What makes a good shaft?

lenoxmjs

Brazilian Rosewood Fan
Silver Member
Seems to be a lot of answers floating around out there.

Growth rings per inch. How do or can you count them after the shaft is made?

Tone. A higher pitch = a better shaft

Color. Dark= old Old=Better

Weight- Heavier is Better or should I say denser?

What do you builders think? I was talking to a respected builder and he said that he matches shafts by tone not weight. Opinions.



Thank you in advance.
 
I have a ton of shafts ready at all times. I have shafts from 8- 22 grain lines to the inch. These are all solid & vary in weight, from 3 1/2- 4 oz., so I match the shaft to the butt. My balance point is important to me, so matching a shaft that brings the Q into balance, is my aim. I do a semi core on many of my Qs, so it helps to standardize the shaft weight that is needed to achieve my balance. I don't have any bad shafts...only good & better...JER
 
lenoxmjs said:
Seems to be a lot of answers floating around out there.

Growth rings per inch. How do or can you count them after the shaft is made?

Tone. A higher pitch = a better shaft

Color. Dark= old Old=Better

Weight- Heavier is Better or should I say denser?

What do you builders think? I was talking to a respected builder and he said that he matches shafts by tone not weight. Opinions.



Thank you in advance.

Everyone has their own priorities in cue material specs. I have three main priorities in a shaft. 1st and most important is straight grain. If the grain is not straight or almost straight then I don't consider it as shaft wood. 2nd is ring count. The more growth rings per inch the better imo. Third is clear wood at least on the front part of the shaft so that there is no sugar or highlights to distract aiming. I buy white shafts. That is what most people want. There is absolutely no truth to the opinion that a darker shaft, in it self, is a better piece of wood. All Maple is white when standing but depending on how the wood is treated after logging greatly determines what color the Maple will look like later. It is for this reason that many, if not most, cue builders buy their shaft wood from dealers who specialize in shaft wood. You will never find white shaft wood at a lumber yard as the steps needed to keep Maple white costs more so it is not normally done.
I have never bounced a shaft of wood in my life so I have no clue about tone. There are a couple of cue makers on this forum who expound over the qualities of tonal wood but it is Greek to me. Same with weight. The taper of a shaft greatly determines it's final weight. A stiff shaft with an insert will certainly weigh more than a whippy shaft with a 3/8 no insert shaft. I believe that the more growth rings a shaft has then the denser and heavier it will be.

Dick
 
Shaft wood is a personal preference. I personally don't mind marks or eyes or color in the shaft as long as it plays good. However almost none of my customers do. The shaft has to be dense straight grained maple. Heaviness and density kind of go hand in hand. A lot of weight is moisture content. The older a shaft is / longer it is seasoned the less it will weigh because of water. Until it gets to the same level as it's surroundings. The denser the wood is the longer it takes to season. So It is possible to have a heavy or light dense piece of maple. It has to be seasoned and dried correctly for it to last.

Jack here is some GREEK.. Take 5 shafts cut to the same diameter same length. Drop them from about 6 " on end on a concrete or tile floor. Listen to the difference in sound. The higher the pitch the denser the shaft.

Add what Jack said and you get pretty much have a good starting point to how you want to form your opinion on "What Makes a good shaft?"
 
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Straightness of grain, consistency of growth rate, tone and density are my major factors. Color is not a concern, so long as the color is consistent over the entire shaft. The 13mm shaft with my taper needs to weigh between 3.8oz-4.3oz., no lighter & no heavier. I bounce each shaft & note the sound & how high it rebounds from the concrete floor.

Though color of the wood can be minutely affected by the handling of the logs, color of the wood is most determined by habitat, region & age of the tree. Specific species also plays a role. Trees from central & northern Wisconsin are the whitest in the world, with UP Michigan & Ontario a close second. Wood from New England is very light brown, almost white. Wood from further south is yellow. The reasons are growth rate due to seasonal climate, and habitat, what grows next to the trees & where it gets it's nutrition. If it's mountainy terrain & heavy forest like the northern Vermont/New York area, the maples are the smaller trees in the forest next to the giant oaks & ash. In Michigan the maples are the bigger trees. Climate is different, too, as is the soil and nutritional value of the soil which is effected by minerals and decaying plant life. Then you must consider age. As a tree ages the core dies & basically becomes a water preserving sponge, while the outer layers(sapwood) continue to grow. If all is well, the core of the tree will not deteriorate after death & eventually the living sapwood will tremendously slow growth. It causes the wood to turn brown. It is not constantly & rapidy expanding anymore. It's simply just there. This is considered old growth & happens after 100-150+yrs. Slow growth is similar. It grows so slow, for numerous reasons, that the wood is stagnated, retarded in growth & thus turns brown due to lack of cell reproduction. This is why old growth & some slow growth shafts with high grain count are brown, not white. It has nothing to do with lumbering process. The most that can happen with lumbering is the wood turn slightly yellowed, and then begin to rot/spalt.

