What Level Is The Ghost?

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
If this has been covered before on here, forgive me. If I'm missing a point let me know in a nice way:wink: .

Let's say that you miss the 2 or 3 balls ten games in a row and the ghost wins (always runs out). To me that would be like playing a B+ player. If the ghost ran out 10 times from the 4 or 5 I'd have to give him a C+. Am I right here or am I missing something? Johnnyt
 
I am a bit confused at the description you have, but the point of the ghost is to beat the ghost in a race. Lets say races to 7 in 9 ball, if you can beat the ghost more times than not in races to 7 then you are playing pretty well.
 
Johnnyt said:
If this has been covered before on here, forgive me. If I'm missing a point let me know in a nice way:wink: .

Let's say that you miss the 2 or 3 balls ten games in a row and the ghost wins (always runs out). To me that would be like playing a B+ player. If the ghost ran out 10 times from the 4 or 5 I'd have to give him a C+. Am I right here or am I missing something? Johnnyt
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The ghost is spotting you the breaks and bih. It takes advantage of every mistake and you never get a second opportunity in a rack.

With that in mind it would make the ghost a pro level player. Even pros don't get out from an open table from time to time.

I believe the accu-stats magazines that were recently posted had top players running out between 60-70% of their run out opportunities.

The ghost doesn't weaken as you play better. It's kind of like if you aren't making any balls off the break, and your opponent always runs 5 or 7 and misses allowing you to finish off the remain 3-5 balls every game. Just because you never ran a full rack doesn't mean you played like a C player it only means that you recieve consistently easy opportunites.
 
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Jimmy M. said:
The ghost gets out every time he's supposed to, but he can't put any packages together. ;)
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I know Jim, but if someone missed his/her 2 or 3 ball ten games in a row that would be playing against a pretty strong player in my book. Of course my book is old. Johnnyt
 
Cameron Smith said:
The ghost is spotting you the breaks and bih. It takes advantage of every mistake and you never get a second opportunity in a rack.

With that in mind it would make the ghost a pro level player. Even pros don't get out from an open table from time to time.

I believe the accu-stats magazines that were recently posted had top players running out between 60-70% of their run out opportunities.
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Thank you. That's what I thought. I'm sane after all:eek: Johnnyt
 
I just started playin the ghost races to 5 and 7 a couple weeks ago. I gotta tell ya it is tough to beat ive prolly played total of about 8 sets so far and have not won yet, been on the hill three times. Got down to the 8/9 twice and dogged the fckn 8 straight in! I like it tho cause it puts pressure on you to play your best.
 
Also depends on WHICH ghost you play

Johnnyt said:
If this has been covered before on here, forgive me. If I'm missing a point let me know in a nice way:wink: .

Let's say that you miss the 2 or 3 balls ten games in a row and the ghost wins (always runs out). To me that would be like playing a B+ player. If the ghost ran out 10 times from the 4 or 5 I'd have to give him a C+. Am I right here or am I missing something? Johnnyt
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John,
I also think that the ghosts vary in level of toughness.

For example, the 14.1 ghost to 150 is the Gand PuBah of all ghosts, followed closely by the 15 ball rotation ghost.

From my experience, the One Pocket 8 & out ghost is next.

The 9 ball ghost and the 9 ball banks ghost are pretty close, with the banks ghost being just a shade tougher.

The easiest ghost is the 8 ball ghost.

This is not scientifically proven by a mass study or anything, this is just my opinion. I may be wrong. But here's how I got my ranking system for the various ghosts.

My goal in pool is to be able to break and run out in all 6 disciplines.

I can do that most often in 8 ball, then 9 ball, then 5 & out in banks, then break & 8 in 1P. I've been very lucky to have run out in rotation, but only managed that a handful of times. My high run in 14.1 is only 41, but that's my fault for not practicing it more. For me, the 8, 9 and bank ghosts are real close, as those are more easy games for me to run out in. I've broke and run 8 in 1P far fewer times than I have in banks, for example. But I practice 8,9 and banks more. I play more 1P than I practice it by myself.

Now, for others, the ranking may be different. Jay Helfert, for example, is a great banker. He may beat the banks ghost more than he beats the 8 ball ghost. A 14.1 specialist like John Schmidt may beat the 14.1 ghost more often than he beats the banks ghost. Does that make sense? In other words, whatever game YOU (the player) are best at, that is also the weakest ghost you'll face.

I got to admit I get a chicken bone in my throat when I play the 14.1 ghost. I got mad respect for HIM! But I may smack-talk or jive-talk the banks ghost, calling him names, agitating him a little. When my ghosts are shooting, I may even try to shark them by squirming in my chair or coughing just when they get ready to pull the trigger. But I never do that when the 14.1 ghost is shooting. I just sit there still as a statue, watching and waiting until his 150 and out is finished. Then I say something very polite as I clap a few times and rack 'em for the next set, which is usually back to 8 or 9 ball.
:eek:
 
If you are willing to bet money that you can beat the nine ball ghost, you're at least an A player and maybe much better.

People who will bet at the ten ball ghost are usually short stop speed at a minimum and even pro's don't have to like it if they're off their game or the table is breaking tough.

Pro's in dead stroke can beat the 12-ball ghost. Sometimes the 12-ball ghost seems to break as well as in 10 ball so its not that different. Tough table, though, and you better be a filipino or someone like Shane in good stroke.

I bank pretty good but would never consider betting I could beat the 9 ball bank ghost. That seems much tougher to me than nine ball ghost.

