What's Good About A Good Stroke?

Archery, hammering nails, tennis, golf, racquetball, baseball, violin playing, spear chucking,.....all this MENTAL masturbation about how to use the wrist in a pool stroke, and no one thinks of the one thing that is more appropriate than any of those things. (maybe some of you guys only use your fingertips of your thumb and forefinger??)

Yah but your not trying to knock the balls 9ft either.
 
I'm ok with you thinking I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time (and may not be the last). If you can drive 10 nails and not feel this energy in your wrist then you're certainly right. Potential, kinetic energy is not an option.

I always admired Rafael Martinez's pool stroke and so has many other players. He plays at a level that's just as good as Efren, Bustemante, Archer, etc. and if you don't believe me just ask them. I have gambled with all of them and Rafael could do things with the cue ball that were simply amazing.

I ask Rafael how he could generate such power and he explained to me how his father taught him the pool stroke using a hammer. I tried it, incorporated it and used it to create positive outcomes. I guess I could have simply told him he was wrong, but it never occured to me.

Rafael plays up our way often, I have even commentated a couple of his matches. I really enjoy watching him play.
 
The ability to build a bridge from one sport or game to another

Archery, hammering nails, tennis, golf, racquetball, baseball, violin playing, spear chucking,.....all this MENTAL masturbation about how to use the wrist in a pool stroke, and no one thinks of the one thing that is more appropriate than any of those things. (maybe some of you guys only use your fingertips of your thumb and forefinger??)

The ability to build a bridge from one sport or game to another is an effective tool to accelerate* learning. Anchoring, reframing and analogies are also great tools to use in the art of advanced instruction. 'The Game is the Teacher'

bridge-to-basics.png
*ac·cel·er·ate (k-sl-rt)
v. ac·cel·er·at·ed, ac·cel·er·at·ing, ac·cel·er·ates
v.tr.
1. To increase the speed of.
2. To cause to occur sooner than expected.
3. To cause to develop or progress more quickly: a substance used to accelerate a fire.
4.
a. To reduce the time required for (an academic course, for example); compress into a shorter period.
b. To make it possible for (a student) to finish an academic course faster than usual.
5. Physics To change the velocity of.
v.intr.
1. To move or act faster. See Synonyms at speed.
2. To engage in an academic program that progresses faster than usual.
 
... I ask Rafael how he could generate such power and he explained to me how his father taught him the pool stroke using a hammer. I tried it, incorporated it and used it to create positive outcomes. I guess I could have simply told him he was wrong, but it never occured to me.

I guess the next time you see him, you can tell him he doesn't know squat. :smile:
 
Archery, hammering nails, tennis, golf, racquetball, baseball, violin playing, spear chucking,.....all this MENTAL masturbation about how to use the wrist in a pool stroke, and no one thinks of the one thing that is more appropriate than any of those things. (maybe some of you guys only use your fingertips of your thumb and forefinger??)

For once, I'm in agreement with you. I thought NPR was crazy, but this thread makes it a beacon of sanity in comparison.
 
I'm ok with you thinking I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time (and may not be the last). If you can drive 10 nails and not feel this energy in your wrist then you're certainly right. Potential, kinetic energy is not an option.

Could you clarify what you mean by this? The cue would seem to be the only object where the state of energy would make any difference. The cue has no potential energy property, only kinetic energy when it is being moved by the player.


I always admired Rafael Martinez's pool stroke and so has many other players. He plays at a level that's just as good as Efren, Bustemante, Archer, etc. and if you don't believe me just ask them. I have gambled with all of them and Rafael could do things with the cue ball that were simply amazing.

I ask Rafael how he could generate such power and he explained to me how his father taught him the pool stroke using a hammer. I tried it, incorporated it and used it to create positive outcomes. I guess I could have simply told him he was wrong, but it never occured to me.


I'm sure Rafael's wrist action in a pool stroke is something to be emulated by pool players across the world.
:)
 
a fine blend of playing characteristics

Rafael plays up our way often, I have even commentated a couple of his matches. I really enjoy watching him play.

He really is amazing and he plays ALL games at a championship level. I know we do things differently and that's why these discussions are useful. It ends up being a fine blend of playing characteristics.

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He really is amazing and he plays ALL games at a championship level. I know we do things differently and that's why these discussions are useful. It ends up being a fine blend of playing characteristics.



I like players with great imagination and Rafael is one of them. It reminds me of something I heard Jim Rempe say 30 years ago, "there is always a shot on, you just have to look for it" and I have always taken that to heart and I pride myself on being on the more creative side in my style of play and credit Mr Rempe for that.
 
*The potential energy is in the wrist, the more it's cocked, the more is potentially available.

Potential and Kinetic Energy

I understand that, wasn't sure of the context you were using it. If one allows the wrist to flex during the stroke, there is also potential energy. Certainly not as much as there is from "cocking" it and exerting force with the muscles but potential energy all the same.
 
"always feel like you're extending your tip through the cue ball"

He really is amazing and he plays ALL games at a championship level. I know we do things differently and that's why these discussions are useful. It ends up being a fine blend of playing characteristics.



