaning , I'll give you evidental proof that "squirt" is very effective... and there to prove is the master of disaster, Bata @ 4:58 and look closely. Tell me that was not squirt!

I do that many times, just to show off . And yes that's squirt. But with a Pred 314 or Z, you can also do that. But again, I'm not having problems with squirt. It's the swerve what I'm having troubles with.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

I do that many times, just to show off . And yes that's squirt. But with a Pred 314 or Z, you can also do that. But again, I'm not having problems with squirt. It's the swerve what I'm having troubles with.

Two things I can only tell you, Wesley man.

1) Back-Hand English to create swerve.
2) start hitting all your shots soft to compensate the squirt if you're gonna move your cue to it's specific English.

Works for me... might not be so for the others . Masse shots: I use squirt most of the times; BHE will not be so willing with shots like such.

 

[WesleyW]

I don't want to swerve, it swerves too easy and sometimes unwilling.

 

[WesleyW]

But thanks guys, it always nice to talk about stuff.

 

[Flex]

So, you don't consider it as a bad cue/shaft? It's just natural that the cb will swerve. Have you played with a 314/Z before? And did you also notice some swerve?

I've had a bunch of cues, and even more shafts. I owned a 314, but sold it about a year ago. I have two Meucci black-dot shafts that I took down quite a bit. I've had numerous sneaky petes with different kinds of shafts, some basically break cue shafts, others I retapered down, others I hollowed out for the first 3 inches or so under the tip.

Suffice it to say that any one of these cues played fine.

However, swerve is a natural thing, and any cue that can spin a cue ball will let you see the wondrous effects of swerve.

So, to answer your question, your shaft has nothing to do with swerve, squirt yes, but swerve no.

Every cue ball shot with side spin will swerve somewhat. Wanna really see swerve? Just jack up about 30 degrees and hit high on the cue ball with left or right english and see that baby curve down the table!

How much it will curve will depend on how you strike the cue ball, where, and what kind of stroke and speed you put on it.

Flex

 

[Billy_Bob]

I say if it works, don't fix it!

I see a lot of players get a new (different) cue or tip, then their game goes down the tubes until they get used to the new cue. It can take months or years to adjust to a new cue.

So if you have been playing with the same cue for quite awhile, then might want to stick with it.

With myself, I had problems using english (squirt or cue ball deflection), then I learned about backhand english. Problem solved except when the cue ball was on or near the rail (could not make long enough bridge).

Then I bought a Predator with a 314 shaft and could use front hand english, so problem solved. (Aim dead center, then move front hand left/right for english while keeping backhand still. Can easily apply english with no cue ball deflection when cue ball is near a rail.)

The only thing is it took me a LONG time to adjust to the new cue. But I was fairly new to the game, so easy for me to switch.