What's a Girl to Do?!

ridewiththewind

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
So, since receiving my Josey, my game has gotten to be the best it's been, with some real advancements in the last several weeks...I have to attribute a lot of this to the much stiffer 'hit'.

I decided to hit a tourney last night that I have never been to before, but know a few people who frequent it, as well as the guy who runs it. So, I am playing a few practice games with supposedly one of the best shooters there, and I not only give him 'game' but I take 2 of the 3 we played. I'm shooting pretty well...been this way for about a week now.

Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again! Now, as there was no obvious reason to have taken that shot the way he did...as the rest of his balls were mid or up table...I decided to ask him which ball he had intended on pocketing. He claims to have planned that shot. Now, it's becoming a 'heated' discussion, as I have apparently offended him...to the point where one of his 'buddies' tells me that no one would 'cheat' me. (I never used the word cheat or anything like it...however, I am later told that the 'buddy' will cheat you blind if you don't pay attention.)

My contention is, the shot he was taking was most definitely NOT an obvious shot, and that he was required to call the intended ball and intended pocket. I have had this happen to me 3x this week already! I am always indicating my intended ball and pocket...to avoid this type of thing from happening.

The guy finally admits to me that it was not an obvious shot, but only after I had decided, after that set, that I was in no mood for this, and that I was going to forfeit the rest of my sets...especially since I had already had similar experiences this week. I did wind up finishing out the tourney, but only because the TD asked me to.

I guess I am not getting why, all of a sudden, I am experiencing this type of behavior on the table. This has never really been an issue in the past. I watch my games pretty close, and usually, in the past, the obvious shot was the taken shot...or the shooter will indicate his or her intended pocket...as it should be. Could it be something as simple as all the players involved (men) don't particularly like losing games to a woman? Just trying to figure it out...as I hate the games to become confrontational, but I'm not gonna just sit there and let them foul and continue to stay at the table! Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa
 
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If there's any doubt as to what is intended, speak up and ask them before they shoot. Don't wait until they're in their stroke though. Just call out "Which ball are you calling and where?" in a friendly voice.

If they get upset, that's too bad. If it's not obvious, and no carom or bank is obvious, they need to call the shot.

Flex
 
Flex said:
If there's any doubt as to what is intended, speak up and ask them before they shoot. Don't wait until they're in their stroke though. Just call out "Which ball are you calling and where?" in a friendly voice.

If they get upset, that's too bad. If it's not obvious, and no carom or bank is obvious, they need to call the shot.

Flex
Click to expand...

The reason I didn't say anything was because the combo was the obvious shot...there was just no reason to take the shot he claimed to have taken...none. And the balls were lined up almost ruler straight, with about 3"-4" between the 10 and the 13. I figured he'd bobbled the shot...he was pretty cocky, and did make a few other mistakes because of it.

I know this may be considered 'nit-picky', but that is why I prefer to have the intended ball and pocket called. Even if it's obvious, I do it....keeps the game honest. As a rule, I never talk to the player once they have set for their shot.

Lisa
 
Flex said:
If there's any doubt as to what is intended, speak up and ask them before they shoot. Don't wait until they're in their stroke though. Just call out "Which ball are you calling and where?" in a friendly voice.

If they get upset, that's too bad. If it's not obvious, and no carom or bank is obvious, they need to call the shot.

Flex
Click to expand...

If the shot isn't obvious i'd make sure the shooter states what he's going to do before he gets down on the shot. If you don't know what he's playing then it's your responsibility to ask before the shot. It's too late to discuss a shot after it's been played because the shooter gets the call unless you have someone watch the shot.
 
ridewiththewind said:
The reason I didn't say anything was because the combo was the obvious shot...there was just no reason to take the shot he claimed to have taken...none. And the balls were lined up almost ruler straight, with about 3"-4" between the 10 and the 13. I figured he'd bobbled the shot...he was pretty cocky, and did make a few other mistakes because of it.

