What's in a butt?

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Other than different material, wood, balance points and pins, why wouldn't a cheap butt, say an Action, Players, etc., work just as good with a predator, OB-1, etc. shaft than an expensive butt? The way I see, if it's straight and decent wood/material, one could not tell a difference.

JED
 
jed1894 said:
Other than different material, wood, balance points and pins, why wouldn't a cheap butt, say an Action, Players, etc., work just as good with a predator, OB-1, etc. shaft than an expensive butt? The way I see, if it's straight and decent wood/material, one could not tell a difference.

JED


I'd actually be very curious to see what custom cue-makers would have to say on this subject since they would have the knowledge of their defects to base an opinion on.
 
You cannot discredit the materials, balance point, and joint pins. That's what makes a cue a cue. We put as much thought, if not more, into the construction of the butt as we do the shaft. It is true that the Predator shaft wil play the same on any butt but the cue as a whole will not.
 
This thread is not about what I thought it was going to be about :D

I'd say that once you reach a certain price point, style, fit, finish, and quality play a major role....

Since I like trucks, it's like comparing a two door tiny Isuzu, to a 4 door Dodge 1500, to a Mega Cab Dodge Cummins 4x4 3500....or in cars, a Toyota Corolla to a Cadiallac CTV to a Phantom.....as you move up the chain, each offers more options (inlays), each carrys more value (limited), and the fit and finish improve dramatically.....but in all examples, they'll get you to the store, to work, or anywhere you want to go, and most will do it without issue and consistently....my two cents...
 
This is a good question. I would like a cue with an OB-1 shaft, but I hate to spend big bucks on a cue and then never use the shaft.

I've been thinking about getting a low-end McDermott and putting an OB-1 on it, but wish I could buy the butt separately. Why pay for a shaft you won't use?
 
jed1894 said:
Other than different material, wood, balance points and pins, why wouldn't a cheap butt, say an Action, Players, etc., work just as good with a predator, OB-1, etc. shaft than an expensive butt? The way I see, if it's straight and decent wood/material, one could not tell a difference.

JED
Just like anything, the assembly has to be of a good process and the wood has to be stabilized so that in the long run, through various temperature changes to remain a quality assembly.

Much of the processes that cuemakers come up with are meant to reduce possibilities of future failures, while making the assembly as tight as reasonably possible.

So, can a cheaper butt "work just as well." Of course. But, there a lot of things in this world that will work just as well, but may not be the best quality and will/might fail in the future. Think hand tools, for an obvious answer.

Fred
 
i think it's more the type of wood, construction quality, durability, not to mention the way it looks. if you compair a players cue or something cheap like that to almost any custom cue you'll see it falls short of the mark in most if not all of those catagories. nnot to mention that in a custom cue you have something in your hands that someone took a lot of time effort and care to put together. for a while that piece of work was their only concern. when you look at an action or players you have something that was mas produced about 1000 a day
 
jed1894 said:
Other than different material, wood, balance points and pins, why wouldn't a cheap butt, say an Action, Players, etc., work just as good with a predator, OB-1, etc. shaft than an expensive butt? The way I see, if it's straight and decent wood/material, one could not tell a difference.

JED

Jed you tell me? But I think there is more to a butt than looks anyway, I suspect it has allot to do with what go's into making it. I also know through experience, that a butts construction will have a great effect on the over all feel of a strokes transmission of hit. While a shaft and your tip has more effect on cue ball action, this will not effect the overall transmission of hit through a good solidly constructed butt, and nothing feels better that a good butt. ;) :D

big_butts.jpg

Have a great day Jed!!!!!
 
I would think that as you shift from production cues, to more custom made cues with a well respected cuemaker, you will have a difference in the quality of construction of the butt. The custom cuemakers having better overall quality then the cheapies.

That is not to say that you will never find a cheapie cue that hits fantastic, but i would think that it's more a matter of luck that you ended up getting a good shaft/butt combo, then a cue that had all materials chosen for specific reasons.

I have seen enough cue butts that were broken, or cut in half by aspiring and well respected cuemakers to know that there are A LOT of butts that have really crappy structural integrity.
As a matter of fact, i have seen the butt of a cue from a pretty well known cuemaker that was cut in half, and it looked like a piece of swiss cheese on the inside.

Sure it looked fine on the outside, but when it was opened up, you saw holes and spaces, some that were just hollow, and some that were filled with epoxy.

To be perfectly honest, that is one of the reasons that i like my Black Boars.

After asking MANY high end cuemakers exactly how they built their cues, Tony Black Boar was the ONLY one who not only told me how he made his cues, but had different stages of production available, and SHOWED me how he made his sticks. This being well over 10 years ago well before the website came into existence.