I'll have to give it a try. Maybe there's a way to break where you get a bunch of easy short banks. Even if you shoot 80% make banks, you're only about even money after three shots.
 
Well at least I didn't hear, "you want to know how good you are, go out and play a B+ player for money you nit".

I'm not quite ready for that yet. First I'll play in a few good bar box tournaments. That way my entry is posted and I have nothing else to choke on. Johnnyt
 
bud green said:
I bank pretty good but would never consider betting I could beat the 9 ball bank ghost. That seems much tougher to me than nine ball ghost.

I'll have to give it a try. Maybe there's a way to break where you get a bunch of easy short banks. Even if you shoot 80% make banks, you're only about even money after three shots.
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Agree. I would never bet against the banks ghost. That's why he ranks so high.
Good bankers still need open tables with the banking lanes open to hit a 5 and out. In a DCC style race to 3, I have yet to beat the banks ghost, even though I can sometimes run 5 banks in a row.
 
I actually think most people have the ghost way overrated. True, the ghost doesn't miss, and, unlike a human opponent, the ghost gets much tougher on tough equipment, but there are many other factors to consider as well. It seems that the ghost just gets into people's heads and they freak out because he doesn't miss, but the ghost can't hurt you in many of the ways a strong human player can. I rely on the ghost pretty heavily to determine where my game is on any given day, but I never go into it thinking "ok, if I can beat this level of ghost, then I can beat this level of human player", it's too hard to draw that kind of comparison.

As I think Jimmy M. pointed out, the ghost can't put together packages. Short of that, the ghost can't even keep control of the table for multiple racks (by playing safeties, etc.) because he's giving up the breaks and bih. I don't know, if I had to come up with a comparison, I'd probably say that beating the 9-ball ghost on a 9' table with pockets larger than 4.5" would be comparable to beating a mid to high range B player. On that same table, I think you'd have to be playing at least the 12-ball ghost to be pressed anywhere near as hard as you'd be pressed against a pro player, but again it's really impossible to draw that kind of comparison.

As always, JMHO,
Aaron
 
hi

Aaron_S said:
I actually think most people have the ghost way overrated. True, the ghost doesn't miss, and, unlike a human opponent, the ghost gets much tougher on tough equipment, but there are many other factors to consider as well. It seems that the ghost just gets into people's heads and they freak out because he doesn't miss, but the ghost can't hurt you in many of the ways a strong human player can. I rely on the ghost pretty heavily to determine where my game is on any given day, but I never go into it thinking "ok, if I can beat this level of ghost, then I can beat this level of human player", it's too hard to draw that kind of comparison.

As I think Jimmy M. pointed out, the ghost can't put together packages. Short of that, the ghost can't even keep control of the table for multiple racks (by playing safeties, etc.) because he's giving up the breaks and bih. I don't know, if I had to come up with a comparison, I'd probably say that beating the 9-ball ghost on a 9' table with pockets larger than 4.5" would be comparable to beating a mid to high range B player. On that same table, I think you'd have to be playing at least the 12-ball ghost to be pressed anywhere near as hard as you'd be pressed against a pro player, but again it's really impossible to draw that kind of comparison.

As always, JMHO,
Aaron
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aaron brought up some good points. thing is with the ghost it depends on table,cleanliness of cloth and balls.
pocketsize
the amount of bet etc.
ive found playing 12ball ghost on big pockets is easy i beat it to death.
at garys in cali 4.25 pockets i beat 12 ball ghost 11 in a row twice and 13 in a row once for money with many betting against me.anyway the 10 ball ghost on a diamond is a fair test for a pro in my opinion.
funny thing is i practice it sometimes and always edge it edge it out . other day friend of mine came over and i simply broke easy and beat 10ball ghost on diamond 16 in a row and 24 out of 26 games .it was weird i played great but breaking easy made it stealing.
i know 24 out of 26 with 16 in a row sounds like b. s. but my buddy brandon was there and i actually caught in on video.
my point is the ghost depends on alot of factors but as a general rule i think if you can beat 10 ball ghost on diamond 9 ft you are pro caliber to some degree jmho

p.s. im glad this question came up because i was waiting for my chance to brag about 16 in a row lol
 
john schmidt said:
aaron brought up some good points. thing is with the ghost it depends on table,cleanliness of cloth and balls.
pocketsize
the amount of bet etc.
ive found playing 12ball ghost on big pockets is easy i beat it to death.
at garys in cali 4.25 pockets i beat 12 ball ghost 11 in a row twice and 13 in a row once for money with many betting against me.anyway the 10 ball ghost on a diamond is a fair test for a pro in my opinion.
funny thing is i practice it sometimes and always edge it edge it out . other day friend of mine came over and i simply broke easy and beat 10ball ghost on diamond 16 in a row and 24 out of 26 games .it was weird i played great but breaking easy made it stealing.
i know 24 out of 26 with 16 in a row sounds like b. s. but my buddy brandon was there and i actually caught in on video.
my point is the ghost depends on alot of factors but as a general rule i think if you can beat 10 ball ghost on diamond 9 ft you are pro caliber to some degree jmho

p.s. im glad this question came up because i was waiting for my chance to brag about 16 in a row lol
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Wow, 16 in a row. I better add two hours to my practice a day. I can beat the 6-ball ghost w/o much of a problem. The 9-ball ghost and me average 6-4, the ghost on top. 10 and twelve ball ghost have to wait until I can beat the 9-ball one. Thanks for your input John. Johnnyt
 
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