What type of audience is best for tv pool?

[The_JV]

Definitely, with current technology, there should be things like the moving/superimposed 1st down line in football. That one invention revolutionized the sport for those not super into football, hockey does a similar thing with hard to see pucks at times. I sound like I'm on a soapbox, but 9B when played at high levels just looks stupidly easy. No one wants to see paint by numbers and that's what 9B is.

I agree to a point... Football needed that 1st down line superimposed, otherwise from your couch you had no real idea where it was. Adding that gave something for the TV watching fans to engage with. The red/blue streak crap in hockey was sad imo. Didn't last very long, and turned more people off then anything else. I don't know what's to be gained or how they could do it in a non-cheesy manner with pool.

9b is stupid easy... The biggest thing one can achieve in a game is a break/run. Nearly all players can claim that feat at least once. Now add the consistency of the pro, and watching it is nearly pointless. What can make 9b more exciting...? Maybe windmills guarding the corner pockets, and clown heads snapping their teeth shut for the sides.

I watched some russian pyramid the other day on youtube. To the completely uninititated, it's confusing as hell. What kept me tuned in for the short while was the insanely tight pockets. It was a miracle they ever made a ball.

 

[garczar]

I agree to a point... Football needed that 1st down line superimposed, otherwise from your couch you had no real idea where it was. Adding that gave something for the TV watching fans to engage with. The red/blue streak crap in hockey was sad imo. Didn't last very long, and turned more people off then anything else. I don't know what's to be gained or how they could do it in a non-cheesy manner with pool.

9b is stupid easy... The biggest thing one can achieve in a game is a break/run. Nearly all players can claim that feat at least once. Now add the consistency of the pro, and watching it is nearly pointless. What can make 9b more exciting...? Maybe windmills guarding the corner pockets, and clown heads snapping their teeth shut for the sides.

I take it you never watch the Mosconi Cup? Plenty of excitement there. For pool to work with average sports fans it will have to be fast, exciting(has to be a luck factor) and easy to understand. 8b or 9b would work. I'm not talking about China where robotic fans watch robotic players play Chinese 8ball. I'd rather watch grass grow.

 

[The_JV]

I take it you never watch the Mosconi Cup? Plenty of excitement there. For pool to work with average sports fans it will have to be fast, exciting(has to be a luck factor) and easy to understand. 8b or 9b would work. I'm not talking about China where robotic fans watch robotic players play Chinese 8ball. I'd rather watch grass grow.

I'm actually the one guy on this forum that keeps saying American pool needs to embrace the Mosconi Cup atmosphere as the whole if you want to build the popularity of the game.

9 ball is boring. Plain and simple... What makes the Mosconi Cup entertaining is the atmosphere, and the national spirit that's thick in the air. A healthy rivalry helps a bunch as well. The game they play at the Mosconi doesn't matter.

 

[garczar]

I'm actually the one guy on this forum that keeps saying American pool needs to embrace the Mosconi Cup atmosphere as the whole if you want to build the popularity of the game.

9 ball is boring. Plain and simple... What makes the Mosconi Cup entertaining is the atmosphere, and the national spirit that's thick in the air. A healthy rivalry helps a bunch as well. The game they play at the Mosconi doesn't matter.

Really? Let 'em play straight-pool or 14.1 Pool-on-tv will have to be quik and easy to follow. Why do you think that ESPN's most watched pool shows were those trick-shot deals? Easy to follow for fans who know nothing about pool.

 

[The_JV]

Really? Let 'em play straight-pool or 14.1 Pool-on-tv will have to be quik and easy to follow. Why do you think that ESPN's most watched pool shows were those trick-shot deals? Easy to follow for fans who know nothing about pool.

yep really...

Trick shot displays draw audiences because people get to see goofy crap that would never happen in an actual match. oh... and you generally get to see some hot chick in skimpy clothes laying all the over the table.

I have zero doubt viewership on trick shows is higher than regular match play. In one them you likely to be entertained. It's a comparison between: "Hey, did you see that guy make that hot chick put stuff in her mouth and lay on the table..?.. ya then he jumped some ball over her or some crap like that" vs "Ya this guy couldn't hit the ball he wanted to so he banked it first to make the hit, but lost anyway...".

Pool is boring to watch... Nothing to engage the average non-pool playing joe. Mosconi is fun to watch because you get to see your nations honour being defended, and are allowed to cheer your team on.

 

[chefjeff]

(s ip)

The attitude in St. Louis is to do what you can to get existing players back. About 40% of the leagues are still shut down, so the APA lost a lot of revenue last year while working harder than ever. They've been rescheduling events instead of canceling them so players still get what they were promised, but each time they reschedule it gets harder. Once people feel safe being indoors for prolonged periods, the interest will still be there and there may even be an explosion, it's just a question of time and whether they can endure the storm until then.

