Granted this is billiards but what about the bettors? There are also considerations like um ok, suppose the wrong way is a dead 3 and the right way leaves no option but a horrendous safety for your case shot. Allow the foul - and beg forgiveness from God, or stand on your character and wait to get wacked. (???)
What would You do?
- Thread starter mr3cushion
- Start date
That is a two way street you’re on….is it honorable to accept instruction from your opponent?
In the final it might show that, but I don’t think so. I think it is a more difficult question in other situations in high level play. I think Fran’s point was valid and I think what I said in response was too. Think of this scenario. Semi finals. The remaining players are #1,2,3 and 58 in the world. #1 and 58 are tied 49-49 in their final. Players 2&3 will play next. The best player is a substantial favorite over 2 or 3 in the final. 2 or 3 are substantial favorites over # 58. Player 58 has had his best tournament, played great, scratched a point and ran 7 more in this match. Players 2 and 3 would both rather play #58. Now player 58 notices the world #1 about to play the wrong ball. He has no obligation to alert his opponent. Player # 2 really wants to win a world championship. Maybe he stands to make more money from endorsements. Maybe a lot of things. If player 1 fouls, player 58 will probably win. So he opens his mouth when it isn’t required. See the problem?
Another scenario is a match that affects who advances from the group stage.
This is different from calling a foul on yourself. I don’t think it is really a question of character. I’ve alerted players in little tournaments on stuff like this. In serious enough competitions it may be decidedly wrong to do. It isn’t obligatory so isn’t wrong not to do, morally or otherwise.
Or as they said in the Wire, You gave a fxxx when it wasn’t your turn to give a f. There can be unforeseen consequences to that.
The problem with alerting your opponent, regardless of the level of the event, is that it makes those who play by the rules and don't alert their opponent look like they're bad people. Rules are meant to protect the players and prevent controversies. If no one helped their opponent by alerting them, then no one would be the bad guy. If you're refereeing your own match, you have to act like a referee.
I saw a situation like this at Derby City a few years back. SVB vs Gorst. A “non-compliant” break by SVB, Gorst comes to the table with the choice to shoot or pass back to SVB, but no push out allowed. Gorst unaware, calls “push” and drops on the ball and Ed Liddawi intervenes incorrectly telling Gorst he can’t push. Gorst looks confused, SVB looks at Ed shaking his head and saying nothing and let Ed off the hook by just playing it as it lay after Gorst passed it back to him.
Yes, unfortunately, there is no solution that's good for the opponent when the ref makes a mistake like that. Shane apparently opted to accept Ed's error in order to stay in his head and not get into a long discussion and controversy, distracting himself. It's a shame he even had to make a decision like that.
That's a good move if you can get away with it?!
Agreed. The authority is solely in the hands of the official, for better or worse.
Notwithstanding the above...
Player refuses to accept ref's call:
Player refuses to accept ref's call:
What a drama queen. Point was good.
Entirely different situation!
UMB Refs make mistakes, especially in the 'Prelims' of World Cups and Grand Prix event!
MZ called a 'No point scored' on Himself!
Clearly only 2 rails.
It heads long after 2 and then changes direction and heads toward the scoring ball. You can see the phantom bounce just before it feathers the point.
The white ball hit 3 rails after contact with red and before contact with yellow then hit the rail again after contact with yellow, that's not a good shot??
There was no point. The cue ball wobbled near the rail.
Ok, cranky chuck.
You might follow the discussion and realize the context frames a discussion about appropriate respondents to officiated scenarios
Additionally, logic says that if one cannot call a foul on his opponent then he cannot call one on himself.
It never got the third rail. It was near the rail and wobbled. 2 rails only. Zanetti knew and the video is clear.
(What happens after contact with the 2nd ball is immaterial)