There are no pro players in the tournament but it just shows how much the speed of
a player can vary from place to place. The TD says a pro is a pro. A short stop is a n
A player anything less than a shortstop is a B player
What skill level am I ?
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There are no pro players in the tournament but it just shows how much the speed of
a player can vary from place to place. The TD says a pro is a pro. A short stop is a n
A player anything less than a shortstop is a B player
Once again you can't say "A B player starts at such and such a Fargo Rating." Here are average ratings for "B" players for several places/regions that use the designation. There is a pretty big disparity.
We could choose to convene a giant summit with representatives from all over to come to a uniform description of what a B players is. But why? Why try to change everybody's well entrenched but parochial viewpoints of what a B player is.
Why not just avoid the unnecessary descriptor that fails to do its job unless communicating only locally?
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That actually looks right, for B- to a B+ range and exactly what I say the rankings line up as. If you go much lower than 475 for a B- you will leave no room for C or D players. And if you extend to 600+ for B players, then you leave no room for A- and up players. That is the issue with not using the rankings properly, you need to account for the other ranks. If someone is a 700 and are called a B, then what is an A since known pro players are at 750-800? You have D-B go to 700, then from 700-800 you go, B,A,A++(Open), Pro? Does not work. Even with a B starting at 600 you do not have the room for the other rankings. But a B+ or A- at 600 fits. As does a B or B- at 500-550.
I made a typo the other day when I said one player had a fargorate of 689 his fargorate
was actually 679 and that was the last time I looked. I'm getting ready to go to work
however tomorrow I will look up the players that I know have a fargorate just to see
what the range is.
was actually 679 and that was the last time I looked. I'm getting ready to go to work
however tomorrow I will look up the players that I know have a fargorate just to see
what the range is.
No wonder I always thought people were nuts when they talked about what a B-player was!
Freddie <~~~ okay, not an H-player
I sent you a PM once asking why Fargo went to three digits rather than 2. I’m sure you’re a busy guy, but is there any reason why SVB can’t be an 83 and Bergman be a 79, and so on... does the third digit really mean that much?
He gave you the AVERAGE ratings for “B” players by region. That’s a huge variance. Can you explain to me how My skill level can stay the same, while I have been rated as AAA, AA, AA+, A, A+, B, 10, 9, and “open”? I don’t understand why you refuse to believe that not everyone has the same idea of what a “B” player is.
Yes, 511 is high for an SL5. SL6 and some SL7s are rated that. Would expect around 450 for a 5.
Yeah, batting averages could do that too...
I think two digits would be OK, but I think three digits is better for two reasons.
First, we estimate the standard deviation of a rating to be about 20 points with 200 games, about 10 points with 800 games, and about 5 points with 3200 games. Most of the top pros have a few to several thousand games, and I think two digits would be unnecessarily throwing out information for them.
Second, let's say a player with 800 games rated 576 puts in a bunch of work and over the course of a few months raises to 583. This trend is real, and it is good for the player to be able to see it rather than going from 58 to 58. This trend (the increase) could be real even if the overall rating is off by 10 points
Great explanation. Thanks.
The last tournament that I played in had 35 players, race to 6. I am not going to put
the players names without permission but I looked up the fargorate of the players who
I thought would have one some did some didn't. I found 5 that had an established rating
They were. 659, 649, 647,640, and 573
The tournament paid 6 places only one of these finished in the money
There was at least 5 more players there that play as strong as any of those players
For example my buddy and the guy with the 649 rating played 4 sets race to 30 for
1K per set over a period of a couple months. My buddy won 3 of the 4 sets. The guy with
the 649 rating is wanting games on the wire to play again. My buddy and I play almost
dead even but I play just slightly better than him. Neither of us have a fargorate.
Regardless of what letter rating u put on the players it's a very evenly matched tournament
and it's hard to win. I've won it a few times and one year I finished in the top 10 in every one
that I played in. However my fargorate is still 0. Last time I played I only won one set
the players names without permission but I looked up the fargorate of the players who
I thought would have one some did some didn't. I found 5 that had an established rating
They were. 659, 649, 647,640, and 573
The tournament paid 6 places only one of these finished in the money
There was at least 5 more players there that play as strong as any of those players
For example my buddy and the guy with the 649 rating played 4 sets race to 30 for
1K per set over a period of a couple months. My buddy won 3 of the 4 sets. The guy with
the 649 rating is wanting games on the wire to play again. My buddy and I play almost
dead even but I play just slightly better than him. Neither of us have a fargorate.
Regardless of what letter rating u put on the players it's a very evenly matched tournament
and it's hard to win. I've won it a few times and one year I finished in the top 10 in every one
that I played in. However my fargorate is still 0. Last time I played I only won one set
Because they are trying to use a relative rating instead of an absolute rating.
Not sure why it's confusing, DCBA
D is barely past beginner
C has some knowledge but can't run more than 3-4 balls on average, loose position play, bad safe
B can run 5-6-7 balls on average, can place cueball pretty well, can run 2 racks in 9 ball
A solid player 7-8-9 ball runs often, 2-3 racks strung every few matches
A high 400, low 500 is a B- player, a high 500 Fargo is a B+. Seems each 100 point range is a full level in the DCBA rating and lines up pretty well. 300 = D, 400 = C 500 = B 600 = A 700 - 800 = Open to Pro If someone is a 100-200 in Fargo they are not quite a pool player, that is those players that just hang out with their friends and take 4 tries to make a ball. Once you hit 300 then you have some idea how to line up a shot and maybe make a few balls in a row on purpose.