Thanks for the info.

40% still down? Dang.


Jeff Livingston

 

[Island Drive]

yep really...

Trick shot displays draw audiences because people get to see goofy crap that would never happen in an actual match. oh... and you generally get to see some hot chick in skimpy clothes laying all the over the table.

I have zero doubt viewership on trick shows is higher than regular match play. In one them you likely to be entertained. It's a comparison between: "Hey, did you see that guy make that hot chick put stuff in her mouth and lay on the table..?.. ya then he jumped some ball over her or some crap like that" vs "Ya this guy couldn't hit the ball he wanted to so he banked it first to make the hit, but lost anyway...".

Pool is boring to watch... Nothing to engage the average non-pool playing joe. Mosconi is fun to watch because you get to see your nations honour being defended, and are allowed to cheer your team on.

Our game will never be in any of our life times a Major Sport of the masses, it has it's plateau.
No different than snooker in Europe compared to Soccer.
There are many things one can do to improve the production, format and viewer interest in pocket billiards, but's there's' a ceiling that once it's reached, it's Extremely if not impossible to get past.... reality.
More often than not.... pro pool is very boring too watch, unless it's Shaw in the finals or Earl in dead stroke in his youth.....my only interest is I might learn something about board play or safety play, which non players have no clue about.
I more often, find more interesting things happening when I watch not very good players shoot because?
Quite often there are ball collisions/caroms/luck shots that happen. Those moments, create and offer shots that one never sees in professional play.
It's something I used to do in the pool rooms during my down time, when not playing.
Watching the bangers....things happen that one would NEVER see in pro play.

 

[Geosnookery]

I think there's some truth in this. In a nine ball match, if a top 25 in the world is perfect on the four ball, they'll run out 90% or the time, often making the next six shots both routine and boring to watch. I think for me, this explains why I've always believed the tactics, defense and kicking to be the most interesting part of the game, but one cannot expect the casual fan to embrace the finer points of the play (you know, the parts often omitted in the youtube videos of matches).

As we saw at this year's Mosconi, tougher equipment makes the runouts far more challenging and, at least for this fan, more interesting to watch. The equipment has to compensate for just how straight the top players of today really shoot. There are far more straight shooters today than fifteen years ago, but equipment is about the same, so the game does, as you suggest, look too easy.

By comparison, even though there are far more misses on a snooker table, viewers understand just how difficult the conditions are and appreciate that even the world's best miss quite a bit.

I agree.

one caveat. There aren’t many true ‘misses‘ on a Snooker table. Often not one in a game. The Principal goal on many shots is to play the white ‘safe’ and sinking the object ball Is just a bonus. You might see this a half dozen shots in a row.

American pool players often try their hand on a Snooker table and get frustrated by misses. They actually are good players but don’t realize that even good snooker players would miss many of those shots. The difference is the snooker player is thinking Safety first and not sinking a ball. Snooker players often are forcing opponents to hit ( not sink) a red and leaving the white in an advantageous position.

 

[APA Operator]

We have a lot of leagues where i play. BCA/CSI, APA, TAP etc. Few, if ANY, of the players know anything or care about pro pool. If tv/streaming has little-to-zero effect on these players how is it ever going to draw sports fans who play next to no pool?

It's not the draw for them, just like it's not the draw for golf. People who haven't played golf hate watching it on TV. The PGA support for The First Tee and other beginner-level programs, that's their part in the draw. That and the charities they support, their foundations, player involvement in the community, etc. It's really not their job to draw people into the sport, but because of all that other stuff people are willing to volunteer to run the programs at the lowest levels. Once people are introduced to the sport it becomes watchable, until then it is not. Each of those leagues you mention has it's own target market, and none of them, APA included, is at the base level. I'd say top-down in terms of playing ability of their target market it's BCA/CSI, TAP, then APA. But there are pieces missing below APA and above BCA. What's interesting, though, is that the missing pieces are those who don't profit directly from the participants or at all. It's understandable, because those pieces take the longest to establish.

 

[garczar]

yep really...

Trick shot displays draw audiences because people get to see goofy crap that would never happen in an actual match. oh... and you generally get to see some hot chick in skimpy clothes laying all the over the table.

I have zero doubt viewership on trick shows is higher than regular match play. In one them you likely to be entertained. It's a comparison between: "Hey, did you see that guy make that hot chick put stuff in her mouth and lay on the table..?.. ya then he jumped some ball over her or some crap like that" vs "Ya this guy couldn't hit the ball he wanted to so he banked it first to make the hit, but lost anyway...".

