What the best way to taper a shaft?

[Cuemaster98]

Hi, Just wondering what the best way to taper a shaft, Router vs Sanding?

I have a shaft that is 13.15 mm and my client is looking to have it taper to 12.65mm. I was thinking of using the router to take it down but I remember Don Broos saying that it's very tricking because your shaft taper bar needs to be extra same as the existing shaft taper or you may destory the shaft or worse create chatter marks? Is sanding the safest best? What the best grit to use to take it down faster? 220?

Thanks,
Duc.

 

[Sheldon]

If you have the proper equipment, cutting is ALWAYS better. Sanding off more than a couple thousandths should always be avoided.

 

[icbm]

OK so this will ID me as the rookie I am, but here we go: Taper bar?

My first try I used a caliper on an old cue. Then took a pairing tool every 3 in down the shaft. Once I'd have the diameter down with the pairing tool out came the fluted bowl gouge and then many many many different peices of sandpaper.

So allow a rookie to ask of such experianced cue makers, what is a taper bar? Where might I get ahold of one? Would I need to make my own jig for it? I have an idea what it might be but please after you've finished laughing at me try and answer an honest rookie. Thanx

 

[MVPCues]

OK so this will ID me as the rookie I am, but here we go: Taper bar?

My first try I used a caliper on an old cue. Then took a pairing tool every 3 in down the shaft. Once I'd have the diameter down with the pairing tool out came the fluted bowl gouge and then many many many different peices of sandpaper.

So allow a rookie to ask of such experianced cue makers, what is a taper bar? Where might I get ahold of one? Would I need to make my own jig for it? I have an idea what it might be but please after you've finished laughing at me try and answer an honest rookie. Thanx

Typically, a taper bar is a metal bar machined/formed so one (or both) side of the bar is tapered, or curved, matching the taper of a shaft.

It is mounted behind a lathe or used in conjunction with a saw machine. As the cutter advances down the shaft, a follower rides along the bar, and the taper of the bar controls the depth of the cutter so the cut matches the contour of the bar.

Kelly

 

[Cue Crazy]

OK so this will ID me as the rookie I am, but here we go: Taper bar?

My first try I used a caliper on an old cue. Then took a pairing tool every 3 in down the shaft. Once I'd have the diameter down with the pairing tool out came the fluted bowl gouge and then many many many different peices of sandpaper.

So allow a rookie to ask of such experianced cue makers, what is a taper bar? Where might I get ahold of one? Would I need to make my own jig for it? I have an idea what it might be but please after you've finished laughing at me try and answer an honest rookie. Thanx

It's basically a jig or profile that lets the router positioning move in and out to cut a custom taper out. It's sort of like using woodlathe copier, only your cutting with the router, and instead of using/copying an actual work piece/spindle as your guide, You use the profile of the bars as the guide.

Here's a picture of a cue smith. The bars are located behind the shaft.

Greg

 

[icbm]

Thank you both for the replies and the help. I am on a real shoestring budget so buying a cuesmith may be a bit in the future. Off hand how much do they run? Is it possible to continue using my lathe and elbow greese or do I NEED a cuesmith?

 

[icbm]

Does that instrument cut on it's own or are you controling it?

 

[Sheldon]

CNC is the nuts.... program whatever taper you want, and duplicate it anytime.
It aint happening on a budget though....

 

[Cue Crazy]

Thank you both for the replies and the help. I am on a real shoestring budget so buying a cuesmith may be a bit in the future. Off hand how much do they run? Is it possible to continue using my lathe and elbow greese or do I NEED a cuesmith?

Anything is possible I suppose. I'm not sure what kind of lathe You have, so hard to answer the question. I can say that altough It can be done, a woodlathe would be less suitable, but the right metal lathe can be modified to work well. Either way It will usually take some cash unless some deals come Your way on the right lathe, and you have access to the correct surplus & materials, not to mention tooling, and so on. There is some fabrication, so knowledge of that sort is a pluss also.

The CS has to be setup. Then During use the lathe & router are turned on manually, but there is a powerfeed that makes the router move back and forth down the length of bedways. It has a forward and reverse toggle switch to operate It.

Wish I could be of more help. His videos or book would be a good way to get some ideas for somewhat little money. They do a good job of showing the basic operations, and may be good knowledge either way you decide to go.

Greg

 

[Varney Cues]

do I NEED a cuesmith?

Buy the Hightower book....read it...read it again. That'll answer most all of your questions. Then you can decide if you really want to be a cuemaker. You shouldn't even begin considering the concept...much less purchase ANY equipment...until AFTER you've read the book.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Hi, Just wondering what the best way to taper a shaft, Router vs Sanding?

I have a shaft that is 13.15 mm and my client is looking to have it taper to 12.65mm. I was thinking of using the router to take it down but I remember Don Broos saying that it's very tricking because your shaft taper bar needs to be extra same as the existing shaft taper or you may destory the shaft or worse create chatter marks? Is sanding the safest best? What the best grit to use to take it down faster? 220?

Thanks,
Duc.

