Williebetmore said:
when Deion Sanders first started playing baseball he did not run out a ground ball and when he came by the plate on his way to the dugout Carlton Fisk told him "Run that out you piece o' shit"
What's going on in Florida
- Thread starter SSach
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when Deion Sanders first started playing baseball he did not run out a ground ball and when he came by the plate on his way to the dugout Carlton Fisk told him "Run that out you piece o' shit"
sjm said:
I agree, I think it definately stinks that if a fan pays so much to see a pro play and he forfeits his match because he's losing, but lets not forget a couple of things- A) It's not 1906, beatings are undeserved B) The players did pay a large sum enter the tournament, if it came out of their pocket, they can do whatever the hell they please since it's their money, C) Sometimes the fans can upset a player and cause him to quit his match early, usually when they are siding with the underdog. I've seen some pretty rude fans before. I think the fans that demand too much out of pros who participate in a highly underpaid sport (i.e. calling them 'unprofessional' because they were late for a tournament because of traffic- sheesh, relax a bit will ya?) need to realize that pool is not golf, and you are not going to get alot more out of the professional players until you see events start paying them like they are professionals (something they can make a living off of).
Wally in Cincy said:...As you no doubt recall he [Scott Frost] forfeited his loser match at the Open. He was at Q-Masters playing 1P with a guy named Pookie.
At this rate I might never get to see either one of them shoot again in my lifetime
Sure, you will, Wally. Come to the Derby in January. Whether in tournament play or in action, the players will be there in full force. As you know, the entertainment is non-stop.
"All right, guys. Say 'Cheese,'" says JAM as she snaps the picture!
JAM
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As far as the tournament. It ran pretty smoothly. They didn't use sardo racks and most players racked their balls by hand instead of using the triangle. On wednesday they switched to super pro tv aramiths on all tables. They were using alternating break with breaking player racking his own balls. That made for about 7 or 8 games out of the 16 i seen hill hill matches. I believe for spectator friendliness that has to be the best option. It made for some awesome pool.
Johnny is having a real strong tournament and is definately falling in the groove the more matches he plays. He came very composed to beat Tony Crosby yesterday and then Rodney Morris to advance to a spot in the finals.
Danny basavich is having a real strong tournament as well. I seen one of the best matches i've ever seen between him and double J. The first rack lasted 25 minutes with each player playing the 1 safe about 20 times. At that time Scott Smith has to come over and put the 30 second shot clock on the game because of how long it was taking. That game went 11-10 for Jeremy.
Gotta go to work for now,
Curtis
Johnny is having a real strong tournament and is definately falling in the groove the more matches he plays. He came very composed to beat Tony Crosby yesterday and then Rodney Morris to advance to a spot in the finals.
Danny basavich is having a real strong tournament as well. I seen one of the best matches i've ever seen between him and double J. The first rack lasted 25 minutes with each player playing the 1 safe about 20 times. At that time Scott Smith has to come over and put the 30 second shot clock on the game because of how long it was taking. That game went 11-10 for Jeremy.
Gotta go to work for now,
Curtis
LastTwo said:
A few points, mostly in disagreement of the above :
- While it's not 1906 now, I'd guess that team-mates still get physical with slackers, and I know coaches who've thrown chairs etc.
- Most professional tournaments have entry fees I believe. The fact that you put up money to enter gives them the right to play, not 'do whatever the hell they please', in my opinion. Typically the rules are laid out, or should be anyway, before you pay. If you do not want to be bound by those rules, don't enter. I do understand that the players meeting will often adjust or add/delete rules, but after that they are set, and you still have to abide by them. If there are no forfeit/concede rules, then those actions are fair (ie not against the rules), but I'd like to see all 'pro' events include such provisions.
- Being late for almost any tournament (golf, tennis, chess, etc.) should and most often does result in a disqualification of forfeit. To do otherwise is unprofessional of the TD. Sh|^ happens, and people can be late due to circumstances beyond their control. In these situations the player should be disqualified, but I don't see this a unprofessional, just human. When a player chooses to not show up, I believe that is the player being unprofessional.
