What would you do in this situation, and what Efren did

[8pack]

I done a couple of video's on shots people should really practice.
That was one of the shot's in my video's.
Once you practice a little bit it's not hard to execute.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoOqFpik7es

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHA3Dw7jttA

 

[SoniDJ]

IMO it would be a common shot to a player

 

[Rod]

Did someone mention older players? Actually Neil is right, variations of this shot are not that uncommon. I call them delayed draw shots. That is, you can not draw the cue ball straight back or have it react to fast. Efren is not hooked, the only reason for the jump is to clear the 4 ball. It will do that naturally with an elevated cue. It was a good shot no doubt about that.

Another similar shot is with follow. You have a ball next to, but past your object ball. The only position route is with follow but you have to clear the opposing ball. Jack up, shoot the ball in and the c/b jumps over the other ball and follows down table. You have to of been around a few years and have good imagination.

Rod

 

[nathandumoulin]

...that is not that uncommon a shot...

...here we go again.

Apparently Efren needs to come up with quadruple-jump-rail-first-kick-swerve-draw shots, else Neil isn't going to be impressed.

(just a friendly cheap shot Neil )

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[peter_gunn]

No problem Nathan. :smile: The thing that makes Efren different than most, is that he shoots the shots he's supposed to shoot. Such as this one. As I stated, most today right away want to play safe. If Efren sees the shot, he takes it, having confidence in making it.

But, just so you know, Efren DOES impress me. In my worthless opinion, he is one of the few that play the game right. And, while no wheres near as consistent as him, my game style is similar to his. If I see a shot, I'm going for it. If I miss it, I know what to practice. So many "duck" today, that they don't even know a lot of the "old" shots. You can't run packages by ducking.

I learned a long time ago, that the better safe I played on someone, the luckier they seemed to get! So, I learned to make the shot and try not to let my opponent to the table. I'm no wheres near as good as the pros, because I don't play enough to be consistent enough. But, that philosophy has paid very good dividends for me.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[mullyman]

I'm with Neil. Good shot, but not a jaw dropper by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing that really impresses me is that he actually thought of it during a match and had the pills to do it. The shot itself though isn't the do all end all that some are making it out to be.
MULLY

 

[Cornerman]

After looking at the video, I'm not too sure that he was even hooked from making the one. He WAS hooked from position off the one. The jump clears him from the four, and the draw brings him uptable.

Not to take anything away from Efren, but that is not that uncommon a shot. He does make it look easy though. If I remember right, it's also in one of Robert Byrnes books.

Completely agree with you, Neil. Even I've shot this shot (or very similar) in competition.

Fred

 

[inside_english]

I'm with Neil. Good shot, but not a jaw dropper by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing that really impresses me is that he actually thought of it during a match and had the pills to do it. The shot itself though isn't the do all end all that some are making it out to be.
MULLY

I agree. The shot itself is impressive but not awe-inspiring. The fact that he chose to do it against Johnny Archer in a tournament is impressive to me. One miss = one loss at this level...or maybe two if the format was alternate break.

Great post though...always fun to watch Efren do something unusual (by today's standards, Neil) during a match.

Thanks for the link.

 

[alstl]

It is interesting that people think this is a fairly common shot. There are thousands of hours of pool videos on youtube. Perhaps someone can find another video of this shot being executed in a match and post it here.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Efren jacked up, used a ton of low left English, and jumped the cue ball over the four, the cue ball got almost to the five and the English took and it came straight back down for the two ball. And of course, he ran out from there.

The english was right, not left. With draw, of course.

As many stated, this shot isn't *that* unusual, but I think we're overlooking the amount of control demonstrated. This shot is NOT "make the 1, jump the 4, then delay-draw up table". This shot is "make the 1, jump the 4, then go almost, but not all the way to the 5 before the draw takes, and draw enough to avoid the 5, but not so much as to hit the 8, with speed to get to the end rail and back out for a nice gentle angle on the 2." That's ridiculous. That's what elevates this from a shot that a top player is supposed to see and execute, to a shot that hammers home the simple truth that Efren Reyes is a magic man with a cue in his hand.

Take a second look at how much room for error he had between delaying the draw too much and hitting the 5, or not delaying the draw enough and hitting the 8. Ridiculous!

-Andrew

 

[Williebetmore]

It is interesting that people think this is a fairly common shot. There are thousands of hours of pool videos on youtube. Perhaps someone can find another video of this shot being executed in a match and post it here.

Al,
Just played all week with Mark Wilson; in our very first rack of the week he produced...JUMP DRAW for perfect position (I've seen him do it on numerous occasions). Of course he has long promoted use of this type of shot for both position purposes and for clearing obstacles. The jump draw lengthens the time the cue ball stays on the tangent line before curving.

Interestingly, if you have the same tape I do; it is Mark that immediately recognizes the shot (hmmm, wonder if it has anything to do with the 2 months he spent in the Philippines with Efren...).

Though he has had me work on this shot on many occasions, I have NEVER recognized it in a game...I think that's the hard part, its definitely an achieveable shot for a good amateur player (or even for me...).

 

[alstl]

Al,
Just played all week with Mark Wilson; in our very first rack of the week he produced...JUMP DRAW for perfect position (I've seen him do it on numerous occasions). Of course he has long promoted use of this type of shot for both position purposes and for clearing obstacles. The jump draw lengthens the time the cue ball stays on the tangent line before curving.

