What Would You Do?

Z

zeeder

Will queue for cues
Silver Member
Well, here is another of my late night questions spawned by a situation that came up in my infrequent gambling.

What would you do in the following situation?
You've been playing sets and it's all even. The opponent doesn't want to play another set so you play a single game for a small amount. You're on the nine and about to shoot and notice that your opponent has broken down their cue. It's not a hard shot on the nine-ball but technically the other player has forfeited.

As you might have guessed, I went over to shake my opponents hand and thanked him for forfeiting the game to me...lol. He didn't like this one little bit. After him whining for a minute I went ahead and made the ball but told him that I won the game regardless.

Just to give some background I lost the first two sets, against a guy I should own and was down $60 playing the next set for $40 (I'm spotting the guy a game on the wire to five). I was really close to going down 4-3 in that set but I got lucky and ended up winning it 5-3. We then played a race to 3 for $20 which I won 3-0. He didn't want to play another set and he would only play me a single game for $10. I figured what the hell because I didn't want to just break even after coming back. Win or lose I thought someone should get something...lol. If you're still reading at this point I appreciate your commitment to the thread!
 
If you're in the winning situation, don't rub salt in the wound.

nuff said.
 
That rule is kinda cheezy. Especially when you're just gambling and not in a tournament. I wouldn't have said anything.
 
Well, here's my take on it:

First of all, the break-down-you-lose rule is considered a tournament rule. Regardless of which rule book it might be in, I've never seen it enforced in real action. I agree it was wrong of him to do it, and I view it as a cheap "shark manuever". But unless the opponent says "that's good", ya still gotta pot the money ball!

Next, (not that you asked) when playing a weaker player the shorter sets are in their favor. So you kinda messed up by playing a race to 5, IMHO. If you're giving up a spot, whether on the wire or a ball, you need to make the sets longer. Anyone can slop the nine in, then make it on the break or get a good roll for a combo and then he just needs to win 2 to your 5. And it sounds like your advantage over this guy may be small, (though still enough to get out) but then it's even more critical to play longer sets.

Finally, you believe you own this guy, yet you made 2 downward adjustments on the cabbage. That's really odd. 2 for $30.00, then 1 for $40.00 (good), the you guys dropped it to $20.00, then down to $10.00?? With that kind of trend, you'd be playing for free before long. This guy was obviously running out of cash, or was out of his comfort zone, but you DON'T want to kill your action by beating him X-0. He'll remember that you skunked him, not necessarily that it was only 3-games.

If he still thinks he has a chance, try him in a race to 9 (or 11) with 2 on the wire. If you do own him, he's not going to win 7 games to your 9. Since he's Ok with a $10.00 rack, he should be OK with $50 - $100.00 Sets. Ideally, every set would go 6-9 or 7-9.

Back to your real question - the 9 must be made unless your opponent says otherwise or places their cue (or whatever) on the table. His breaking down, though bad sportsmanship, was not the same as telling you that you didn't have to shoot it.
 
zeeder said:
Well, here is another of my late night questions spawned by a situation that came up in my infrequent gambling.

W,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Win or lose I thought someone should get something...lol. If you're still reading at this point I appreciate your commitment to the thread!
Click to expand...

i woulda ended the matches even. why can't you leave it friendly and even? he probably WAS forfeiting the game because, well,,,,,,simply stated, you break your cue what are you going to do?,,,screw it back on?

but he probably thought you were rubbing it in. it's the only reason i can think of for him being mad.
 
Unless ...

You both agreed to shoot by tournament rules before
playing, you never accept the 9 without shooting it,
unless he says something like, 'That's good', or walks
up to the table with his hand out to shake your hand.
Money sets are not the same as tournament sets.
I am with you though, I hate to break even at the end
of a night of playing. I always try to get 1 more set so
someone comes out ahead, or at least to help cover
expenses. I shot 10 ahead sets long time ago
that took 16 hours, and ended up breaking even.
I swore then I would not play that way again, and
I haven't. I only play races, and I am not one of
these players that HAS TO PLAY just because I am there.
 
vagabond said:
collect the money and go home .Think twice before u decide to play him again.
Click to expand...

Always right to the point vagabond. My thoughts exactly.

Koop
 
Actions speak louder than words....His breaking down his cue says, "I quit." If he quits, don't you win? His complaining about it probably means he's mad about losing, about being a quitter, and mad about not having his sharking manuever work, not that you didn't pot the 9.

I would have done exactly as you did, Zeeder and not let him foist false guilt on you.

Jeff Livingston
 
eh, I would've shot the 9 anyways, because you never can tell the personality of those you are playing. Someone always has to whine or complain.

Just out of curiosity, why did you change the bet up after every set? Why not play for the same thing every set?

I also completely agree about playing for more but making it a longer set. Anyone can win a race to 5 with one on the wire...
 
He made a sharking move, simple as that, maybe from lack of experience or maybe intentional.