Pool is boring to watch... Nothing to engage the average non-pool playing joe. Mosconi is fun to watch because you get to see your nations honour being defended, and are allowed to cheer your team on.

Boring can't be an excuse. Why? Golf is why. Golf viewership is huge. I know waaaaay more play golf but still the #'s that watch golf are massive. I for one have never thought pro 9ball on a big table to be boring to watch. I've watched some streams with friends that play but aren't super avid fans and they loved it. They now watch a lot of new and archived matches. I've tried watching snooker and to me THAT is boring. They are phenomenal players but the matches are toooo long and the safety battles turn it in to a snooze-fest. Definitely an acquired taste.

 

[APA Operator]

I more often, find more interesting things happening when I watch not very good players shoot because?

Once strength and physical conditioning became more important in pro golf, I found the LPGA to be more watchable than the PGA. I think it's because I can actually take more away from the way those ladies swing and the strategies they use (bomb it over all the trouble is not an option for them).

 

[The_JV]

Boring can't be an excuse. Why? Golf is why. Golf viewership is huge. I know waaaaay more play golf but still the #'s that watch golf are massive. I for one have never thought pro 9ball on a big table to be boring to watch. I've watched some streams with friends that play but aren't super avid fans and they loved it. They now watch a lot of new and archived matches. I've tried watching snooker and to me THAT is boring. They are phenomenal players but the matches are toooo long and the safety battles turn it in to a snooze-fest. Definitely an acquired taste.

See, what you're describing is viewership based on playing the game. What happens in golf isn't boring to those who play golf. No different then tennis, or snooker, or the people who defend that it's worth watching an entire NBA game rather than just the last 2mins....lol.

At times in my life, I played all the above games, and during those times I also watched them on TV. Out of all of them, pool is the least viewable. I do watch it, but at no time am I at awe of what the players do. That said, the recent posting of the Corey Deuel carom/bank/clear the road 8ball impressed the crap out of me.

What makes a pro a pro, is their consistency. 80% of what shots they do, any average player can do. 98% of what shots they can do a decently strong player can. The "awe" in what pool pros do is accumulation of successfully made "decently strong" shots over the course of a tournament. Unfortunately efforts over the course of a tourney doesn't translate to the remote viewer. It's rare to see something done by a pool pro, that a regular joe thinks is unreachable for him. Hell even that Deuel shot thread has people chiming in saying it was wired and anyone could have made it. Can anyone make that shot...?..., sure. Will even 5% of people even see that shot to begin with..?.., not a chance.

I think highlight reels of top players posted on sports networks could catch a person's eye. Kinda like the insane run out Melling did a while back. Shot after shot that makes you shake your head. Just so happened that Chris managed to jam them all into a single rack.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I see there's like 90 replies so I'm not going to read them all and this may have already been said. The answer is actually simple, money, nothing else.

Nobody watches a stupid show like the Wall because it's interesting to watch it's because people can win a millions of dollars.

Since there's never going to be big money in pool there's never going to be an audience. Even pool players don't watch pool. They like to play pool but they don't care that much about watching it and they'll never pay.

 

[garczar]

I see there's like 90 replies so I'm not going to read them all and this may have already been said. The answer is actually simple, money, nothing else.

Nobody watches a stupid show like the Wall because it's interesting to watch it's because people can win a millions of dollars.

Since there's never going to be big money in pool there's never going to be an audience. Even pool players don't watch pool. They like to play pool but they don't care that much about watching it and they'll never pay.

Partially agree here. Reason i say partially is because games like f^&*ing cornhole are on tv and not pool. Those guys don't get paid much yet there must be enough braindead couch surfers around to sweat it.

 

[Black-Balled]

Best audience is a paying one.

Am I late with that?

 

[sjm]

I see there's like 90 replies so I'm not going to read them all and this may have already been said. The answer is actually simple, money, nothing else.

Nobody watches a stupid show like the Wall because it's interesting to watch it's because people can win a millions of dollars.

Since there's never going to be big money in pool there's never going to be an audience. Even pool players don't watch pool. They like to play pool but they don't care that much about watching it and they'll never pay.

I disagree. It is not money that brings excitement. It is excitement that brings money. In 2006, Kevin Trudeau's IPT Reno event had a $500,000 first prize, won by Reyes, but noone watched. Earlier that same year, his IPT Las Vegas event, won by Hohmann, had a first prize of $350,000 and noone watched. His tour folded without completing its first season.

When fans tune in, the money goes up. This may, in turn, bring excitement, but in the end, it comes down to the quality of the product. If pool will never gather a substantial audience, it will have nothing to do with the size of the payouts and everything to do with the fact that the pool product fails to garner the interest of fans.