Interestingly, if you have the same tape I do; it is Mark that immediately recognizes the shot (hmmm, wonder if it has anything to do with the 2 months he spent in the Philippines with Efren...).

Though he has had me work on this shot on many occasions, I have NEVER recognized it in a game...I think that's the hard part, its definitely an achieveable shot for a good amateur player (or even for me...).

True, it is a shot that can be made by an amateur and Mark, whose room like yourself I visited a few times in St Louis before it closed, did recognize the shot but only after he saw Efren jack up. Mark, like Efren, is one of the good people in pool.

It is also true that I don't see a lot of those who are saying it is a fairly common shot posting videos from matches of people shooting this shot, especially in a match with money on the line vs Archer who is going to punish you if you dog the shot. If it is a common shot it shouldn't be hard to find dozens of matches where the shot is used.

Most people would have rolled forward and took the long cut on the 2 or looked for a safe. As with a lot of what Efren does, it is easy to see the shot after you see him do it.

 

[alstl]

First, I never said it was a common shot, just that it is not that uncommon.

That's a classic. You should put that in your signature. :thumbup:

 

[Williebetmore]

If it is a common shot it shouldn't be hard to find dozens of matches where the shot is used.

Most people would have rolled forward and took the long cut on the 2 or looked for a safe. As with a lot of what Efren does, it is easy to see the shot after you see him do it.

Al,
I'm with you; I have over 100 Accu-Stats tapes, and have seen another 100 live tourney matches. In all of those matches, I've seen jump draw used TWICE (both by Efren, both discussed here on AZB). I'm voting for this being a RARE shot, that could easily be used more often, because it is not terribly difficult to achieve for a player with a precise and accurate stroke.

 

[Williebetmore]

duplicate post

 

[alstl]

Al,
I'm with you; I have over 100 Accu-Stats tapes, and have seen another 100 live tourney matches. In all of those matches, I've seen jump draw used TWICE (both by Efren, both discussed here on AZB). I'm voting for this being a RARE shot, that could easily be used more often, because it is not terribly difficult to achieve for a player with a precise and accurate stroke.

Kind of makes me wonder how Efren sees this stuff. I saw an interview once where he talked about how he learned pool. He really didn't have a teacher, just watched people play in his uncle's pool room. One thing he said was interesting. He said he learned some shots watching bad players shoot pool because sometimes they try unconventional shots, then he practiced what he saw them do.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Kind of makes me wonder how Efren sees this stuff. I saw an interview once where he talked about how he learned pool. He really didn't have a teacher, just watched people play in his uncle's pool room. One thing he said was interesting. He said he learned some shots watching bad players shoot pool because sometimes they try unconventional shots, then he practiced what he saw them do.

Don't we wish we could be as observant and then add such a fluky shot to our shot list?

Can you just see a guy on 'date night' coaching his girfriend to jack up the cue-because-that's how you get the ball to draw. Hit it hard-so it will push the four out of the way when it backs up. With her bridge hand cramping, she hits the cb hard with unintended bottom right-it jumps-it skids-it changes direction and floats downtable to get perfect on the two. 'Like that?' she says. He says-'you missed the four-but its OK-you made the one anyway-it's still your shot. Do you want another beer?'

No wonder Efren scratches his head and smiles. He knows stuff we don't and he sees stuff we don't.

Mighty fine shot. When, where, and against whom-make it a great shot.

 

[alstl]

Don't we wish we could be as observant and then add such a fluky shot to our shot list?

Can you just see a guy on 'date night' coaching his girfriend to jack up the cue-because-that's how you get the ball to draw. Hit it hard-so it will push the four out of the way when it backs up. With her bridge hand cramping, she hits the cb hard with unintended bottom right-it jumps-it skids-it changes direction and floats downtable to get perfect on the two. 'Like that?' she says. He says-'you missed the four-but its OK-you made the one anyway-it's still your shot. Do you want another beer?'

No wonder Efren scratches his head and smiles. He knows stuff we don't and he sees stuff we don't.

Mighty fine shot. When, where, and against whom-make it a great shot.

Yes, I can envision that and after hearing him say he learned shots from watching bad players it wouldn't surprised me if a few of the shots in his bag came about in that way.

 

[Williebetmore]

Yes, I can envision that and after hearing him say he learned shots from watching bad players it wouldn't surprised me if a few of the shots in his bag came about in that way.

Al,
Okay, I'll have to re-tell my "Efren story".

When we had the "Black Widow Challenge" raffle in the DCC room 4 or 5 years ago, we raffled off the chance for 2 AZB'ers to play as partners with Jeanette Lee and George Breedlove in a match on the television table (at that time streamed by BCN).

At the last minute, Breedlove had to cancel. I offered to Jeanette to just cancel; but she insisted that she would find a replacement. I suggested a couple of minor pro's that most people would not even know; but Jeanette insisted, "No, I'll get Efren!"

Now this was the last Friday night of DCC, Efren had played long hours, and was scheduled the next morning for the one pocket final, and was still alive in the nine ball. But at 11 PM (he was done with tournament play for the night), where did we find Efren??? He was in shorts and flip-flops, reclining in a spectators chair along the rail, drinking a beer, WATCHING A MINI-TOURNAMENT ONE-POCKET MATCH BETWEEN 2 PLAYERS WHO COULDN'T RUN 3 BALLS!!!

He looked happy as a clam; his idea of relaxation and recreation was to sit back, drink a beer, and watch 2 really bad one pocket players go at it.

I saw it with my own eyes.