What's Good About A Good Stroke?

Man vs Machine...The Ultimate 9Ball Championships

Slasher said:
What I find odd is the juxtaposition of the simplicity of striking a cue ball at a given point at a given speed and the complexity of a human arm/muscle/tendon trying to achieve this task. Makes me wonder that if a robots analytical aspect of playing pool was perfected in the software could it play perfectly, seems a hell of a lot simpler than building a toyota.
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If the robot was kept in the state of being juxtaposed, but isn't that just a sign of a "mis spent youth" and hanging out at too many pool rooms?
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Larry...What exactly would that prove? It would be just like Fast Eddie and Fats..."I'm the best you've ever seen, Fats! Even if you beat me, I'm still the best!" As you know, I have nothing to prove...and most certainly nothing to prove to Rick! LMAO

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

QUOTE=bbb;3830967]i think scott and english should arrange a game
just sayin[/QUOTE]
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Then I would venture to guess you have a lot of strength/power in your hands. I'm a firm believer that hand stength is an important factor in the pool stroke.

I use a 16 Pound shot put and squirt it out of my fingers to increase the strength in my fingers. The stroke this produces can get you out of some tough situations presented in a pool match.

It can be the difference between losing the match and winning the whole tournament.
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CJ, were I to try that, I'd probably drop it on my toe and cause serious pain or put a hole in the floor and my wife would subsequently cause me much greater serious pain. LOL
 
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bbb said:
i think scott and english should arrange a game
just sayin
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bbb

I made a counter 'fair' bet proposal regarding an earlier disagreement to his one sided bet 'come back' when 'convincing' words failed him. The loser would leave AZB forever. It went no where, but I understood, as neither one of the bets would really have prooved anything.

It is not about current playing ability. It is about demeanor.

We all have opinions, but all do not twist words & mis-state or make truthful but totally inapplicable statements in attempts to belittle someone in order to puff up one's self.

You apparently missed my statement saying that I knew a challenge might come & I have declined in advance, as I have no desire to meet or 'socialize' with Mr. Lee, not even in a competitive setting.

My distaste for Mr. Lee has nothing to do with his playing or teaching abilities. They are of a personal nature. I have tried to consider his livelyhood & employ a live & let live. He has not reciprocated in that endeavor.

He has instigated my response & I have made it. I'm done where he is concerned.

I've wished him well in all of his endeavors & I am sincere in that wish.

Let's just let it go. I have.
 
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that's one ball you do not want to drop

nobcitypool said:
CJ, were I to try that, I'd probably drop it on my toe and cause serious pain or put a hole in the floor and my wife would subsequently cause me much greater serious pain. LOL
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Yes indeed, that's one ball you do not want to drop. :wink:

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CJ:
The ability to build a bridge from one sport or game to another is an effective tool to accelerate learning.
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I agree. Comparing familiar activities gives a deeper understanding of all of them; it's not irrelevant nitpicking. Both similarities and dissimilarities can be instructive - if you know which is which.

pj
chgo
 
"off to the races"

Patrick Johnson said:
I agree. Comparing familiar activities gives a deeper understanding of all of them; it's not irrelevant nitpicking. Both similarities and dissimilarities can be instructive - if you know which is which.

pj
chgo
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I'm glad you agree. So cock your wrist, use a touch of inside to create your 3 part pocket system (be sure to accelerate) and you'll be "off to the races".

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Really? How do you explain the players with lesser hand strength and strong stokes.

Alex P. comes to mind. Do you think he has strong hands?

cjssecrets4u2 said:
..... I'm a firm believer that hand stength is an important factor in the pool stroke.

I use a 16 Pound shot put and squirt it out of my fingers to increase the strength in my fingers. The stroke this produces can get you out of some tough situations presented in a pool match.

It can be the difference between losing the match and winning the whole tournament.
Click to expand...
 
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nobcitypool said:
I must say, I am flattered by the company I am keeping by being on your ignore list. Thank you!