The drying process also determines some color. Traditional kilns reach temperatures of 100-120 degrees. It takes weeks or months to properly dry the wood, but the wood is left in a natural state but with less water content. Vacuum kilns heat to over 800 degrees & zap the moisture from wood within hours or a few days. It not only cooks the wood, but sucks all of the moisture & sap & oils from the wood. This leaves the wood bright white with minimal color defects, but also chemically changes the wood. It is a very fast & effective way of making perfect, useable lumber with only subtle deterioration, but I have experienced it to be somewhat softer & lower quality than traditional kiln dried wood. It's great for kitchen cabinets but I don't trust it for my cue shafts. Just my own personal thoughts & experiences. I have logged, milled & dried maple lumber personally. There's a lot more to it than most folks realize.

Specific species of maple also plays a role in quality. All "hard maple" is not the same & is not only sugar maple. Sugar maple is the major species, but black maple is also logged & milled & marketed as hard maple. The tricky part is that black maple & sugar maple naturally produce a hybrid. Region determines overall character of each hybrid. This creates several sub-species of the two major hard maple trees. Lumber mills & yards sell any of it as "hard rock maple" The mills likely never know the exact species as they most often do not cut the timber themselves but bid on the logs at auctions. Any hard maple will have similar bark patterns & color, and makes virtually identical looking lumber. The differences only emerge when the wood is used under stress in a structurally demanding item like a cue shaft. I have forest property that has both of these two maples growing side by side, and there is a difference.

Anyway, that's probably more than anybody is interested in knowing about maple, but when it comes to finding the best possible wood for a shaft it comes in handy. I'm a wood freak :) It's fun & I am always amazed at how much there is to learn. I have been studying maples for a few years now & still finding new information. And it's only one of hundreds of woods used in a cue!!!
 
Now that's information you don't find very often on this forum.
I'm starting to understand why shaft woods are the life blood of any cue builders. BTW Eric, your diamond shaft dowels are great. I cut one down for my third cue and it plays really nice.

Thanks Again.
Duc.
 
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qbilder said:
Straightness of grain, consistency of growth rate, tone and density are my major factors. Color is not a concern, so long as the color is consistent over the entire shaft. The 13mm shaft with my taper needs to weigh between 3.8oz-4.3oz., no lighter & no heavier. I bounce each shaft & note the sound & how high it rebounds from the concrete floor.

Though color of the wood can be minutely affected by the handling of the logs, color of the wood is most determined by habitat, region & age of the tree. Specific species also plays a role. Trees from central & northern Wisconsin are the whitest in the world, with UP Michigan & Ontario a close second. Wood from New England is very light brown, almost white. Wood from further south is yellow. The reasons are growth rate due to seasonal climate, and habitat, what grows next to the trees & where it gets it's nutrition. If it's mountainy terrain & heavy forest like the northern Vermont/New York area, the maples are the smaller trees in the forest next to the giant oaks & ash. In Michigan the maples are the bigger trees. Climate is different, too, as is the soil and nutritional value of the soil which is effected by minerals and decaying plant life. Then you must consider age. As a tree ages the core dies & basically becomes a water preserving sponge, while the outer layers(sapwood) continue to grow. If all is well, the core of the tree will not deteriorate after death & eventually the living sapwood will tremendously slow growth. It causes the wood to turn brown. It is not constantly & rapidy expanding anymore. It's simply just there. This is considered old growth & happens after 100-150+yrs. Slow growth is similar. It grows so slow, for numerous reasons, that the wood is stagnated, retarded in growth & thus turns brown due to lack of cell reproduction. This is why old growth & some slow growth shafts with high grain count are brown, not white. It has nothing to do with lumbering process. The most that can happen with lumbering is the wood turn slightly yellowed, and then begin to rot/spalt.

The drying process also determines some color. Traditional kilns reach temperatures of 100-120 degrees. It takes weeks or months to properly dry the wood, but the wood is left in a natural state but with less water content. Vacuum kilns heat to over 800 degrees & zap the moisture from wood within hours or a few days. It not only cooks the wood, but sucks all of the moisture & sap & oils from the wood. This leaves the wood bright white with minimal color defects, but also chemically changes the wood. It is a very fast & effective way of making perfect, useable lumber with only subtle deterioration, but I have experienced it to be somewhat softer & lower quality than traditional kiln dried wood. It's great for kitchen cabinets but I don't trust it for my cue shafts. Just my own personal thoughts & experiences. I have logged, milled & dried maple lumber personally. There's a lot more to it than most folks realize.

