What type of audience is best for tv pool?

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Boring can't be an excuse. Why? Golf is why. Golf viewership is huge. I know waaaaay more play golf but still the #'s that watch golf are massive. I for one have never thought pro 9ball on a big table to be boring to watch. I've watched some streams with friends that play but aren't super avid fans and they loved it. They now watch a lot of new and archived matches. I've tried watching snooker and to me THAT is boring. They are phenomenal players but the matches are toooo long and the safety battles turn it in to a snooze-fest. Definitely an acquired taste.
TV golf production has evolved and is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than live, on the course. They jump from one hole to the next and keep it movin'. I attended a pro golf event live, and hated it, why because it took so long waiting for the players to reach the green and if you weren't at the green 30 minutes before hand, you had to be my ht. 6'6'' to enjoy seeeeeeeing the shot. But the players are diverse, dress well and generally act in a polished/mature manner.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Designed for all levels, yes, but set up for the audience you want. Most of the time courses are designed for all levels or some subset of levels. There are many courses I won't take my daughter to, because they are too hard for her to enjoy. I myself enjoy any course as long as it's not set up for a pro tournament. Things like super fast greens, pin positions, or rough so thick you can lose your ball a foot off the fairway and can't advance it more than three feet even if you do find it. Stuff like that makes the course unplayable for me but is a differentiator for the pros. It also makes the game somewhat watchable for me - I know the differences in course setup and how hard some of those shots are. Other things are also done when the pros come, things like manicured fairways without divots, well maintained bunkers, and water that has been clarified (that's a big one, you should see Augusta National in the offseason). Just look at the Masters last year, without all the blossoms and birds. It was a much different experience for the TV audience. All are beautification things for the TV audience, and some even make the game easier for the pros. Pros don't play on beginner courses, there's no amount of setup that can be done to make it challenging enough. That's where I think pool is, you can set up existing tables for better amateurs, but not to differentiate pros. You need tables that are never easy enough for the lower half of the amateur crowd.

Yet still, even with those things, golf courses have to make real changes in the design if they want the pros to keep coming. They have to provide variance from year to year for that select group. That's something pool doesn't provide.

The attitude in St. Louis is to do what you can to get existing players back. About 40% of the leagues are still shut down, so the APA lost a lot of revenue last year while working harder than ever. They've been rescheduling events instead of canceling them so players still get what they were promised, but each time they reschedule it gets harder. Once people feel safe being indoors for prolonged periods, the interest will still be there and there may even be an explosion, it's just a question of time and whether they can endure the storm until then.
Biggest difference in Golf and Pool is that Golfers know and respect how hard the game is, in Pool, you have APA 3s thinking they can beat pros and have no respect whatsoever for the difficulty and skill requires to play at top level.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
I'm actually the one guy on this forum that keeps saying American pool needs to embrace the Mosconi Cup atmosphere as the whole if you want to build the popularity of the game.

9 ball is boring. Plain and simple... What makes the Mosconi Cup entertaining is the atmosphere, and the national spirit that's thick in the air. A healthy rivalry helps a bunch as well. The game they play at the Mosconi doesn't matter.
Bunch of us have been saying that for a long time
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
It's not the draw for them, just like it's not the draw for golf. People who haven't played golf hate watching it on TV. The PGA support for The First Tee and other beginner-level programs, that's their part in the draw. That and the charities they support, their foundations, player involvement in the community, etc. It's really not their job to draw people into the sport, but because of all that other stuff people are willing to volunteer to run the programs at the lowest levels. Once people are introduced to the sport it becomes watchable, until then it is not. Each of those leagues you mention has it's own target market, and none of them, APA included, is at the base level. I'd say top-down in terms of playing ability of their target market it's BCA/CSI, TAP, then APA. But there are pieces missing below APA and above BCA. What's interesting, though, is that the missing pieces are those who don't profit directly from the participants or at all. It's understandable, because those pieces take the longest to establish.
As a teenager I used to watch golf on TV, without ever playing it. The reason was I had a golf game on my W95 PC and it got me interested. I'd imagine there has to be some parallel with pool video games. Even without playing the real game, it builds interest. I later went on to play golf for our high school team for a few years. I kind of lost interest after high school because I never got very good at golf and found other activities more interesting, but the point stands, video games got me interested in a sport that is as boring to watch as watching the grass grow. Also Happy Gilmore was hugely popular at the time, about an outsider and filled with laughs.

At times in my life, I played all the above games, and during those times I also watched them on TV. Out of all of them, pool is the least viewable. I do watch it, but at no time am I at awe of what the players do. That said, the recent posting of the Corey Deuel carom/bank/clear the road 8ball impressed the crap out of me.
You hit the nail on the head, this is the most interesting thing I've ever seen go down in a match, a series of "magic" that just doesn't happen regularly:

 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
True true true. Pool is an extremely refined craft and people prepared to that degree should be representative of pro pool. So there you are back at square one.
Just as a supportive observation, Asia and Europe don't have the foot, base, and basket ball cartels and pet population that the USA does. Sure they got other big sports but they have large populations of [still humans] who see the attraction of pool and are willing to undertake the discipline of learning.
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As a teenager I used to watch golf on TV, without ever playing it. The reason was I had a golf game on my W95 PC and it got me interested. I'd imagine there has to be some parallel with pool video games. Even without playing the real game, it builds interest. I later went on to play golf for our high school team for a few years. I kind of lost interest after high school because I never got very good at golf and found other activities more interesting, but the point stands, video games got me interested in a sport that is as boring to watch as watching the grass grow. Also Happy Gilmore was hugely popular at the time, about an outsider and filled with laughs.


