Nope, been hearing them since I started playing. Do you see anything wrong in them they way I presented them? D is starting to learn, A players can string racks, now go from there yourself and see how the skill progression goes in the middle.
What skill level am I ?
- Thread starter Dunnn51
- Start date
Nope, been hearing them since I started playing. Do you see anything wrong in them they way I presented them? D is starting to learn, A players can string racks, now go from there yourself and see how the skill progression goes in the middle.
I think they’re perfectly acceptable.
So there is the issue, they are not used they way they should be, people are saying a foot is 13 inches in one place and 11 inches in another but it should be 12 inches everywhere. Those AZ ratings are relative, but still can be mapped almost 1 to 1 to Fargo or DCBA rating, same thing for APA or any other league.
I just think that when leagues and tours use the DCBA rating they should keep it standard, like they way Fargo does. A 500 in Fargo is a 500 in CA or in CT or in Israel. A B should be a B the same way.
Yes, but how? The level of play varies all over the place and these are very subjective ratings. I think the point is, it will never be perfect and to try and paint with a broad brush and say there are absolutes is a mistake.
Yes for an area the level of play varies, but a B is still a B there, just because they have more Bs in one place than another does not matter. If I play in Snookers vs my usual room, I did not get worse, the average players got better. I am still a good B player no matter where I am, I am just playing more players my skill level or better which makes my game seem weaker in comparison. But that does not mean that I am playing worse. I recently played a very good 10 ball match, I made 3 mistakes the whole match and lost (two missed kicks and a missed shot). I ran out from his mistakes all but one time. So am I a C player now because the other guy played better or am I still a B that played a better B or an A-?
Usually I do the ghost or number of balls you can make before making a mistake test. Let's say you take two players from different states, have them take ball in hand in a 9 ball rack after the break and have play 20 racks. Would their location make any difference in how well they did?
It does not matter where they are, driving 400 miles North will not make you all of a sudden play better or worse.
And you can easily map those just by taking the fact that a D player is a newer player and go from there. If a D is new, you can't have a C that can run a rack (at least not usually, sure a C can run 5-6 balls at times, but rarely). So if some local tour puts in a player that can run out, it is pretty clear there is no way they can be a C because that would make a D player a decent player, which they are not.
Last edited:
No, but that's the point. Aside from everyone jumping all around the country and playing each other we can only go by subjective ratings that are based on who and where you play. I don't understand why this has to be difficult or argued. It's a fact that players of similar skill sets are rated very differently by region. Fargo can hopefully close that gap but it's well documented that A-D is very flawed.
How would you rate a player vs the Ghost? For example, how often do you have to beat the ghost out of 10 to be an A or B, and what number ghost can a C or D beat.
I know there is much more than just the offensive nature of "the Ghost" to play at A/B level or above, but the ghost has been suggested to figure his handicap a few times here, thus my question.
My thoughts are as follows, tell me what you think:
A- Beats the ghost consistently on a 9 foot table with 4.5" pockets or bigger. Wins 70-80% of games against the ghost, especially if on an 8 foot home table.
Has excellent stroke mechanics and knowledge of the game in all aspects of the game. Very strong with safeties, and speed control is excellent.
B- Is capable of beating the ghost about 50% of the time, but this varies more by table and pocket size. Definitely the favorite on a home table, but may only win 30-40% of the time on a stronger 9'.
Has good stroke mechanics, and good knowledge about pool, but just isn't as consistent as the A player. May not play safeties as well, and while speed control is good, it isn't as good as the A player.
C- Cannot beat the 9 ball ghost. Often runs 5-6 balls, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on C- to C+, but finds their way out of line 90% of the time. May run 3 racks in a row once or twice a year, but usually runs out about 1 in 15 or 20 times, but would usually say it is more often.
If they are a strong C, they beat the 7 ball ghost sometimes, a weak C beats the 4-5 ball ghost 30-
50% of the time.
Has an idea about stroke mechanics, but is inconsistent with them, and never fully developed them. Has a solid idea about pattern play, and usually thinks 3 balls ahead in competition. Likes to play spin, but often uses it inappropriately, and frequently misses position due to poor speed control. Often plays across the line for the next shot instead of playing into it when they didn't have to. Often knows more about pool than they can successfully apply.