- The comment "...you are not going to get alot more out of the professional players until you see events start paying them like they are professionals" is a chicken and egg thing perhaps. In my opinion the pay will not go up until the unprofessional actions go down. They should act professionally regardless of the pay; they consider themselves professionals after all. Maybe the problem is that many professional pool players develop through some interesting phases, and the attitudes from these phases remain with them when supposedly they are pro's. I think that pool is very different developmentally than other sports and games where there are good organisations (like Little League, NCAA, Junior Hockey leagues etc.). Think "how does one typically become a pro pool player" if you are having difficulty figuring my meaning.
Just my opinions folks, and I have to say that I enjoy reading your opinions too. Debate is good.
Dave
JustPlay said:
Tell the truth!
Does anyone remember my "friend" manlyshot? We went back and forth over the UPA for a year. Regardless of the positive spin I put on a development, he'd repeat the same tired story. One of his five heroes was Corey Deuel. He and the others refused to sign the standard contract. Took away all their rights. Bad, bad UPA. Some were sponsored by the Seminole Tribe of Florida. If its still true, Corey is responsible to his sponsors. Perhaps a reprimand would do wonders. Bad publicity is worse than none in our game. Sponsors are too hard to come by. Especially in Florida!
DaveK said:
Good post. I think it is a mistake to assume that all of the touring players consider themselves professional, though, even if the majority of their income is from pool. Most of these guys just want to play and be where the action is. If things aren't in their favor, you may see a couple of them quit a match. Especially if they get in action...you can't flip the coin when you lose in a tournament. I agree that everyone who enters these types of tournaments should act like true sports. But 'professional' I am not willing to call most of them.
As far as I know Corey is still sponsored by the Seminoles. Might even play a little golf with Osceola, who knows?
Is this tournament really 8 days long? If so, how can any player possibly make any money in it? If there is very little chance of getting a big paycheck who wants to lose 8 days out of their lives?
I think 2 day tournaments should be the rule. Anyone coming back for the 2nd day would be in the money. That should be long enough for both fans and players.
Evidently there must have been something wrong with this tournament if only 43 players showed up. For whatever reason the players decided to skip it. I don't think it conflicts with another tournament. Maybe it is just too far to travel. Or perhaps the lodging is too expensive down here at this time of the year. Or maybe it is just the end of the year and players are wore out.
Perhaps the TD's should contact each of their players and get their input as to what has to be done to ensure that they show up.
Jake
Is this tournament really 8 days long? If so, how can any player possibly make any money in it? If there is very little chance of getting a big paycheck who wants to lose 8 days out of their lives?
I think 2 day tournaments should be the rule. Anyone coming back for the 2nd day would be in the money. That should be long enough for both fans and players.
Evidently there must have been something wrong with this tournament if only 43 players showed up. For whatever reason the players decided to skip it. I don't think it conflicts with another tournament. Maybe it is just too far to travel. Or perhaps the lodging is too expensive down here at this time of the year. Or maybe it is just the end of the year and players are wore out.
Perhaps the TD's should contact each of their players and get their input as to what has to be done to ensure that they show up.
Jake
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LastTwo said:
I agree with you that it's stinky that the fans spend money and do not receive what's due them.
I don't understand A.
As for B, you're leaving out the fact about your first, true statement about the fans' money.
And for C, the fans---or the other player, or the score, or whatever thing exist outside the player----the fans canNOT "make" a player upset or to quit. The fans CAN create uncomfortable circumstances, but it is the PLAYER who ALWAYS makes the decision to be upset or to quit. If everyone quit, I might buy your argument, but the fact that everyone did not quit makes your argument null and void.
And as for your last comment about golf...It reminds me of the man who sat in front of the stove and said, "Give me heat and then I'll go get some wood." The universe just doesn't work that way.
