What would you do ...

I won't build anything I would be embarassed to show to everyone. I find for me this is a good rule of thumb. I try to make all of my cues hit the same as much as possible. I want anyone who likes one of my cues to be able to pick up anything I have made and like the way it plays. I make my cues based on how I like them to play, that is my niche. I make mostly custom ordered cues and I rarely have people request oddball stuff. Most of my customers have shot with one of my cues and liked the hit so they just pick the materials and weight and leave the rest up to me. I am happy to customize them to customer specs.
Tony check your pm's Chris.
 
Tony!!!!!!!

Tony if you like one pin an try to make your cues pretty much hit the same thats not a bad thing. Theres no way SW, Richard Harris or Blackcreek would build the cue your customer is looking for. I say do what you feel comfortable with. It could pay off in the long run. It looks like to me your doing a good job an making some really great looking cues. I'm partial to the 5/16x14 but I think majority of cue makers are using more big pins now than anything.
Pinocchio
 
Chris Byrne said:
I will install just about any joint pin on a custom ordered cue because it is just that, custom ordered. I explain why I use the pin I do and why I build a cue the way I do. If the customer has their own specs and they are reasonable I will do it. I refuse to build anything that is not of a sound design at any price. Chris.
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likewise well said.

custom cuemaker should built a custom cue. as long as its structurally sound.

that being said. i also feel the customer should find the cuemaker that best suits him and not find a maker and change everything about the cues he makes...
 
Hey Tony, There are many cue builders that will or will not do certain things based on there own set of rules. Some refuse to use ivory for instance, others won't use this or that. Remember, he who has the gold makes the rules and you got the gold. If he wants a cue with a certain item and you do not want to do it tell him your sorry and wish him the best.
JMO
Dan
 
Although I also am not a cue maker, my job includes being in a custom shop quite a bit. I think for a long established maker, that is "known" for their hit, it is perfectly fine to toe the line regarding basic parameters. For the guys and gals that are trying to get the ball rolling on their cue careers, EDUCATING the customer will go a long way in helping them discover what your cue is like. That point has already been made by many posters already. But think of this, if one alteration to your design opens up an entire new market of customers, the what? Wham! Your in the flow. I think you can be flexible with out compromising your principles. As far as duping an exact copy of another cue? I think that is professional suicide for the true "exotic" cuemaker these days.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
I understand I could alienate some buyers by not deviating. When I started building cues, I never expected to sell any. It was just something that I had wanted to try for close to 20 years.

When people started asking about buying cues, I set some rules for myself.

1. I wanted all of my cues to hit as consistent as possible. I once heard a cue maker say "All of my cues hit different". To me, that is not a good thing. Perhaps to him it was. If they all hit different, some will hit great, some will hit like garbage. If you went to a restaurant and you loved your first meal and the second time you went, you ordered the exact same thing and it tasted like garbage, would you ever go back?

2. I do not want to let anything out that I am not happy with. I have burned some cues and have some that I play with myself. That experimental bridged point cue I made hits great, but I can see a couple of flaws in it. I play with it, but I will not under any circumstances sell it. I had another cue that the points and veneers were perfect. Everything about the cue was perfect, until I put the pin in and blew out the side. I took the pin up, wrapped it in surgical tubing and when it was dry, re-pinned it. I showed it so a lot of people and not one person could find the flaw, but I knew it was there. I gave it to my mothers husband who then asked if he could send it to a mutual friend out west. I told him no way, that I didn't want it out there.

3. I do not want to build any cues without points and veneers. My second cue had no points. It was a very nice piece of cocobolo. That's not to say if I had another outstanding piece of wood, I wouldn't build one, but that's just not what I want to do.

There's nothing to force me to abide by 1 and 2, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

My question to the people that would build anything the customer asks for is if a customer came into your shop and wanted you to build a cue with a joint like John Robinson's, would you build it? This is not to say there is anything wrong with his joint, it is probably stronger than most of the other cues out there. I just used that as an example because it is the complete opposite of what you are accustomed to building.

Thanks again for all of the answers. I'm still undecided about building a cue with a different joint. I imagine that I will build it and if I am not happy with the hit, I will burn it.
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"Hit" is such a subjective idea that there is no good, better, best.