Sadly, most of the pros see this your way. They feel their sport will take off once they are paid enough, overlooking that it is their responsibility to work with sponsors and event producers to make the pro pool product worth watching. If they are able to do so, the money will find them, but if they sit around taking the view that only an injection of money into pool will save them, they are destined to continue working cheap in relative obscurity.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I disagree. It is not money that brings excitement. It is excitement that brings money. In 2006, Kevin Trudeau's IPT Reno event had a $500,000 first prize, won by Reyes, but noone watched. Earlier that same year, his IPT Las Vegas event, won by Hohmann, had a first prize of $350,000 and noone watched. His tour folded without completing its first season.

When fans tune in, the money goes up. This may, in turn, bring excitement, but in the end, it comes down to the quality of the product. If pool will never gather a substantial audience, it will have nothing to do with the size of the payouts and everything to do with the fact that the pool product fails to garner the interest of fans.

Sadly, most of the pros see this your way. They feel their sport will take off once they are paid enough, overlooking that it is their responsibility to work with sponsors and event producers to make the pro pool product worth watching. If they are able to do so, the money will find them, but if they sit around taking the view that only an injection of money into pool will save them, they are destined to continue working cheap in relative in obscurity.

The problem with the IPT was, beyond this forum and the tiny sub-culture of the pool world noone knew it existed. The honest truth is, pool is not at all watchable. In fact the better the players play the more boring it is. In golf a guy hits a ball 200 yards to within a yard of the cup. It is almost like magic to anyone watching. Pool is a joke to watch. I guy knocks a ball in from 4 feet into a pocket more then twice as big as the ball. You and I know it is difficult but it looks easy.

I remember watching a ball game on tv and someone asked why they foul off so many balls. I guy who played baseball explained how hard it is to hit a round object with another round object, (The bat). The contact has to be perfect or the ball goes off in another direction. That is what takes place in pool. You are hitting a round object with another round object. Adding to that the cue tip striking the cueball to set it all in motion and it is actually quite difficult. You and I know that but the average watcher doesn't, to them you are doing nothing really.
And like I said, the better it is done the easier it looks and the less watchable it is.

Pool seems like a game almost designed for the small screen, but history has proven it's not. Just too boring. Today with all the competition for peoples attention pool has almost not chance of some kind of breakthrough. Pool as any kind of real sport may be very well close to the end. While it may still have a small sub-cultural following, to the public it is just a way to pass some time having a few beers.

 

[The_JV]

to the public it is just a way to pass some time having a few beers.

Much like that cornhole game that heavily televised and has a nation wide professional league...?

 

[middleofnowhere]

Much like that cornhole game that heavily televised and has a nation wide professional league...?

You can see advantages cornhole has over pool

Bag Man: How Frank Geers Is Growing the Sport of Cornhole

A pastime moves from the backyard to the screen

musebycl.io

 

[livemusic]

The problem with the IPT was, beyond this forum and the tiny sub-culture of the pool world noone knew it existed. The honest truth is, pool is not at all watchable. In fact the better the players play the more boring it is. In golf a guy hits a ball 200 yards to within a yard of the cup. It is almost like magic to anyone watching. Pool is a joke to watch. I guy knocks a ball in from 4 feet into a pocket more then twice as big as the ball. You and I know it is difficult but it looks easy.

I remember watching a ball game on tv and someone asked why they foul off so many balls. I guy who played baseball explained how hard it is to hit a round object with another round object, (The bat). The contact has to be perfect or the ball goes off in another direction. That is what takes place in pool. You are hitting a round object with another round object. Adding to that the cue tip striking the cueball to set it all in motion and it is actually quite difficult. You and I know that but the average watcher doesn't, to them you are doing nothing really.
And like I said, the better it is done the easier it looks and the less watchable it is.

Pool seems like a game almost designed for the small screen, but history has proven it's not. Just too boring. Today with all the competition for peoples attention pool has almost not chance of some kind of breakthrough. Pool as any kind of real sport may be very well close to the end. While it may still have a small sub-cultural following, to the public it is just a way to pass some time having a few beers.

Probably a lot of truth in your post. I don't know what is considered pool's heyday. What is it? Anyway, I was thinking of pool prior to the 60s. Every town had a pool hall. Then the early 60s and tv came along. Prior to tv, there wasn't much one could do for entertainment. And pool was cheap, so, the pools halls were in all the towns.

And now we're wondering why pool can't get on tv, lol.

Actually, another way to look at it is... youtube. I don't watch pool on tv, I watch it on youtube. Are players compensated? As youtube grows and becomes ubiquitous in more countries, do pool players get royalties? Musicians don't get much but some. Of course, viewership of pool on youtube probably isn't very big. But it's a big world. I guess the pool network/promoter gets the dough.