My buddy and I have recently been contemplating about going to a pro tourney, something we've never done, but have wanted to do for years. My thoughts on this now are, why bother? I think I'd rather spend my money on a new cue and just play leagues.
Jeff Livingston
LastTwo said:
Perhaps you're right, LastTwo, but I hope not. Unfortunately, that's how far too many pros think. Sadly, history has shown that nobody will invest big money to support the careers of players who behave themselves so unprofessionally.
You suggest that the ball is in the court of the sponsors. With due respect, I think it's in the court of the players. Gremlin makes an excellent point when he notes the absence of a sanctioning body to keep the players in line. Until they take themselves seriously, nobody else will. If you were a potential sponsor of pool and happened to attend this event in Florida, and you saw a former US Open and BCA Open champion quit in the middle of a match and got wind of it that he went to play golf, why would you ever invest money in mens pro pool?
I think it's SILLY that so many people expect the pros to dress up in a tux, be on their best behavior, etc, when they are usually playing for a first price of $3,000.
My point is, don't expect professional behavior until the pros themselves start being treated like professionals.
And please drop the "when the pros start acting professional they will make more money" bullcrap. Look at them during the 80's-90's. Mike Sigel was putting on shows for the crowd. So many players had character, the fans loved them, but they still got paid jack squat.
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LastTwo said:
I think it's SILLY that so many people expect the pros to dress up in a tux, be on their best behavior, etc, when they are usually playing for a first price of $3,000.
Your right about a tux, the rest I can not agree. Not only do I think that they should act professionaly, we should hold them accountable for how they represent the sport (game) in general.
eh.. I got to talk to Tony Crosby for quite a while for the two days I was there (super nice guy by the way, real strong player too.) At one point I asked him how the UPA was treating him and he was decently happy with the way things were progressing.
You know it's funny about Corey Deuel. I watched him smash Mika Immonen during one of the U.S. Open accustats videos with a huge smile on his face and Mika took it absolutely like a man. Now Corey is getting that same kind of beating from Danny and he whines basically every rack until he finally spouts off some pointless words and breaks his cue down (i was sitting 4 feet from the table the entire match). If you ask me, if you're gonna give ass beatings... You'd better be able to take them too.
You know it's funny about Corey Deuel. I watched him smash Mika Immonen during one of the U.S. Open accustats videos with a huge smile on his face and Mika took it absolutely like a man. Now Corey is getting that same kind of beating from Danny and he whines basically every rack until he finally spouts off some pointless words and breaks his cue down (i was sitting 4 feet from the table the entire match). If you ask me, if you're gonna give ass beatings... You'd better be able to take them too.
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HollywoodHarper
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Emerald Coast Open Winner
Congratulations to Johnny Archer!!! The winner of the Emerald Coast Open (North American Tour Stop 1).
2nd John Schmidt
3rd Charles Bryant
4th Jeremy Jones
Congratulations to Johnny Archer!!! The winner of the Emerald Coast Open (North American Tour Stop 1).
2nd John Schmidt
3rd Charles Bryant
4th Jeremy Jones
My point is, I feel the pros deserve to make alot more money. When they start making the money they deserve, then I think always acting professional should be required, and I'm sure they will do it. The majority of them do act like professionals quite often, and I don't think we should criticize them when one of them acts like a normal human being once every blue moon.
LastTwo said:
(not meaning to sound like a smartass) but could you give us some insight as to where more money will come from? if you owned a company or business would you invest your money in pool sponsorship if every tournament you went to someone acted this way? every major tournament lately seems to have someone getting into an arguement in front of everyone, or walking out in the middle of a match. sports such as golf didn't all of a sudden come up with tons of money to pay their players out of thin air, it started from the ground up. when the general person thinks of golf they have an image of clean cut people out on a golf course having fun. when that same person thinks about pool the first thing that comes to mind is a smoke filled pool room and alot of gambling. until this view of pool changes then the money in pool isn't going to change. this change has to start with the people playing in the tours, and the people running the tours.
thanks