If you want to make cues that only conform to your own preferences,
that's your decision to make.

You said piloted pin, I am 99 and 44/100% sure you meant piloted joint,
what you didn't mention was whether or not it was to be stainless,
as so many of that design are.

My opinion, it does not rise to the threshold of a dealbreaker.
What you described is a VERY popular cue, and many excellent
examples have been made over the years.

Keep in mind, there are tons of top-notch players who LOVE Mooochies
<shudders>. Just as there are plenty who wouldn't use a SW for
anything other than a club to beat their dog with. To each his own.

As far as the sanding mandrels go. Why on earth would you need
sanding mandrels to make one cue?

Dale
 
pdcue said:
"Hit" is such a subjective idea that there is no good, better, best.

If you want to make cues that only conform to your own preferences,
that's your decision to make.

You said piloted pin, I am 99 and 44/100% sure you meant piloted joint,
what you didn't mention was whether or not it was to be stainless,
as so many of that design are.

My opinion, it does not rise to the threshold of a dealbreaker.
What you described is a VERY popular cue, and many excellent
examples have been made over the years.

Keep in mind, there are tons of top-notch players who LOVE Mooochies
<shudders>. Just as there are plenty who wouldn't use a SW for
anything other than a club to beat their dog with. To each his own.

As far as the sanding mandrels go. Why on earth would you need
sanding mandrels to make one cue?

Dale
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Reading ya loud and clear there, but I certainly understand the concerns of deviating away from what someone is comfortable & productive with also.

There are 2 totally different styles, I agggree there, and only making the 3/8 pin is shutting the other half out. It could have the opposite effect and the people that prefer a 5/16 pin could possibly not like the feel of the undeviated 3/8, regardless of how sweet the cues hit. Over time with hit being so subjective, This could have the same effect as the reason for not doing one in the first place.

There are definatly atleast 2 main catagories of players each liking the opposite pins. I would think It wouldn't be a bad idea to choose atleast one thread from 3/8, and one from 5/16, and just sticking to the one You like best for each diameter. You could still get some productivity and not deviate away too much, or require 10 different sets of mandrels to handle everything. Just depends on what you want to do, but even if you only Made 5/16-14 in the 5/16 dia. pin, which is one I like, the 5/16-18 guys are usually more willing to make that change then to go to a totally different style 3/8 with wood threads. The same senerio could be reversed also. Greg
 
tsp&b said:
You draw the line where you want to!!! It's your business and you have to live with the decisions you make. Ask yourself if you want that peice out running around with YOUR NAME ON IT?
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Thats the way I see it. Even so, I try not to draw the line in permanent marker cause new ideas or techniques are gonna pop up from time to time. The Radial pin is a good example. I like it, I also like piloted stainless with a 5/16-14 pin though.

All any of us can do is to put out what we believe is our best work, price it fairly, and treat people right. If "it" is supposed to happen, "it" will.
 
Well said!

"All any of us can do is to put out what we believe is our best work, price it fairly, and treat people right. If "it" is supposed to happen, "it" will."

Tap, Tap, Tap!!!
 
dave sutton said:
likewise well said.

custom cuemaker should built a custom cue. as long as its structurally sound.

that being said. i also feel the customer should find the cuemaker that best suits him and not find a maker and change everything about the cues he makes...
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If the customer loves the looks of your cues and thinks your work is perfect, and really wants one, but wants a different joint, I would think it to be the same as the customer asking for a slightly different taper on the shaft that he is comfortable with and used to. That's why custom is custom. Yes it will change the hit, but if that's the hit the customer wants, isn't that the point of making it to the customer's specs?
I believe that's one of the many things that seperates the custom cue builders from the production cue companies, is that the cue builder builds it the specs of the customer, for the type of hit and feel the customer likes, especially if it doesn't compromise the structural strength of the cue.
Just my 'pinion
Dave
 
Maybe the people that don't have the ability or desire to be flexible and use customer specs should call themselves "Specialty Cuemakers". "Custom" should more closely follow the actual definition, IMO.
Some of the unwillingness to use a different joint or taper, etc. is simply that it is too difficult. Cuemaking is expensive, and the return is minimal at first, so people have limited equipment and tooling. It becomes a major hassle to make modifications when your equipment is minimal.
 
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