What would you have done?

[dquarasr]

Regular BCA 9-ball league night:

Opponent against one of my teammates took out his break/jump cue to jump a ball. He broke down the stick, and put the bottom portion of the stick sticking up out of the corner pocket, near where he was standing. He executed the jump, got a good hit. OB went three rails around the table and into the pocket where he had placed the break/jump cue extension, touching it. The OB stayed down.

There was some debate on whether to call a foul. My position, in good sportsmanship, was to let him have it. We asked a highly respected very strong player (not on either my team nor our opponent's team that night) and he said he would let it go, but in a tournament, he would not. We ultimately gave it to him, let him continue shooting, with the understanding that it's not a good practice to put the extension in or on the table, lesson learned.

What would you have done?

 

[ShootingArts]

Situational thing but in this case I call foul. The player owes it to their team to play by the rules.

Hu

 

[MitchAlsup]

It is definitely a foul. An instrument of the game interfered with the physics transpiring on the table.

Whether to enforce the foul is up to you.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I personally never understood why some players put the jump handle in the pocket. Seems about the dumbest thing one could do with it.

It's 100% a foul by any rule book. I'd personally probably let it go. Its just stupid to put the jump handle there, however.

 

[Fore Rail]

What CSI / BCAPL rule are you guys using to determine the foul?

 

[straightline]

I personally never understood why some players put the jump handle in the pocket. Seems about the dumbest thing one could do with it.

It's 100% a foul by any rule book. I'd personally probably let it go. Its just stupid to put the jump handle there, however.

I only jump with the shaft so that's already a foul but I leave anything I remove on the playing surface or in an unlikely pocket. The last time I did that, it slid down the gutter and into the table. Had to get the keys and go in under the table to retrieve it.

 

[Black-Balled]

I didn't read the thread but I guess id vaporize everyone involved.

Probably a few innocents too.

But there's more to life than making other people die, like a little bloody tear, baby. Running out my dirty little eye. Some things, they don't make no sense.

 

[Fore Rail]

From CSI / BCAPL Official Rules

3. Situation: Player A, preparing to shoot a jump shot, unscrews the extended butt from their jump-break cue and places it in a pocket. They then forget that the butt is in the pocket and leave it there after their inning.

Player B shoots and a ball (a) rebounds from the pocket; (b) is pocketed despite the presence of the butt. Ruling: (a) foul on Player A; (b) The result of the shot stands and the game continues.

Discussion: With the exception of chalk left on the rail, if equipment used by a player and left at the table directly interferes with their opponent’s shot, it is a foul on the player that left the equipment. If a player leaves equipment at the table and it is discovered before it interferes with the game, or if it interacts with the balls during a shot without causing a disadvantage to the opponent, it shall be removed without penalty, but a warning may be issued.

The way the above reads would lead me to believe that the OP's scenario is not a foul.

 

[dquarasr]

It is definitely a foul. An instrument of the game interfered with the physics transpiring on the table.

Whether to enforce the foul is up to you.

Yes, we knew it was a foul. The debate on our team was whether to call it.

 

[dquarasr]

I didn't read the thread but I guess id vaporize everyone involved.

Probably a few innocents too.

But there's more to life than making other people die, like a little bloody tear, baby. Running out my dirty little eye. Some things, they don't make no sense.

Did you run out of your meds?

 

[sjm]

I'm calling a foul seven days of the week here.

 

[Black-Balled]

Did you run out of your meds?

Or did he get the name brand this time?!

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Yes, we knew it was a foul. The debate on our team was whether to call it.

Of course you call it. This is the single most avoidable foul in billiards.

 

[WobblyStroke]

I'm generally against calling fouls sometimes but not other times as if we're playing pickup basketball. Just the other week I saw two friends in such a game where one apologetically called a foul on an obvious whiffed OB foul and cleared up the last two balls for the win while his friend complained the whole time that he couldn't believe he'd call that shiii when he hasn't been callin it on him.