If the shaft is not perfectly staight or perfectly chucked up, & you try to cut a new taper on the lathe, you will be cutting more off of one side, than the other. Resulting in an oval shaft, instead of round. I have a yardstick, that I cut off to 29". I use that to mark every inch, from the tip of the ferrule to the joint end, of the shaft. Then I take a measurement at each inch mark. I have developed a chart for each size of shaft. Then I chuck up the shaft ,with about 2" sticking out of the chuck. Center it with a dial indicator & cut the tip & ferrule, down to the new size. (Actually I leave it about .010" oversized, for sanding.) Then I chuck up the whole shaft, using a live center at the tip end. I spin & sand the shaft down to the size of the ferrule, by hand . I start with 800 grit sandpaper( working from the tip end towards the joint), then 220,320,400,600,1000 & finally 1500 grit. If you are only taking a 1/2 mm off, as you are, you will only want to retaper the last 18-20 inches from the tip. Otherwise you end up with a thin whippy shaft, that has no spine. It's harder to explain than it is to do, but I hope I have helped a little. You can contact me through my web site, if I can be of any more help...JER

 

[Dave38]

Chris Hightower's book and first video explains the the method used on a wood lathe and also the method described by Jerry. It's well worth the money to get the book, for future reference. To satisfy your customer now, you may have to wing it with 150 or 220 grit sandpaper, it will take some time, but very hard to overdue it as it is with a router, or cutter method that you haven't done before. Good luck and best wishes.
Dave

 

[manwon]

I would also add that when taking a shaft down by sanding, take your time and do not over heat / stress the wood. Also use a sanding mandrel, do not hold the sand paper by hand when re-tapering, you must keep even pressure throughout the process. Porper makes a sanding mandrel for shafts, that you put the sand paper in, I think they cost $20 or less. They have a concave section in the wood about 3 inches long, for the shaft to rest in, and a piece of attached leather to fold around the shaft and the sand paper for applying pressure while sanding.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Greg, how do you setup the router with the vacuum. Been looking at doing something like that for a while, is there a jig that I can buy for it? I have the cuesmith as well.

Craig, the sanding mandrel sound like another great product from Joe. I've been using a filler to take the shaft down to size and then use sand paper starting from 220. I tried 150 and it just too rough and doesn't seem to take anything off.

Regards,
Duc.

 

[icbm]

Thank you guys for the suggestions. I will look around the net for the hightower book and or video.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg, how do you setup the router with the vacuum. Been looking at doing something like that for a while, is there a jig that I can buy for it? I have the cuesmith as well.

Craig, the sanding mandrel sound like another great product from Joe. I've been using a filler to take the shaft down to size and then use sand paper starting from 220. I tried 150 and it just too rough and doesn't seem to take anything off.

Regards,
Duc.

Duc,
That is just something quick that I slapped together. It gets a good bit of debri but not all of it. I took a piece of alluminum flat I had gotton from home depot or ace, and Used My large anvil vice for a break to bend it while it was still long so that the lenth gave me some leverage to bend it. I cut it to size afterwards, made a hole just a hair smaller then My hose, so that When Pushed in, It's holds it'self in there. I drilled a hole on the other side to run a bolt through the router mount slot to hold the hose bracket on. I did cut a knotch out under the bolt hole so that the bracket would fit down over the base of the router mount. The bolt I used has a flat that fits the slot of the router bracket perfect, so the head does'nt spin or need held with a wrench, all I have to do is tighten the nut. Here's a closer picture of it.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Hi, Just wondering what the best way to taper a shaft, Router vs Sanding?

I have a shaft that is 13.15 mm and my client is looking to have it taper to 12.65mm. I was thinking of using the router to take it down but I remember Don Broos saying that it's very tricking because your shaft taper bar needs to be extra same as the existing shaft taper or you may destory the shaft or worse create chatter marks? Is sanding the safest best? What the best grit to use to take it down faster? 220?

Thanks,
Duc.

Without reading everyones posts..........

Sanding longer than 30/60 seconds on a shaft=trouble.........

 

[almer]

Duc,
That is just something quick that I slapped together. It gets a good bit of debri but not all of it. I took a piece of alluminum flat I had gotton from home depot or ace, and Used My large anvil vice for a break to bend it while it was still long so that the lenth gave me some leverage to bend it. I cut it to size afterwards, made a hole just a hair smaller then My hose, so that When Pushed in, It's holds it'self in there. I drilled a hole on the other side to run a bolt through the router mount slot to hold the hose bracket on. I did cut a knotch out under the bolt hole so that the bracket would fit down over the base of the router mount. The bolt I used has a flat that fits the slot of the router bracket perfect, so the head does'nt spin or need held with a wrench, all I have to do is tighten the nut. Here's a closer picture of it.

How many rpms do you run this setup at,is that a 3/4 bit

 

[Cue Crazy]

How many rpms do you run this setup at,is that a 3/4 bit

It's a belt & pully system on the headstock, and I have no tach setup on It, so I have no way of measuring the rpm's yet. I just experiemented with the spindle speed, and different feed speeds until I found the ones that worked for Me. No control on the router, It just runs wide open. Yes the router bit in the picture is a 3/4. Greg

 

[Cuemaster98]

Without reading everyones posts..........

Sanding longer than 30/60 seconds on a shaft=trouble.........

So I shouldn't be sanding longer than 30/60 sec interval?? I am assuming you are referring to the heat that is generated which could potential warp the shaft. Is there anything that I should be aware if I'm sanding the shaft down to size? thanks

I used a soft backed sanding block when sanding and it seem to have work great. My friend told me to use Norton 3x and it only took less than 10 min to take down a shaft to size.