What is your opinion on Pro players that pattern rack the balls?

Pros decide

Seriously guys. Why can't the pros decide? It's their lively hood. They can police their own ranks. I am not and never will be a "pro player", so it is not my concern. There are better ways to make a living and plan for retirement.

What they do has no effect on me and where and how I play so I just don't care. So I better shut my mouth and quit posting on this topic!

Good shooting to all of you!
 
I've seen several replies that seem to think pattern racking is always associated with a soft break & early 9 ball combo a la Corey but there's more to it than that. I pattern rack, always have. Been doing it so long I have about a dozen different patterns I can utilize if someone does notice & ***** I can just switch to 11 other different patterns that just change the initial lay of the table after the break. Because of the time I have put into this I can rack a different patterns every rack but be comfortable with the pattern that comes off the break. What each has in common is the 1 & a wingball will go & I will control the rock & have shape on the 2 as it always goes in the back of the rack no matter the racking pattern.

Bottom line is too much is made of this. Really good players will put in the time & be capable of breaking numerous patterns in the rack & get out, it's the object of the game.

Also for those that contend that 9 ball is too easy. Top pros nowadays generally BNR on average 30-35% of the time. When it gets to 50-60% your ***** is valid, it isn't valid now.
 
Bank it said:
Also for those that contend that 9 ball is too easy. Top pros nowadays generally BNR on average 30-35% of the time. When it gets to 50-60% your ***** is valid, it isn't valid now.
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I don't know where to get these stats, but aren't the guys that consistently pattern rack generally doing better than this? It seems like they're doing 50% or better. That's just based on watching games and noticing when someone seems to be pattern racking. I haven't done a study, but it seems like they're running out at least 1/2 the time from a rigged rack.
 
And now for a truly radical suggestion:

How about REQUIRING that the players "pattern rack" ALL the balls? Announce at the beginning of the tournament what the pattern for that tournament, or day, is and demand that every rack be arranged the same way.

In tennis, the players know where the two of them are going to stand for the serve--every time. They work out strategies to deal with it. In chess, the players know where the pieces are going to stand on each side of the board, and they have worked out strategies to deal with it.

You would still have the problem of the gaps--but you would be some ways down the road to eliminating the break advantage.

Oh, and, of course, alternating break.

Oh, yeah, and win by two also.

Or do what "Justin 386" suggested and make every first shot after the break a required push out.
 
Tobermory said:
And now for a truly radical suggestion:

How about REQUIRING that the players "pattern rack" ALL the balls? ...
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I think one set of rules specified the 2 in back and the 3 and 4 on corners and another specified the positions of all the balls. If I have time I'll look through some old rule books, but I don't think they were BCA rules.
 
john coloccia said:
I don't know where to get these stats, but aren't the guys that consistently pattern rack generally doing better than this? It seems like they're doing 50% or better. That's just based on watching games and noticing when someone seems to be pattern racking. I haven't done a study, but it seems like they're running out at least 1/2 the time from a rigged rack.
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As far as the stats go I know AZB member At Large is a machine when it comes to most stats anyone is interested in regarding most major events. I think you'll find 30-35% to be accurate as an average.
 
Bank it said:
As far as the stats go I know AZB member At Large is a machine when it comes to most stats anyone is interested in regarding most major events. I think you'll find 30-35% to be accurate as an average.
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Oh, I'm not doubting 30-35% average. I'm actually surprised it's that's high. I'm wondering about the average out of a pattern racked table, unless you're saying that at this point everyone just pattern racks everywhere, and that's just how it is? I'm not saying it's not. I don't know one way or another but I was assuming that a lot of guys are at least trying to be fair about it.
 
john coloccia said:
Oh, I'm not doubting 30-35% average. I'm actually surprised it's that's high. I'm wondering about the average out of a pattern racked table, unless you're saying that at this point everyone just pattern racks everywhere, and that's just how it is? I'm not saying it's not. I don't know one way or another but I was assuming that a lot of guys are at least trying to be fair about it.
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Well, you're going to be facing a few challenges here. For one, yes. Players that pattern rack are racking favorably for themselves when it's rack-your-own and they're also racking unfavorably for their opponents when it's rack-for-your-opponent. So, how do you know when a player is racking randomly or not?