I think the majority of cuemakers i asked over the years just kind of laughed at me, citing some top secret production method that was too fantastic to be revealed, while others told me that i could buy the cue, and then have it X-rayed to find out how it was built. (the friggin NERVE)

None of those cuemakers got my money.

Call me strange, but when i am going to go off, and spend a mini fortune on something, i like to know what i'm buying into, and if your not going to reveal that secret to a customer who is about to invest in your product, you don't deserve to have them as customers IMO.

But anyway, i'm going off on a tangent.


Now to answer your question.
If it's a cheapie butt, that has flaws in it, you might develop buzzing, or rattling, or some cheapie related phenomena like the balance being junk, but i would think that by going for a slightly higher "rated" cue, that you will be eliminating the majority of those problems.

Plus, i will never understand why someone is perfectly willing to spend $200+ some dollars on a shaft, and want to slap it on a $60 butt.
That just makes no sense to me, unless you want to go into bars and try to hustle. That is assuming that the cue actually hits good.

Someone should post up some test results with one of those 4 piece butt cues that you get from MODELL's, and slap all the different aftermarket shafts on them and see how they all play.
 
everything, the most important thing in a butt for me is the balance point, the cues with adjustable weight bolts I dont like becaust they are butt heavy or light, the wrap is a matter of personal taste, the looks are as well, but a well made custom cue with a shaft made by the same cue maker is the triple nuts when it comes to performance, the after market shafts are a bunch of marketing guys comming up with ideas to sell more equipment, take any good custom cue makers cue and hit some balls with it and then a massed produced cue and you'll see what i'm talking about, if your a solid B player or better, weaker less experienced players cant tell, its like wine tasting, i know nothing about it so I'm not able to appericate a great vintage etc. The butt of a cue is more important than a shaft unless its a bad shaft but all things being equal a quality shaft and butt is necessary to have a good cue
 
Dead Crab said:
This is a good question. I would like a cue with an OB-1 shaft, but I hate to spend big bucks on a cue and then never use the shaft.

I've been thinking about getting a low-end McDermott and putting an OB-1 on it, but wish I could buy the butt separately. Why pay for a shaft you won't use?
I couldn't believe that McDermott sells their I shafts separately and you apparently can't order one for one of their butts without getting the regular shaft also. I would think that they would knock $50 off or so if you upgrade to the I shaft, but noooooo.
 
bsmutz said:
I couldn't believe that McDermott sells their I shafts separately and you apparently can't order one for one of their butts without getting the regular shaft also. I would think that they would knock $50 off or so if you upgrade to the I shaft, but noooooo.
I think McDermott should have the I1 shafts as a standard and then charge a little extra for the I2 and I3. JMHO

BVal
 
Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'll run a little experiment with my OB-1 and numerous butts that will fit. So far I've tried Meucci, Viking, Players, and Action. I consider myself a B player and I cannot tell the difference between the butts so far.

JED
 
Major Differences in a Butt that affects the hit/feel...(not necessarily in this order)

Wood / Pin / Balance / Diameter / Taper / Wrap / Construction


Major Differences in a Butt that affects what others think of the cue...and or how smart or dumb they think you are for buying it...

Wood / Pin / Balance / Inlay / Finish / Wrap / Cue Maker / Availability / Price
 
For more than 20 years Lance Saunders was hands down the best player in Montana. He used nothing but a junk butt (IIRC it was an old Budweiser cue butt) with a shaft he made himself. This cue didn't look like it was worth $2, but Lance could outplay anybody with it. I remember seeing him do a table length draw on a 3-C table in Billings with that cue. That was one of the first times I ever saw a power draw shot with the bigger billiard balls. It was definitely a case of the "archer" not the arrow or the bow!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
BVal said:
I think McDermott should have the I1 shafts as a standard and then charge a little extra for the I2 and I3. JMHO

BVal

Bval, McDermott will do anything that a dealer requests within reason. I am a dealer for McDermott, and I can tell you without a doubt that they will build cues for me without normal shafts and only the I-shaft. I have done this for a few my of customers.

In addition to this I have also been able purchase butts without a shaft from McDermott. Further more, I have purchased collars for old McDermott's so that I could build customers new shafts, and I have purchased unfinished shafts and finished them to fit McDermott butts.

McDermott has treated me very well as a dealer, I have no complaints with their service before, during or after the sale. I can't say the same thing about other US Production Cue Manufacturers, and I have done business with most.

The misconceptions on this issue are caused by either dealers not knowing, what McDermott will do if asked. Or with dealers who do not want to take the extra time to make things happen for their customers, and either way that is just bad customer service.

Have a good night!!!!
 
Back
Top