Specific species of maple also plays a role in quality. All "hard maple" is not the same & is not only sugar maple. Sugar maple is the major species, but black maple is also logged & milled & marketed as hard maple. The tricky part is that black maple & sugar maple naturally produce a hybrid. Region determines overall character of each hybrid. This creates several sub-species of the two major hard maple trees. Lumber mills & yards sell any of it as "hard rock maple" The mills likely never know the exact species as they most often do not cut the timber themselves but bid on the logs at auctions. Any hard maple will have similar bark patterns & color, and makes virtually identical looking lumber. The differences only emerge when the wood is used under stress in a structurally demanding item like a cue shaft. I have forest property that has both of these two maples growing side by side, and there is a difference.

Anyway, that's probably more than anybody is interested in knowing about maple, but when it comes to finding the best possible wood for a shaft it comes in handy. I'm a wood freak :) It's fun & I am always amazed at how much there is to learn. I have been studying maples for a few years now & still finding new information. And it's only one of hundreds of woods used in a cue!!!



Nicely Done! Awsome post!
 
shaftwood

I agree with most of the above on this issue. And I believe the long posts above say it very well. One type of shaftwood was missed though and I would like to know your general consensus on the submerged maple that's being reclaimed from the Great Lakes. Is it a fad wood for shafts? It is being touted as the next best thing to fresh grits. That's southern talk y'all. How do you assess it's place compared to single wood shafts and laminated shafts(pie cut and flat laminated)? I just got some in and haven't seasoned it long enough yet to taper further. The worst piece has over 28 growth rings per inch and has a higher rebound rate than most single wood or laminated shafts I've cut so far. They appear to be a little denser per size. I can't wait to finish one for my demo cue.
I apologize if this subject has been posted before. I didn't think and do a search before posting here, as is obvious.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues:cool:
 
Submerged wood is tricky. It's only available when it can be found. It's also very expensive to reclaim if the original mill's stamp is on it & that comany still exists. Once obtained, it has to be pulled from the bottom, pressure washed & then milled before drying & cracking. It's fast & expensive. It also has different kiln schedules than normal maple, so a kiln has to be dedicated. Oak is the most common reclaimed timber. Reclaimed timber is also most generally cut into veneer & sold at HIGH commercial rates for expensive office furniture & such. So getting your hands on a maple useable for shaftwood is tricky.

The wood supposedly does not deteriorate. When maple dries & cures, the cells collapse which cause shrinkage. In submerged wood, this never happens & the sap & natural oils inside the cells crystalize. So when the log is pulled up & dried, it does not shrink nearly as much as normal maple, nor does it lose as much weight do to drying out. The wood is hard, dense & strong. As to it's performance as a shaft, that is controversial. But it is different than standard maple. It's stiffer, heavier & harder.
 
I have a Timeless Timber shaft (reclaimed maple), that was roughed out by Chester Krick 8-9 years ago and sat in a closet for 7-8 years before being finished by William Lee (Willee Cue, who did a fantastic job), and matched to my piloted 5/16x14 Scruggs. The hit is different than any other shaft I have ever used. It is very stable, solid, stiff, and dense. Knowing this beforehand, I requested a long (15") protaper and ivory ferrule, which I believe softens the hit. I guess it's an acquired taste, I played it for about two weeks daily and liked it, but finally reverted back to my favorite Scruggs shaft, which I guess I am more used to. I do know that a lot of friends that tried it really liked it and tried to buy it, but I'm hanging on to it for a while. But I have also heard negative reviews from others on this forum. Do a search for Timeless Timber for more information.
:p
 
Thank you alot Eric.
That was one of the best and most knowledgeable posts ever stated on az.
Regards, David
 
Great post on Maple info!Thanks. I've been playing with a sunken wood shaft for about four years. I love it. The wood seems denser and it's a pleasure to cut on the lathe , it puts a big smile on my face. I've made a few billiard cues with those shafts and they seem to love them,
although, sometimes getting the shaft wood without any streaks in the first 10 inches can be tricky.