I love your comments about using "words too big" when you seem to struggle to spell many basic words. Wow. BTW, I'm not trying to be the Cyber Spelling Police with that comment, I just find it strange you make a reference to how articulate you are when you write and spell like a 4th grader. Perhaps what you should have said is people may have difficulty understanding what you're trying to communicate as it often doesn't make sense and/or the words you use are often not utilized in the correct context.

Your insulting comments towards Scott are quite revealing about you dude. I seriously doubt anyone who has actually met Scott, and spent any time with him, would agree with you in the least. There are numerous adjectives that come to mind I could utilize to describe my opinion of you, however, I won't stoop to your level. I guess it won't matter anyway, since I'm on your ignore list, you won't be reading this post anyway. LOL
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You are forgetting his considerable resume.

"There was this one time, when I was an investigative auditor at Band Camp..."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MH619vxtNdo

In addition to his AZB handle that screams at you to speak ENGLISH! (dammit! ;)), he dipped his cards and showed us he has Spanish skills, too -- in another thread he posed the interesting comment, "Que Sara Sara" -- which I looked up, and in Spanish it apparently means "That [is] Sara Sara."

So this odd OCD behavior is also called Sara Sara. Who knew? I certainly didn't.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
You are forgetting his considerable resume.

"There was this one time, when I was an investigative auditor at Band Camp..."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MH619vxtNdo

In addition to his AZB handle that screams at you to speak ENGLISH! (dammit! ;)), he dipped his cards and showed us he has Spanish skills, too -- in another thread he posed the interesting comment, "Que Sara Sara" -- which I looked up, and in Spanish it apparently means "That [is] Sara Sara."

So this odd OCD behavior is also called Sara Sara. Who knew? I certainly didn't.

-Sean
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Not another AZB lynch mob led* by Sean Leinen!

*from the back, obviously.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What's good about a good stroke? If it's just consistency and accuracy like some say, how does that explain the ability to get more CB action with a better stroke?

Let's take draw for example. To get the most draw with the least effort we want to hit the CB as low as possible without risking a miscue. But our strokes aren't perfect, so to avoid miscues we have to aim far enough from the miscue limit so our usual stroke errors won't go beyond it.

We can't be trusted to do that so our subconscious does it for us, "steering" our stroke closer to centerball so our "range of usual stroke errors" will be mostly inside the miscue limit. Beginning players with really erratic strokes (wide "range of error") who have experienced the trauma of scooping the cue ball a few times can have a hard time forcing themselves to hit below centerball at all, wondering why they aim low but don't get any draw.

As our stroke gets more consistent and our "range of error" gets smaller, our subconscious steers our stroke less, allowing us to hit farther from centerball and get more draw more often. The smaller our "range of error" the closer our subconscious allows our stroke to come to where we think we're aiming.

pj
chgo

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Like to give another definition for good stroke:
A good stroke is a stroke that will allow a player to deliver the CB to OB's desired contact point and at the desired condition of CB at moment of contact. So say he wants to draw cue ball, if CB ran out of spin before it reaches OB then the stroke deemed a failure, he might still pocket the ball, but CB position will not be as desired.
So no mater how you hold a stick if you achieve the above on every shot you should be considered a player with good stroke.
 
naji said:
Like to give another definition for good stroke:
A good stroke is a stroke that will allow a player to deliver the CB to OB's desired contact point and at the desired condition of CB at moment of contact. So say he wants to draw cue ball, if CB ran out of spin before it reaches OB then the stroke deemed a failure, he might still pocket the ball, but CB position will not be as desired.
So no mater how you hold a stick if you achieve the above on every shot you should be considered a player with good stroke.
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Now you are very close. The only problem I see in your post is deeming it a bad stroke if he didn't get the position he wanted. One can still use a perfect stroke and not obtain desired position just because he didn't pick the right spot on the cb to hit in the first place. He hit where he wanted to, but picked the wrong spot or speed.

When one does that, it is easy to adjust to the table because you do have a good reliable stroke and are paying attention.
 
Neil said:
Now you are very close. The only problem I see in your post is deeming it a bad stroke if he didn't get the position he wanted. One can still use a perfect stroke and not obtain desired position just because he didn't pick the right spot on the cb to hit in the first place. He hit where he wanted to, but picked the wrong spot or speed.

When one does that, it is easy to adjust to the table because you do have a good reliable stroke and are paying attention.
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I agree 100% i will rephrase the definition:

A good stroke is a stroke that will allow a player to deliver the CB to OB's desired contact point and at the desired condition of CB at moment of contact. So say a player wants to draw cue ball, if CB ran out of spin before it reaches OB then the stroke deemed a failure because he failed to place the right amount of english on CB or did not follow through enough, he might still pocket the ball,
So no mater how you hold a stick if you achieve the above on every shot you should be considered a player with good stroke.
 
naji...Wow, you finally got it...and only 316 posts after I posted the exact same thing (see post #159).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

naji said:
I agree 100% i will rephrase the definition:

A good stroke is a stroke that will allow a player to deliver the CB to OB's desired contact point and at the desired condition of CB at moment of contact. So say a player wants to draw cue ball, if CB ran out of spin before it reaches OB then the stroke deemed a failure because he failed to place the right amount of english on CB or did not follow through enough, he might still pocket the ball,
So no mater how you hold a stick if you achieve the above on every shot you should be considered a player with good stroke.
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Scott Lee said:
naji...Wow, you finally got it...and only 316 posts after I posted the exact same thing (see post #159).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Below is your post 159, it is vague, regular reader might not get from it the substance. The key point of my post is CB condition at time of contact, and hitting OB at exact contact point desired is what you mean by the paragraph i highlighted in green (i think). Your complete post below:

No matter what somebody does...traditional or nontraditional...elbow drop or no elbow drop...what matters most is the ability to define the motions (semantically and physically) and create a process that you can train yourself to do without thinking. You think about it while you're getting ready to shoot, but when your bridge hand hits the cloth your unconscious takes over. To be able to do that on every shot, on demand, under pressure, in one try, should be the ultimate goal of anybody who wants to consider themselves a good amateur, let alone a pro-ability player. The fact is that using SPF to learn an accurate and repeatable pendulum stroke, is the easiest method for the most players, and delivers significant improvement results, with correctly applied disciplined practice.

It's not for everyone, but for people who are 1) new to the game; 2) veterans that still struggle with consistency, or who have plateaued; or 3) people who play really well one week and flat poorly the next...and have no idea why (or how to fix it), SPF can work wonders. That pretty much covers most poolplayers out there. So...in the end, all that matters, is how you choose to go about it...figure it out on your own; or take a shortcut, get some good direction and a little shove in the a$$! LOL Either way...it's up to YOU!
 
naji said:
A good stroke is a stroke that will allow a player to deliver the CB to OB's desired contact point and at the desired condition of CB at moment of contact.
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Here's what I posted previously:

A "good stroke" is consistent, accurate, and repeatable, with both tip contact point and cue speed.

Now, there are several attributes that generally contribute to a "good stroke" (see stroke 'best practices' and technique advice), but these certainly are not necessary for a "good stroke."

Concerning draw shots, there can be many reasons why a person might not be consistent or successful. They are summarized and demonstrated here:

I think the bolded blue statement says it all.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Here's what I posted previously:

I do not doubt your knowledge and apologies for not reference your library, but lately so many terms been thrown at this topic, i felt to post something that made a little since that can be digested easily:

A "good stroke" is consistent, accurate, and repeatable, with both tip contact point and cue speed.

Above missing main ingredient amount of spin desired at contact point which is dictated by the nice follow through stroke, and as you said speed. Would speed alone does it maybe!!​
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