Whenever you're on the money ball and a player breaks down their cue, stands up, or otherwise moves while in your line of sight, just say "good?". If he says no, then say "well, I noticed you were getting up to leave so I figured it was good".

Chris
 
chefjeff said:
Actions speak louder than words....His breaking down his cue says, "I quit." If he quits, don't you win? His complaining about it probably means he's mad about losing, about being a quitter, and mad about not having his sharking manuever work, not that you didn't pot the 9.

I would have done exactly as you did, Zeeder and not let him foist false guilt on you.

Jeff Livingston
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That about sums it up for me!!!! In all other sports don't we normally play by the same rules as the pros, tournement or not! That's one reason why I will never play 8 ball in a bar. Bar rules, house rules, my I'm trying to move on you rules. You break down your cue, GAME OVER....End of story.

no-sho
 
Agreed, it was a sharking move, intentional or not.

But i have a simple philosophy when comes to pool halls an gambling.
I never play to "make money" but to decide who has real character
and sportmanship. Win or loose, i pay table time and sometimes i don't
take the money that i do win. But i do pay out when i loose.
I guess this might sound odd or even nuts to some. But this works for me;
in that i know who is who and who not to give a crap about.
And it's all about people...

So, the opponent you played is someone i would never bother with.
A man who would pull such an act is simply a jackass.
 
zeeder said:
[...] You're on the nine and about to shoot and notice that your opponent has broken down their cue. It's not a hard shot on the nine-ball but technically the other player has forfeited.

As you might have guessed, I went over to shake my opponents hand and thanked him for forfeiting the game to me...lol. He didn't like this one little bit. After him whining for a minute I went ahead and made the ball but told him that I won the game regardless. [...]
Click to expand...

I agree with TATE's response. Your opponent was probably not intentionally sharking you; he was probably frustrated. Still the convention is that if he wants you to shoot, he stays still. I think you should have stood up when he began his actions and looked for confirmation from him that he was conceding. If he said no he wasn't conceding, then I would hope he recognized that it was his his actions that led you to believe he was.

Then I would have shot the ball, making sure to aim ;-).

If he ever did it again, I would explain to him that the convention is that if gets up or grabs the rack or whatever he is conceding the game. If he doesn't at this point apologize or show recognition that he understands and honors the idea, then just don't play him again.

I'm kind of against arguments over $10 ;-)

mike page
fargo
 
cross T's and dot I's

You weren't in a tournament. Anytime I am gambling I never assume anything. Unless the other player deliberately interferes with play to indicate game over or verbally leaves no doubt, shoot it out. Saves a lot of aggravation and maybe a few lumps given or received.

Hu
 
I would of ignored him breaking down the cue and shot the shot normal.

Heck if he is a good friend I would of dogged it on purpose to let him win 10 bucks...then next time you can say "You won the last time we played" LOL

Seriously...just shoot your shot and quit letting people get in your head.

Shorty
 
I like how Grady explaines it in his Money Pool video. Make your game before starting play and stick to it. I think he sais to the opponent " make a game you feel you can win because I'm not going to ask to change it, and I don't expect you to either." He also sais teach people how to treat you by your actions. If you feel your being sharked, nip it in the bud, diplomatically of course....Gerry
 
If, as you say, you should own this guy then why would you want to risk ruining your cash cow by pissing him off? Next time offer to buy him a drink or a sandwich or something.
 
VonRhett said:
Finally, you believe you own this guy, yet you made 2 downward adjustments on the cabbage. That's really odd. 2 for $30.00, then 1 for $40.00 (good), the you guys dropped it to $20.00, then down to $10.00?? With that kind of trend, you'd be playing for free before long. This guy was obviously running out of cash, or was out of his comfort zone, but you DON'T want to kill your action by beating him X-0. He'll remember that you skunked him, not necessarily that it was only 3-games.
Click to expand...

It wasn't me that adjusted downward...lol. We played the first set for $20 and I asked to bump the bet to $40 afte I lost the first set. We did and played the 3rd set for $40 as well. He refused to play for $40 when he was only up $20 so I went ahead and played for $20. I tried to get him to play another set but he wouldn't and $10 was all he would play for.

I know what you mean about short races. He won the first two sets because I wasn't on my game and he was getting lucky.
 
alstl said:
If, as you say, you should own this guy then why would you want to risk ruining your cash cow by pissing him off? Next time offer to buy him a drink or a sandwich or something.
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First off, thanks to everyone who replied.

Now on to the cash cow thing. This guy usually doesn't play for more than $10 or $20 a set and I'm frankly very surprised that he didn't quit me after being up two sets. I doubt very seriously that he would have kept playing if the roles had been reversed after two sets and I'm almost positive he wouldn't have bumped the bet after losing the first set. Had I won the first two sets he would have definitely quit so it's not like I'm going to win much more than table time off the guy...lol. Thanks again for everyone who responded. Like I said, I did shoot the ball and make it but the reason I even noticed that he broke his cue down was because my shape left me with an easy shot but an akward bridge so I got back up to adjust...lol.
 
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