I know this may be considered 'nit-picky', but that is why I prefer to have the intended ball and pocket called. Even if it's obvious, I do it....keeps the game honest.

Lisa
Click to expand...

Well, if it was that obvious he didn't absolutely need to call it, but since he didn't and the potted ball was a different one, after that I'd insist on getting him to say what's planned.
 
I'd have left it alone and watched him closer after that.

That bad karma will either wreck your game or if left to him, his.
 
Flex said:
Well, if it was that obvious he didn't absolutely need to call it, but since he didn't and the potted ball was a different one, after that I'd insist on getting him to say what's planned.
Click to expand...

Oh, I did...and he was none to happy about it...but I didn't care. I am usually super easy-going when playing, because I do, afterall, wanna have fun, but this was just too obviously a poorly stroked shot, that got lucky to pocket a ball, but not the obviously intended one. Not to mention, he left himself no shape to follow with a decent shot with...especially since everything was up-table for him from there.

Lisa
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I'd have left it alone and watched him closer after that.

That bad karma will either wreck your game or if left to him, his.
Click to expand...

I know, I should have....but this was the 4th incident of this this week...I guess it was kinda the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

Lisa
 
2 or 3 ways

Sometimes I just tell the player, especially someone I don't know, that all banks, caroms, and combos have to be called before we start playing.
It gets it out of the way upfront.

and sometimes, I will just say, 'Anything other a straight shot, call the ball and pocket'.

Other times, I will watch the table layout, and if I think he will shoot one of those, I will tell him to call his ball and pocket before he gets down to shoot.

I only wish we played 'Call shot' instead of 'Call Pocket' where you have to call rails, kisses, everything, that would suit me fine, but would drive the lower handicaps mad.
 
two points

A. The shot should have been called

B. It is too late to get in an argument about it after the shot. You simply can't know what he was thinking. You say the combo was a duck and he took the harder shot. There may have been method to his madness whether his run out worked or not.

All you can do is stay cool and let it slide the first time it happens but make clear that it will be unacceptable if such shots aren't called in the future. I suggest since this is becoming a regular issue for you that you discuss calling balls and pockets before beginning a match. Then failing to call a less than obvious shot is a clear cut foul. I agree that caroms, combo's and banks can't be taken as obvious unless you are playing one pocket.

Oddly enough, I have seen men that can lose graciously to other men have issues with being beaten by a woman regardless of the form of competition. I never understood that. It is real however and some female poker players exploit the issue those men have. You might give some thought to that if things get a little rough with sharking and foolishness going on. Goading one of these guys will get the adrenalin flowing. That can be good or bad of course, but usually bad for them.
Hu
 
ridewiththewind said:
So, since receiving my Josey, my game has gotten to be the best it's been, with some real advancements in the last several weeks...I have to attribute a lot of this to the much stiffer 'hit'.

I decided to hit a tourney last night that I have never been to before, but know a few people who frequent it, as well as the guy who runs it. So, I am playing a few practice games with supposedly one of the best shooters there, and I not only give him 'game' but I take 2 of the 3 we played. I'm shooting pretty well...been this way for about a week now.

Fast-foward to the match....I pull this same guy in the first bracket. Again, I am giving him good game. We're in the second game in a race to 2. The guy gets on darn near a straight-in 2-ball comination shot (10,13) to the corner pocket near the bottom rail. From where I was sitting, I could see the shot dead-on...looks pretty easy to me, pretty clear-cut, but then again, I like combos.

The guy takes the shot...hits the 10, which contacts the rail, caroms off the 13 into the corner pocket. I figure, he's bobbled the shot, but still gotta a ball down. No, he sets to shoot again! Now, as there was no obvious reason to have taken that shot the way he did...as the rest of his balls were mid or up table...I decided to ask him which ball he had intended on pocketing. He claims to have planned that shot. Now, it's becoming a 'heated' discussion, as I have apparently offended him...to the point where one of his 'buddies' tells me that no one would 'cheat' me. (I never used the word cheat or anything like it...however, I am later told that the 'buddy' will cheat you blind if you don't pay attention.)