If someone wants to take those ratings and make them relative to the area or other players, nothing can be done there, but it then causes confusion. Like if I said that in my town a foot will be 13 inches, or 9 inches instead of 12, just because someone decides to do something, does not make it correct.
Leagues have relative ratings, Fargo and the DCBA ratings are absolute, they track your skill. Fargo due to a ton of info and statistics, DCBA based on what you can do on the table.
What those ratings you said are doing are using the league way of rating players and applying it to the DCBA rating, just like if I felt like calling a foot in my town 13 inches.
If you can run a few racks and usually run out in 9 ball with ball in hand, that would make you an A range, how consistent you are with running out, less mistakes, better safes would bring you to A+
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I agree on your last sentence. My question (I think Mike Page’s question also) is why are YOUR definitions for ABCD correct and the others wrong?
I completely disagree and we are from the same area. All the local tours around here have many guys rated in the C category that can run out from the break. The last time I played I was rated a C+ and there other guys, better than me, rated the same. Now, I am no world beater but, based on your break down I would be a solid to a high B. There are no rigid rules to say what someone plays as. An easy example if the APA nationals. I went out as a 6 from MA and completely destroyed an 8 from MO. Different areas of the country are rated differently based on the level of competition.
Where did you find those descriptions for ABCD ratings?
Look at it this way, if a D is a beginner, how can in any possible way a C be a player that can run out a rack? What does that make a B player, or an A? If a C can run 6-7-8 on a normal basis, that means a A player would be a pro, but they are not, they are an A.
This just means that the players ranked C are well under their rating if they can run out more than a few balls.
Again in your case, it's is the way people use ratings that is wrong, not the rating.
All you need to do is think a bit, taking out someone totally new to pool that is not even a D and Pro level players, you have DCBA.
D is just learning proper stance and what position even is, never mind how to play it. So starting from that, try to put in the rankings in skill level. If you go with D is new, C can run a rack, where the hell is the skill level between that, and where does that put a B or A player?
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Ok so you just answered my question.... You made up those ranking descriptions.
All you need to do is think a bit, taking out someone totally new to pool that is not even a D and Pro level players, you have DCBA.
D is just learning proper stance and what position even is, never mind how to play it. So starting from that, try to put in the rankings in skill level. If you go with D is new, C can run a rack, where the hell is the skill level between that, and where does that put a B or A player?
Or if you put in a B player that can run out several racks or be running out with ball in hand all the time, where does that put the A players?
This is a good description but I find that it takes out the Pro level and makes a C+ player seem better than they are, does not leave a lot of room for variance, again taking the C and B players too a too high skill rating and the A players are going up to near Pro levels. Does not leave room for players, we go from D a beginner to B- running out a rack easily. That is too close of a rating there, a B- would not often run out, they tend to make too many mistakes.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#A-D
"Here's an alternative and more-detailed interpretation of the A-D scale from Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool" (p.386):
D: A beginner or someone who plays so infrequently that their game remains in the beginner category.
C-: A below average player - this denotes a player with some recognizable skills who has definitely risen from the ranks of beginners. This is the first major milestone.
C: An average player - describes a large section of pool enthusiasts with experience whose games perhaps have leveled off, or that only play occasionally.
C+: Above average player - this group plays a very acceptable game of pool. They tend to dominate their level of competition.
B-: This is perhaps the biggest hurdle, as a good number of players peak at the C+ level. A B- is a good player who is quite capable of running a rack of Eight Ball or Nine Ball. However, they usually lack consistency.
B: A solid, advanced player - these players can run out fairly regularly, but lack a little consistency.
B+: Players at this level are often mistaken for lower level A players when they are playing well because they play a very tough, well-rounded game. They can run out from nearly anywhere at anytime.
A-: Another big jump is required to break through to the "A" level. This group of players could be classified as semi-pros or top amateurs. They are very skilled in nearly all facets of the game. They run out easily and very often.
A: A professional quality player who can compete with and occasionally beat all but the best players. Very skilled, solid, and consistent. Runs multiple racks quite often. Tough to beat.
A+: Touring Pro - the best. Skilled in every area of the game. Breaks and runs out multiple racks regularly. Definitely in a class by themselves."
OK, they are absolute measures
But what is my absolute measures in Peoria are
D Beginner
C is barely past beginner
B has some knowledge but can't run more than 3-4 balls on average, loose position play, bad safe
A can run 5-6-7 balls on average, can place cueball pretty well, can run 2 racks in 9 ball
AA solid player 7-8-9 ball runs often, 2-3 racks strung every few matches
??
It is not like either of us has some sort of trademark on the letters. And it is pretty likely there are others as sincere and knowledgable as you elsewhere who ascribe those same letters to different absolute performances.
Perhaps you should replace "B" with "Ride-the-9-B", or "Eastern MA B", or "Joes-Pool-Tour-B" If this is a New-England-Blue-Blood-Original-Colony thing, I think you should be explicit about it.
Again you don't get to bogart the letters.
You think about this now... I LIKE THOSE DESCRIPTIONS!!!!! I’ve never said I didn’t think they were good, they’re just not universal. Travel the country and see what I’ve seen, not everyone agrees, whether you like it or not.