Call fouls as fouls. Life is simpler that way. The player and his team (for not warning him) only have themselves to blame. Perhaps getting called on it would encourage the player to build better habits regarding where he leaves his equipment on jumps in the future.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Regular BCA 9-ball league night:

Opponent against one of my teammates took out his break/jump cue to jump a ball. He broke down the stick, and put the bottom portion of the stick sticking up out of the corner pocket, near where he was standing. He executed the jump, got a good hit. OB went three rails around the table and into the pocket where he had placed the break/jump cue extension, touching it. The OB stayed down.

There was some debate on whether to call a foul. My position, in good sportsmanship, was to let him have it. We asked a highly respected very strong player (not on either my team nor our opponent's team that night) and he said he would let it go, but in a tournament, he would not. We ultimately gave it to him, let him continue shooting, with the understanding that it's not a good practice to put the extension in or on the table, lesson learned.

What would you have done?

Exactly what you did sounds appropriate. The ball goes in the pocket whether the jump cue butt is in the pocket or not.

However, if the object ball deflects off the butt and stays on the table, then it would constitute a foul just as in the case of your cue or your hand contacting a moving ball in play.

 

[pt109]

I like the snooker point of view. ….it is the responsibility of the player to see that the table is in order on his turn….even if the ref made a mistake, it‘s the player who fouls.

 

[sbrownn]

From CSI / BCAPL Official Rules

3. Situation: Player A, preparing to shoot a jump shot, unscrews the extended butt from their jump-break cue and places it in a pocket. They then forget that the butt is in the pocket and leave it there after their inning.

Player B shoots and a ball (a) rebounds from the pocket; (b) is pocketed despite the presence of the butt. Ruling: (a) foul on Player A; (b) The result of the shot stands and the game continues.

Discussion: With the exception of chalk left on the rail, if equipment used by a player and left at the table directly interferes with their opponent’s shot, it is a foul on the player that left the equipment. If a player leaves equipment at the table and it is discovered before it interferes with the game, or if it interactswith the balls during a shot without causing a disadvantage to the opponent, it shall be removed without penalty, but a warning may be issued.

The way the above reads would lead me to believe that the OP's scenario is not a foul.

I was wondering if the BCA rules would have a clause like this (their rules are basically cue ball fouls only still, correct?). The question is, is there such a thing of an unlawful sportsmanship foul that the player should have called a foul on themselves or tapped the cue ball after to end their inning with the opponent getting ball in hand. If it was on the 8 ball the "jump" shooter should have forfeited the game.

 

[sudocrushms]

Playing friendlies i usually just put the jump cue extension on the table within reach. On the rare occasion that i don't know by looking which length i'll need. With my old J/B cues i'd often put the butt in the pocket so it wouldn't roll around.
Would never do that in competition, but even in friendlies if i can't get the butt out of the way before it was hit by a ball, i'm calling the foul myself.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Foul. I have zero tolerance and taking ball in hand, screw him if he wants to play cutie.
Should be an auto foul for putting the cue in the pocket. Dumbass rules.
He is capable of jumping but not quick enough to remove the cue out of the pocket. He should be suspended
until he has completed the Bruce Lee School Of Speed and given a frontal lobotomy just because.

 

[briankenobi]

From CSI / BCAPL Official Rules

3. Situation: Player A, preparing to shoot a jump shot, unscrews the extended butt from their jump-break cue and places it in a pocket. They then forget that the butt is in the pocket and leave it there after their inning.

Player B shoots and a ball (a) rebounds from the pocket; (b) is pocketed despite the presence of the butt. Ruling: (a) foul on Player A; (b) The result of the shot stands and the game continues.

Discussion: With the exception of chalk left on the rail, if equipment used by a player and left at the table directly interferes with their opponent’s shot, it is a foul on the player that left the equipment. If a player leaves equipment at the table and it is discovered before it interferes with the game, or if it interactswith the balls during a shot without causing a disadvantage to the opponent, it shall be removed without penalty, but a warning may be issued.

The way the above reads would lead me to believe that the OP's scenario is not a foul.

Thank you for posting the rule. It is obviously not a foul but I would definitely remind the player to never do it again and I would be vigilant when seeing someone put the bottom section of the jump/break cue in the pocket.