My contention is, the shot he was taking was most definitely NOT an obvious shot, and that he was required to call the intended ball and intended pocket. I have had this happen to me 3x this week already! I am always indicating my intended ball and pocket...to avoid this type of thing from happening.

The guy finally admits to me that it was not an obvious shot, but only after I had decided, after that set, that I was in no mood for this, and that I was going to forfeit the rest of my sets...especially since I had already had similar experiences this week. I did wind up finishing out the tourney, but only because the TD asked me to.

I guess I am not getting why, all of a sudden, I am experiencing this type of behavior on the table. This has never really been an issue in the past. I watch my games pretty close, and usually, in the past, the obvious shot was the taken shot...or the shooter will indicate his or her intended pocket...as it should be. Could it be something as simple as all the players involved (men) don't particularly like losing games to a woman? Just trying to figure it out...as I hate the games to become confrontational, but I'm not gonna just sit there and let them foul and continue to stay at the table! Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa
Click to expand...

A little confrontation is no always a bad thing. Maybe once you stand your ground, people will know who they are dealing with and why. It can still be tactful and without being argumentative. They will see it and they will hear it and more than likely end it. It's better than Brass Knuckles.
 
ridewiththewind said:
The reason I didn't say anything was because the combo was the obvious shot...there was just no reason to take the shot he claimed to have taken...none. And the balls were lined up almost ruler straight, with about 3"-4" between the 10 and the 13. I figured he'd bobbled the shot...he was pretty cocky, and did make a few other mistakes because of it.

I know this may be considered 'nit-picky', but that is why I prefer to have the intended ball and pocket called. Even if it's obvious, I do it....keeps the game honest. As a rule, I never talk to the player once they have set for their shot.

Lisa
Click to expand...

Nothing negative intended.
Just curious. How close did he come to making the combo?
IF he missed it by a lot is it possible that he was playing the carom?
I always try to give the benefit of the doubt in situations like this where I failed to ask before the shot.

Steve
 
sde said:
Nothing negative intended.
Just curious. How close did he come to making the combo?
IF he missed it by a lot is it possible that he was playing the carom?
I always try to give the benefit of the doubt in situations like this where I failed to ask before the shot.

Steve
Click to expand...

From the way he was aiming on the CB, it certainly appeared that he was attempting the combo shot. A couple of others saw the shot and assumed he was taking the combo as well.

I have already decided, and several players have suggested it be re-iterated at these shoots, that 'call ball, call pocket' should be the norm, and not the exception. I am going to make it a point, in the future, that my opponents adhere to the 'call ball, call pocket' rule...period.

And yes, I have experienced playing men that can lose well to men, that cannot lose well to women...it's that whole 'testosterone overload' thing. My shot safety play has really gotten very good, and I leave opponents hooked more often than not...and perhaps it was just too frustrating for him. Others like it, because it makes them 'work' for their game, and they have told me as such. I'm no superstar, but, especially as of late, I can hold my own.:)

Lisa
 
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If you asked him (or her) if that was the shot he was playing, and he said "yes", then I would have said, "can you please call all your shots from now on..." . If he is any kind of honest person or player, he would not get offended by this since it is a call the ball and pocket tourney. Just out of curiostiy, would you be this upset if it had been a woman you were playing? You seem to put alot of emphasis of the Men playing a Women thing.

Southpaw
 
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Southpaw said:
If you asked him (or her) if that was the shot he was playing, and he said "yes", then I would have said, "can you please call all your shots from now on..." . If he is any kind of honest person or player, he would not get offended by this since it is a call the ball and pocket tourney. Just out of curiostiy, would you be this upset if it had been a woman you were playing? You seem to put alot of emphasis of the Men playing a Women thing.

Southpaw
Click to expand...

I captained a women's league team for many years. Part of being a good captain is paying attention to what's going on on the table. And yes, I have had some shady shots take place, and yes, I have called them on them.