Mario
 
Some of the posts were pretty long and I did not read them carefully, so I apologize if I give information that has already been covered. When dealing with shaft wood the part of the world and even the part of the US and Canada it comes from makes a difference. The western maple is much lighter in weight. New York Maple is lighter in weight than Michigan or Maine maple. Canadian maple varies from one region to another also. There is really no right answer as maple gives you trade offs. If you gain many growth lines you usually get a stiffer hit and a little more weight. But that is not always true as some pieces with only 6 growth lines per inch can be heavy also. Another thing is that tight grain also means less pieces that will not have a sugar or mineral line in that shaft since there are more places for it to be trapped between growth lines.
I like the hit of the tight grain wood and when I spot a perfectly clean piece with 20 or more growth lines per inch I pull it for my cues. I have sold many thousands of shaft blanks and believe me I buy some of the best wood available and only a few out of a hundred that are super tight grain are super clean.
Another side to tight growth logs is that usually means a dense forest and the trees are competing for nutients and water and the trees have less little sprigs coming off the trunk which gives less burls in the shaft, which is a plus, but they also don't grow as straight. So the fast growing loose grain maple that most of todays managed forests are producing will be straighter grain with lots more little burls and such from the sprigs. What I am told causes the sprigs is too much sunlight getting to the trunk, which does not happen in the old growth dense forests.
For those who want to hear the shafts that ring when bounced on the end on a concrete floor. Those high tonal pieces have less compression to them and therefore produce less cue ball action. They actually give a flatter hit instead of the real lively hit, most want from maple. But then again that flatter noisier hit is what some collectors and straight pool players thrive on. So as I said there are trade offs and there is no right answer as to what is best. But if you want tight grained, high action shafts then Hightower Cues might be the one for you. But if you want the ringy ping to the hit then another shaft would suit you better.
 
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The reason

qbilder said:
Straightness of grain, consistency of growth rate, tone and density are my major factors. Color is not a concern, so long as the color is consistent over the entire shaft. The 13mm shaft with my taper needs to weigh between 3.8oz-4.3oz., no lighter & no heavier. I bounce each shaft & note the sound & how high it rebounds from the concrete floor.

Though color of the wood can be minutely affected by the handling of the logs, color of the wood is most determined by habitat, region & age of the tree. Specific species also plays a role. Trees from central & northern Wisconsin are the whitest in the world, with UP Michigan & Ontario a close second. Wood from New England is very light brown, almost white. Wood from further south is yellow. The reasons are growth rate due to seasonal climate, and habitat, what grows next to the trees & where it gets it's nutrition. If it's mountainy terrain & heavy forest like the northern Vermont/New York area, the maples are the smaller trees in the forest next to the giant oaks & ash. In Michigan the maples are the bigger trees. Climate is different, too, as is the soil and nutritional value of the soil which is effected by minerals and decaying plant life. Then you must consider age. As a tree ages the core dies & basically becomes a water preserving sponge, while the outer layers(sapwood) continue to grow. If all is well, the core of the tree will not deteriorate after death & eventually the living sapwood will tremendously slow growth. It causes the wood to turn brown. It is not constantly & rapidy expanding anymore. It's simply just there. This is considered old growth & happens after 100-150+yrs. Slow growth is similar. It grows so slow, for numerous reasons, that the wood is stagnated, retarded in growth & thus turns brown due to lack of cell reproduction. This is why old growth & some slow growth shafts with high grain count are brown, not white. It has nothing to do with lumbering process. The most that can happen with lumbering is the wood turn slightly yellowed, and then begin to rot/spalt.

The drying process also determines some color. Traditional kilns reach temperatures of 100-120 degrees. It takes weeks or months to properly dry the wood, but the wood is left in a natural state but with less water content. Vacuum kilns heat to over 800 degrees & zap the moisture from wood within hours or a few days. It not only cooks the wood, but sucks all of the moisture & sap & oils from the wood. This leaves the wood bright white with minimal color defects, but also chemically changes the wood. It is a very fast & effective way of making perfect, useable lumber with only subtle deterioration, but I have experienced it to be somewhat softer & lower quality than traditional kiln dried wood. It's great for kitchen cabinets but I don't trust it for my cue shafts. Just my own personal thoughts & experiences. I have logged, milled & dried maple lumber personally. There's a lot more to it than most folks realize.

Specific species of maple also plays a role in quality. All "hard maple" is not the same & is not only sugar maple. Sugar maple is the major species, but black maple is also logged & milled & marketed as hard maple. The tricky part is that black maple & sugar maple naturally produce a hybrid. Region determines overall character of each hybrid. This creates several sub-species of the two major hard maple trees. Lumber mills & yards sell any of it as "hard rock maple" The mills likely never know the exact species as they most often do not cut the timber themselves but bid on the logs at auctions. Any hard maple will have similar bark patterns & color, and makes virtually identical looking lumber. The differences only emerge when the wood is used under stress in a structurally demanding item like a cue shaft. I have forest property that has both of these two maples growing side by side, and there is a difference.

Anyway, that's probably more than anybody is interested in knowing about maple, but when it comes to finding the best possible wood for a shaft it comes in handy. I'm a wood freak :) It's fun & I am always amazed at how much there is to learn. I have been studying maples for a few years now & still finding new information. And it's only one of hundreds of woods used in a cue!!!


This is exactly the reason I am on your list Eric. BTW, still waiting for one of those tung oil finished sneakies if you have one coming up. Thanks, Peter

pbglawyer@yahoo.com
 
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