I think, at the very least, it would be interesting if there were stats based on which player was racking. Like, what's your FargoRate when you rack for yourself versus when your opponent racks for you?

I'm inclined to believe the highest and lowest echelon will see a minimal impact. It's the shortstops of the world you really have to watch.
 
john coloccia said:
Oh, I'm not doubting 30-35% average. I'm actually surprised it's that's high. I'm wondering about the average out of a pattern racked table, unless you're saying that at this point everyone just pattern racks everywhere, and that's just how it is? I'm not saying it's not. I don't know one way or another but I was assuming that a lot of guys are at least trying to be fair about it.
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You would be generous in your assumption. Most pattern rack in rack your own & occasionally an opponent complains to the TD & it's attended to. Most of the time it seems it's ignored implying to your opponent "I won't mess with yours, don't mess with mine.

Most players as I've stated in my 1st post have numerous rack patterns they have put together & become familiar with that they can alternate to making it "seem" like its a random pattern. It's been common for a very, very long time. In the days gone by of your opponent racking for you there are patterns to make outs more difficult. That's been around forever also. It's why I find all the drama over this amusing, there are those that act as if pattern racking is the advent of something new, it isn't new at all. What is new is that it is becoming common knowledge now.
 
I say let the ref rack the balls and forget this nonsense of checking the rack etc etc just play the game .
 
sciarco said:
I say let the ref rack the balls and forget this nonsense of checking the rack etc etc just play the game .
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Winner break/loser racks solves the issue. Moves the event along and gives both players time to ready themselves for the next rack and go over in their minds this next game and what transpired the prior game. All this rack your own came about because of players whining....because of this behavior, the TD became tired of babysitting adults. To me, letting your opponent rack the balls is like putting a fox in the henhouse.
 
We got two separate questions here really.

"What do you think of pattern racking?"
"What do you think of players who pattern rack?"

Pattern racking itself doesn't really offend or bother me because it's rare.
There aren't 30 dudes doing the same pattern, and each one is running 10-packs with it.
There are like 3 dudes doing 3 different patterns, and maybe two of them get a 5-pack.

Maybe another 3 TRYING to do it, but failing completely. It's not as easy as it looks.
Most of us on AZ couldn't run a 6-pack even if you literally placed every ball in the
exact same position and started with ball in hand.

So pattern racking itself? Kind of interesting actually, I like to see
what a top player thinks is the easiest, ideal layout. And how he adjusts when
some ball rolls a few inches the wrong way and now he can't execute the pattern he wanted.

But what do I think of PLAYERS who pattern rack?

Well, if you know there's a rule against it, and you break the rule intentionally,
you're cheating. They're cheaters. That's a pretty harsh term with lots of
negative connotations, but it's the truth. They might be great human beings
otherwise, and maybe they think the rule is BS, but if you wanna participate
in a sport and get paid for it, you abide by the rules.

You don't wait to get caught or assume it's ok because it's an interesting
technical challenge, and some skill went into developing the pattern and break.
 
First off, I'm not that great. I play, I have fun, I'm trying to get better. I racked the balls using the pattern 10 times. I didn't run out once. Yes, I made 2 or 3 balls on each break, but I was never really had good position for the next shot?!?!

After trying this, I just realized that I need to focus more on my game rather than shortcuts.

I think he (the guy in the initial post's video) was both lucky AND obviously plays very, very well.

I did notice that once I missed a shot, my opponent would have a very good chance of running out!
 
Let them pattern rack all they want. If both can do it, no relative advantage to either.

Sounds more like another case to whine about losing to me.

All the best,
WW
 
I have always equated pattern racking to stacking the deck in a poker game. Much of the beauty of Nine-Ball is it having a random aspect. That needs to be preserved.
 
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