I like players with great imagination and Rafael is one of them. It reminds me of something I heard Jim Rempe say 30 years ago, "there is always a shot on, you just have to look for it" and I have always taken that to heart and I pride myself on being on the more creative side in my style of play and credit Mr Rempe for that.

Jimmy was right in saying that and, in my opinion that's the key element in becoming a "champion". Just like being a "champion mechanic" you must believe there's always a way to solve the problem or you risk becoming a victim. And victims are sentenced to a life of mediocrity at best.

"King James" also told me something that helped as well "always feel like you're extending your tip through the cue ball".....this feeling of extension was something I realized with some of these techniques we're discussing. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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I understand that, wasn't sure of the context you were using it. If one allows the wrist to flex during the stroke, there is also potential energy. Certainly not as much as there is from "cocking" it and exerting force with the muscles but potential energy all the same.

This is correct, and I'm agreeing that everyone is extending potential energy to some extent.....and like in the example of the hammer, the more you raise the hammer (cock the wrist) the more you have at your disposal.

I'm merely suggesting if someone wants more power in their stroke they may want to experiment with pre cocking their wrist like Rafael and I do. Earl Stickland is another one that does it with effective results.

As a matter of fact Earl did a lot of roofing when he was developing as a pool player and my father was a carpenter so I've hammered a lot of nails growing up as well.

Maybe if you never hammered many nails this won't work for you? I'm not sure, I was just presenting it as an option on the topic of this post.
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Seems to me to be a case of "if the shoe fits". Once a nit...always a nit.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

.I did not think it was merely a place for SOME instructors to 'trawl' for potential customers. Ooooh...did ya get that one from Joey? LMAO What exactly do you think CJ is doing here? Answer: "trawling for customers". If you think different, well, like others have already said...

I do not have a piece of paper(cetificate) that is basically the result of paying a fee to take a course & get 'certified' that 'makes' me a 'profesional' The "paper" means nothing. The 1000's of satisfied students (from beginners to champions) speaks volumes. BTW, there is a test to become an instructor. I doubt that you could pass it.

But I have seen you play on You Tube & by that evaluation, your playing level is 'Novice' at best, Really? Hmmmm...never been on you-tube, with the exception of a short clip shooting a speed drill on my dvd.
 
He really is amazing and he plays ALL games at a championship level. I know we do things differently and that's why these discussions are useful. It ends up being a fine blend of playing characteristics.



I like players with great imagination and Rafael is one of them. It reminds me of something I heard Jim Rempe say 30 years ago, "there is always a shot on, you just have to look for it" and I have always taken that to heart and I pride myself on being on the more creative side in my style of play and credit Mr Rempe for that.

Slasher,

One of the first things my Dad told me was, 'there's always a shot...you just have to find it'.

I credit him telling me that with so many of the very difficult shots I have made over the many years.

If you do not look for them, you can not find them.

If you can do not find them, you can not shoot them.

If you do not shoot them, you can not make them.

It all goes back to what we were told & believed to be true. I have never been able to say my Dad lied to me. It came close a couple of times & took a little longer to find, but the shot was there.

Best Regards,
 
Slasher,

One of the first things my Dad told me was, 'there's always a shot...you just have to find it'.

I credit him telling me that with so many of the very difficult shots I have made over the many years.

If you do not look for them, you can not find them.

If you can do not find them, you can not shoot them.

If you do not shoot them, you can not make them.

It all goes back to what we were told & believed to be true. I have never been able to say my Dad lied to me. It came close a couple of times & took a little longer to find, but the shot was there.

Best Regards,

Yes, I heard it "we only will recognize what we're familiar with".
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This is correct, and I'm agreeing that everyone is extending potential energy to some extent.....and like in the example of the hammer, the more you raise the hammer (cock the wrist) the more you have at your disposal.

I'm merely suggesting if someone wants more power in their stroke they may want to experiment with pre cocking their wrist like Rafael and I do. Earl Stickland is another one that does it with effective results.

As a matter of fact Earl did a lot of roofing when he was developing as a pool player and my father was a carpenter so I've hammered a lot of nails growing up as well.

Maybe if you never hammered many nails this won't work for you? I'm not sure, I was just presenting it as an option on the topic of this post.
42-21522270.jpg

I own a Construction/Restoration Company, we build over 400 roofs per year and I grew up in a rural area and was a farm boy. You might say I've hammered a nail or two in my time. :grin:
 
What I find odd is the juxtaposition of the simplicity of striking a cue ball at a given point at a given speed and the complexity of a human arm/muscle/tendon trying to achieve this task. Makes me wonder that if a robots analytical aspect of playing pool was perfected in the software could it play perfectly, seems a hell of a lot simpler than building a toyota.
 
the difference between losing the match and winning the whole tournament

I own a Construction/Restoration Company, we build over 400 roofs per year and I grew up in a rural area and was a farm boy. You might say I've hammered a nail or two in my time. :grin:

Then I would venture to guess you have a lot of strength/power in your hands. I'm a firm believer that hand stength is an important factor in the pool stroke.

I use a 16 Pound shot put and squirt it out of my fingers to increase the strength in my fingers. The stroke this produces can get you out of some tough situations presented in a pool match.

It can be the difference between losing the match and winning the whole tournament.
 
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