D-Has a chance to beat the 3-4 ball ghost, but doesn't do it with any consistency. Really doesn't have any legitimate understanding of pattern play, cue ball pathways, or appropriate spin, and needs legit work on their stroke.
Interested to hear what others think.
I know there is much more than just the offensive nature of "the Ghost" to play at A/B level or above, but the ghost has been suggested to figure his handicap a few times here, thus my question.
My thoughts are as follows, tell me what you think:
A- Beats the ghost consistently on a 9 foot table with 4.5" pockets or bigger. Wins 70-80% of games against the ghost, especially if on an 8 foot home table.
Has excellent stroke mechanics and knowledge of the game in all aspects of the game. Very strong with safeties, and speed control is excellent.
B- Is capable of beating the ghost about 50% of the time, but this varies more by table and pocket size. Definitely the favorite on a home table, but may only win 30-40% of the time on a stronger 9'.
Has good stroke mechanics, and good knowledge about pool, but just isn't as consistent as the A player. May not play safeties as well, and while speed control is good, it isn't as good as the A player.
C- Cannot beat the 9 ball ghost. Often runs 5-6 balls, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on C- to C+, but finds their way out of line 90% of the time. May run 3 racks in a row once or twice a year, but usually runs out about 1 in 15 or 20 times, but would usually say it is more often.
If they are a strong C, they beat the 7 ball ghost sometimes, a weak C beats the 4-5 ball ghost 30-
50% of the time.
Has an idea about stroke mechanics, but is inconsistent with them, and never fully developed them. Has a solid idea about pattern play, and usually thinks 3 balls ahead in competition. Likes to play spin, but often uses it inappropriately, and frequently misses position due to poor speed control. Often plays across the line for the next shot instead of playing into it when they didn't have to. Often knows more about pool than they can successfully apply.
D-Has a chance to beat the 3-4 ball ghost, but doesn't do it with any consistency. Really doesn't have any legitimate understanding of pattern play, cue ball pathways, or appropriate spin, and needs legit work on their stroke.
Interested to hear what others think.
JC
Coos Cues
Here I made the conversion to Fargo simple for you guys. As far as I can tell this is linear and quite accurate. I think Fargorate should make an attempt to quantify the DCBA rankings to translate to their system to get people thinking along the same lines regionally and the above is a good template. People will likely not stop using the lettering system so let's try to standardize it more to help give meaning.
JC
Thanks for your reply. I am quite new to Fargo rating .....i just joined usapl last session which reports to Fargo rate. I started as a 460 and have reached 511 with a robustness of 170..
We have a mixture of apa players such as myself and non league players in our league.
I was curious about my rating because we have two other apa 5's in our league whose ratings are a lot lower than mine. One is 422 and the other is 437. That is still lower than what you mentioned at 450.
And you are also pretty close in describing what you believe apa 6's and 7' should be. A couple of apa 6's are between 485 and 498. I played an apa 7/8 last Monday in both 8 and 9 ball. He is rated at 525. I won 8 ball 4-2 and lost 9 ball 4-3. I then replayed 9 ball vs a 514 and lost 5-2. He played pretty dang strong and ...not making excuses I did not play as good as I did the first 2 matches.
With being a bar banger most of my life ...calling shots in usapl 8 ball seems to suit me better than most apa players....even against the higher level ones it seems .
The results of my 8 ball matches seem to verify that line of thinking.
Winning 4-2 vs an apa 7
Winning 2 matches vs the other 2 apa 5's by the same score of 4-0.
They all give me a hard time with 9 ball though .
Again that is for your reply.
Last edited:
Going from what I can do and other players I know my level can do, a good B player can beat the 7 ball ghost. Which is about in line for average balls run for a good B with ball in hand in a full 9 ball rack.
I play in tournaments with a lot of C and B players, and these numbers is what I see.
D can run 1-2 balls
C 3-4
B 5-7
A 7+
Those would be averages over 10, 20 racks.
Usually the issue with the lower level players and 9 ball is lack of position play, 8 ball is more forgiving there so a C in 8 ball can probably run an extra ball or two in 8 ball vs 9 ball. It is not only how many balls you run, but how you run them out also. A C is often shooting harder shots, having to bank balls, etc... A D can often mess up position with ball in hand after the first ball if the balls are on opposite sides of the table. Same thing for safety play, a C or low B will leave an open shot most of the time they try a safe unless it's a very easy safe.
Last edited: