What's hurt pool since I've been working in and around it for the last 34yrs.
- Thread starter realkingcobra
- Start date
You know you're supposed to wipe the dried polish off before playing with the balls, right?
"Gritty"? LMAO!
Guess his pool instructor forgot that lesson.
No answers here, just some thoughts...
I see this question from time to time..."Why can't pro pool be run like pro golf?" Pool has almost nothing in common with golf, except that you can gamble while playing it. Golf has a pro tour, semi-pro tour, regional tours, and collegiate and junior programs. They're all well organized and well funded. Pool has none of those.
What's something in common between professionals in tennis, golf, soccer, baseball, basketball, and football? They all have established developmental systems from juniors up to the pro level. Even bowling has junior and adult leagues, high school and collegiate programs. But in every sport, most pros start playing as kids.
Bowling is the closest apples-to-apples sport to pool. It's a sport that you can learn quickly, it's cheap and easy to play at a recreational level, you can do it alone or with friends, and you can play for 30 minutes or all day. Pro bowlers aren't millionaires, but the top pros make a good living. The pro bowlers tour also had to come back from the brink of failure in the late 90's.
So I think if you want to use the "people don't want to be pro pool players because they can't get rich like other sports" argument, that's just not a realistic comparison. Pool is never going to be like golf or tennis. If pro pool could at least get to a level like bowling, that would be something.
I see this question from time to time..."Why can't pro pool be run like pro golf?" Pool has almost nothing in common with golf, except that you can gamble while playing it. Golf has a pro tour, semi-pro tour, regional tours, and collegiate and junior programs. They're all well organized and well funded. Pool has none of those.
What's something in common between professionals in tennis, golf, soccer, baseball, basketball, and football? They all have established developmental systems from juniors up to the pro level. Even bowling has junior and adult leagues, high school and collegiate programs. But in every sport, most pros start playing as kids.
Bowling is the closest apples-to-apples sport to pool. It's a sport that you can learn quickly, it's cheap and easy to play at a recreational level, you can do it alone or with friends, and you can play for 30 minutes or all day. Pro bowlers aren't millionaires, but the top pros make a good living. The pro bowlers tour also had to come back from the brink of failure in the late 90's.
So I think if you want to use the "people don't want to be pro pool players because they can't get rich like other sports" argument, that's just not a realistic comparison. Pool is never going to be like golf or tennis. If pro pool could at least get to a level like bowling, that would be something.
And to do that....pool would have to draw the line in the sand somewhere that defines who the Pro's are, who the semi pro's are, and then the rest of the wold full of players that can't or don't meet the requirements....like ALL other Professional sports have done....and there's the problem...NO ONE WANTS TO BE EXCLUDED, as long as they have enough money to cover the entry fees, they feel they have a right to play....who cares if they can win or not, if the races are short enough, and the rules are just right....then they might actually stand a chance to win a match or two....and if they happen to beat a pro, they have a lifetime of bragging rights!
While budgets are drying up, all of these (except perhaps golf depending on who you ask) are considered athletic, the participants staying in shape, and so are supported by those who think kids need exercise. So you get a double hit - people who like the sport, and people who want their couch-potato kids out getting exercise. Also, despite scandals occasionally (and perhaps more wishful thinking than factual) all tend to be thought of generally as "good environment, teaching kids the right stuff" about sportsmanship.
I think if you ask your average non-pool-playing parent (whose main experience is probably The Color of Money) about pool, they won't see it fitting any of those paradigms. Getting development systems setup in schools is going to be rough.
That is the challenge....to get past the stereotype of dive bars and pool halls being smoke-filled places filled with people of questionable morals.
And to go back to the bowling comparison, bowling isn't a sport offered in many K-12 schools, but it has a national-level youth program with instruction, leagues, and tournaments for scholarship prizes. I see a little bit of that with pool, but I also see your point about it not being exercise.
I guarantee you, if the 75th ranked PROFESSIONAL Pool player in the world was pulling down at least 100k a year, you'd see a lot more people playing pool that's for sure. When you stop and think about how many tens of 1000's of people play golf in this world, don't it make you kind of wonder why there's only 150 touring Pro's that represent the game? Pro's are the best of the best in no matter what sport or game they play, and they're supported by the sponsor's that make their paychecks and endorsements possible, and the public viewers are the ones that pay the sponsors by way of buying their products, services or what ever. It's a sales circle, but it's at least organized to work. In the condition pool is in today, what does it have to offer anyone?
Agreed. So many of the issues discussed here are inter-related. It's like...if you had a solid, reputable pro tour, you could define what a pro was. Then you could have "pro only" events, and you wouldn't have to make up goofy rules to give the non-pros a shot. And recognized regional tours where you aspire to get to the pro level. You could also have tighter equipment for the pros because they're the top of their sport (kinda like a brutal oil pattern in bowling or playing from the tips in golf). Then you might have more young people looking up to the pro pool player and wanting to be serious with the game, but a developmental system would really help.
Did I leave anything out?
Your both looking at pool the wrong way, you guys keep thinking this is an American game exclusively, it's not. PRO football, baseball, basketball, bowling, volley ball, and many other sports are ALL AMERICAN sports.
PRO boxing, MMA, tennis, golf, soccer, .... those are international sports, and guess what....so is pool.
The problem is, we here in America still think we control this game...LOL How many millions of people world wide do you think there is that play pool on a regular basis? Belive me, it's in the millions....and yet, the world still can't put together 128 world class top tier Pro's to represent this game????? So that the viewers that would PAY to watch these players playing the best they can against each other in world class tournaments ..... could take place on a regular basis.....no, that's nust a crazy idea....right. Well, that's exactly what it's going to take if anyone expects a sponsor to jump on board with THEIR money that's for sure, and i guarantee you they won't give a damn who a league player is...or a dead money tournament player either.
You want your kids off the couch and outside doing things, stop buying them all the latest vidoe games. If the kids are overweight and could use some exercise, i guarantee you so does mom and dad....so consider a joint effort when it comes to going outside for some exercise....and don't just tell them to get out of the house.for a while and give the video games a break....thats why so many kids are getting in trouble today....the rest of the world is not responsible for watching over your kids while you sit your ass on the couch and take a break while who knows what your kids are doing.
Don't worry about the youth playing pool today getting involved....not going to happen....UNLESS you get the PARENTS involved as well.
I really have only a very local view, but if you drop in on a local pool room, and then drop in on a local bowling alley, there is not a lot of objective difference. The main difference here (and I suspect highly variable by local regulation) is that smoking is not allowed in the bowling alley proper, only in the attached bar portion. But the general environment is similar.
I'd even go so far as to say there's often a rather rough looking crowd in the bowling alleys at times, no different than pool rooms. The main difference -- there's also usually a bunch of families there, often a youth league, birthday parties, games and areas set aside for kids.
I hang around a lot of college and MiLB sports areas, and I see LOTS of advertising there for bowling alleys in the area. They market to youth (and adults). Churches and charity-lodges sponsor teams. Always promotions and give-aways.
For the pool rooms in the area I see them advertised only to the night/clubbing set in "What to do" type magazines, never to the more general public. Some are 21+ only. Despite all (?) serving alcohol, I can't recall a 21+ bowling alley, ever.
How do you get kids interested if you create an environment that varies from hostile to them, to ignoring them?
I suspect if I asked a pool room operator they would say they advertise and promote where their customers are; but that's very circular - if you limit your ads to the late-night party crowd, and never advertise to families, that's all you get.
I'm not knocking the late night party crowd (I'm married to one), just saying that excludes the upcoming generations, they have to stumble into it elsewhere, with no organized path.
If you want youth in pool, someone needs to invite them - advertise to them, and accommodate them.
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I've owned 3 pool halls, all non smoking and no alcohol, all ages. Children under 7 free, but had to be with a parent, parents WITH THEIR children were free, $7 dollar cover charge, 37 pool tables and 60 video games with air hockey and table tennis as well. The last year i kept this one open i had 60,009 kids pay the cover charge to come in, but what was really noticeable to me, seldom did the parents ever come in with their kids, they'd just drive by anx drop them off. At night on Fridays and Saturdays I'd be full of kids with a few axults, and during the weeks if i was full of adults....the kids wouldn't come in. I finally closed my pool rooms thinking for my next business i may just open a daycare!
Fair enough, though not sure why you closed, but it is sad that it is gone. There is nothing that I have seen like that down here, and while not ideal that the children did not come WITH the parents, at least they had a place to play. We've gotten too far away from the days of doing things as a family for all things.
THAT is why we're losing the youths coming into this game... the kids parents never played pool either, so why would anyone expect the kids to ride their bikes to some place they can play on their own.
I am very interested in the Cultural differences, please give us the Pinoy point of view.
IMO There are a lot less distractions and alternate things to do than in the US.
Pool costs almost nothing to play in PI.
Almost anyone, at any age can play pool, including kids.
At least one Pool Table everywhere you go, not just in specialty places like a pool room.
Asia and China is like that also.
They play outdoors on tables that are out of level, have rough cloth and they have fun doing it!
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It's really intimidating for a kid to walk into a Billiards Room on his own.
It may not even be legal for a Minor to be in a Pool Room in some City/Counties.
Plus, not a lot of Pool Halls and "Players" welcome or support youth.
See this thread for a positive view of kids in the Cue Sports.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=456246
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At the end of August, I'm driving 200 miles one way back down to Yakima, WA. to recover 2 Valley 8ft bar tables in the YMCA. The tables there are in horrible condidtion from the company that has been servicing them selling the center on the fact that they're doing the recoveries for free, cloth cost only....at $250 per table for $110 worth of cloth total. So i called Simonis and Ridgebackrails and got donations from both for free, that's $800 worth in materials, and I'm donating my labor for free which would be $600. So, $1,400 worth at no charge is FREE to the YMCA. So, after I'm done with the tables i know there's a lot of kids in the area that'll be there playing pool....because all the rest of the pool tables within 50 miles look just like these 2....including the rock hard cushions!!
Thank you.