You hit the nail on the head, this is the most interesting thing I've ever seen go down in a match, a series of "magic" that just doesn't happen regularly:

I never get tired of watching that runout
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 3 pack!!
Silver Member
Been watching alot of tourneys and have watched several womens' tourneys from Asia. Incredible skill, it's just amazing how good these ladies are. But you talk about quiet and non-animated! I don't know anything much about Asian culture but I assume it is due to that, plus authoritarian regimes such that the populace is just "reserved?" The audience politely claps briefly and that's it. It does seem that their audiences do understand the game. As for the players? Hardly ever show any emotion whatsoever and rarely crack a smile. I guess that's awesome to keep the heart rate down anyway! It would be interesting to learn how players in China are "groomed" to become champions. Wow, they're good!

I watched one from Singapore (EDIT: I think it was Jakarta, Indonesia) and the audience was much more into it. And I watched a dart tourney recently from across the pond and now, that is something else! LOL, have you ever seen one? Those people, it's party time! Chanting, singing, I guess they're drunk, lol. But I got to thinking that if that were a pool tourney, it could still work if you had continuous chatter and noise instead of something sudden. Pool players and golfers don't like sudden noise!

So, what is the key to make pool interesting on tv? One thing I thought about is... if you are trying to attract more non pool playing audience, if you're an announcer, you shouldn't assume that the audience understands what the heck you're talking about. They don't. And you should have graphics on screen that highlight the object ball AND the next object ball so people can understand why top level pool is difficult and requires such amazing skill. And explain what shooting safe means. Other than "educational" comments, it would help to have more color overall. Just invite Earl, I guess.

Just curious, are there any tourneys available on youtube that are somewhat more lively?
Lively? Mosconi Cup!
...
Have you ever watched a boxing or MMA match from Asia? (I'm talking about back when there were full stadiums.) Silence during those events is very strange.
 

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
Lively? Mosconi Cup!
...
Have you ever watched a boxing or MMA match from Asia? (I'm talking about back when there were full stadiums.) Silence during those events is very strange.

It could be their govt is making them do that.

That makes more sense than their being calm due to respecting the game.


Jeff Livingston
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who watched the cyclocross world championships this weekend?
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kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Actually, another way to look at it is... youtube. I don't watch pool on tv, I watch it on youtube. Are players compensated? As youtube grows and becomes ubiquitous in more countries, do pool players get royalties? Musicians don't get much but some. Of course, viewership of pool on youtube probably isn't very big.

YouTube (or whatever replaces it someday) is the future of pro pool. TV, where people tune in at a certain time to watch something, is dead except for NFL. Pool videos are popular enough to drive meaningful revenue for players. And 9b is well suited to a 15 minute, edited clip. Accustats' viewer numbers for 10 year old matches are incredible. Hopefully someone with marketing and organizational skills puts it together soon. I would give winners a share of any YouTube revenue to.encourage them to promote the matches through their own social channels.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Apologies for taking solo ownership of that soapbox. There's been a few threads where I've voiced that opinion lately, and didn't get much if any support.
Whats funny is nobody grows up playing in silence, then all of a sudden they can't make a ball if people are talking??? I would miss every ball if it were silent lol

Long live Mosconi Cup even though the silence while shooting is still weird
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
YouTube (or whatever replaces it someday) is the future of pro pool. TV, where people tune in at a certain time to watch something, is dead except for NFL
...or PGA if you're a fan,
or MLB if you're a fan,
or Tennis if you're a fan,
or NASCAR if you're a fan,
or even the snooker worlds if you're a fan....etc

The NFL is not the only thing going on TV that garners attention. In fact I know several NFL serious fans that rather PVR the games and skip all the crap between the plays.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Whats funny is nobody grows up playing in silence, then all of a sudden they can't make a ball if people are talking??? I would miss every ball if it were silent lol

Long live Mosconi Cup even though the silence while shooting is still weird
I know right...lol.. I cut my teeth playing snooker in a basement level pool room that was incredibly loud and slammed with kids from the highschool. Worst part was the smoke... You had to adopt a low stance just to get under the cloud of smoke so you could see your shot....

These days guys in my local room will loose their minds if a cricket farts at the other side of the hall when they're shooting
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Biggest difference in Golf and Pool is that Golfers know and respect how hard the game is, in Pool, you have APA 3s thinking they can beat pros and have no respect whatsoever for the difficulty and skill requires to play at top level.
Got that right.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Whats funny is nobody grows up playing in silence, then all of a sudden they can't make a ball if people are talking??? I would miss every ball if it were silent lol

Long live Mosconi Cup even though the silence while shooting is still weird
Have a buddy, good player, that can't make a ball unless Ozzie or some other 80's metal band is CRANKED. Put on country and he drops about 3 balls.
 
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