The reason men are mentioned more often is that I play in as many local tournies as I can, and often, I am the only female in attendance. I do not care who I am playing, I just wanna play!!

Lisa
 
When going into a new place, local rules is what counts. If you don't know the local rules, then best way is to ask around or watch for awhile, but until you know what is considered acceptable behavoir, then pretty much accept the local's interpretations.

Some won't even like you asking what rules they play under, as they don't really know how to explain them easily.

Once you know that calling all non-obvious shots is the accepted rule in the house, then you should call them on it straight away if they try to sneak one past you. If you don't know the local habits, then you'll could just stand out as a whiner.

Conflict is rarely worth the price. If you're good enough to get wins there, then it's better you take the time to know the local ways and to become trusted as a respected player.

Colin
 
you got your new cue, you love the hit, and you're playing really well- day after day, and not just one night.

i think that you're surprising the players who have already categorized you and your game into a little box, and now you're showing them that you don't really fit into that box anymore. They're testing your boundaries and probably trying to stuff you back into that old box in their heads.

don't let them.

congrats on the new cue, congrats on stepping up your game, congrats on standing firm and not letting them push you around. keep it up.
 
Sometimes we see things diffrent

I read your posts saying that the shot that the guy was taking was pretty apparent to you. That the kicker...You also said that the guy was a top shooter there as well. I have found out thru alot of playing guys better than me that they see things diffrent than average shooters. They will play a ball a bit diffrent that I would in order to get better shape or to position a ball in a better place. I would only see the easy combo or the cut shot and not the bank shot that allowed a player to get a ball of the rail to finish a run out. I think that by assuming that you knew which shot he was gona take was the mistake. If the shot he made was there but was not apparent to you then you have to assume he thought of a better way to play it. Now if the ball had hit three rails then banked off the side pocket tit in to the corner..that is a diffrent story..but just my opinion of course..and by the way keep hitting them good.
 
Colin Colenso said:
When going into a new place, local rules is what counts. If you don't know the local rules, then best way is to ask around or watch for awhile, but until you know what is considered acceptable behavoir, then pretty much accept the local's interpretations.

Some won't even like you asking what rules they play under, as they don't really know how to explain them easily.

Once you know that calling all non-obvious shots is the accepted rule in the house, then you should call them on it straight away if they try to sneak one past you. If you don't know the local habits, then you'll could just stand out as a whiner.

Conflict is rarely worth the price. If you're good enough to get wins there, then it's better you take the time to know the local ways and to become trusted as a respected player.

Colin
Click to expand...


Actually, I did ask. All the tournies in the area play BCA/Vegas rules...the only difference between them is that some allow BIH after a scratch off the break, and some want the CB in the kitchen. Other than that, everything is the same between all the places I play...oh, and some have scratch pots and award them, and others don't.

There are several players that travel around to the different tournies, as I do, that have a reputation for needing to be watched...they are beginning to be pointed out to me now. I guess. for me, it's a factor now.

Lisa
 
quitecoolguy said:
I read your posts saying that the shot that the guy was taking was pretty apparent to you. That the kicker...You also said that the guy was a top shooter there as well. I have found out thru alot of playing guys better than me that they see things diffrent than average shooters. They will play a ball a bit diffrent that I would in order to get better shape or to position a ball in a better place. I would only see the easy combo or the cut shot and not the bank shot that allowed a player to get a ball of the rail to finish a run out. I think that by assuming that you knew which shot he was gona take was the mistake. If the shot he made was there but was not apparent to you then you have to assume he thought of a better way to play it. Now if the ball had hit three rails then banked off the side pocket tit in to the corner..that is a diffrent story..but just my opinion of course..and by the way keep hitting them good.
Click to expand...

If this is in fact all true, then he still fouled by not calling the bank, and the intended pocket off the bank. Either way, the shot was fouled.

Lisa...who actually keeps a copy of the BCA Rule Book in her car.
 
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