https://www.facebook.com/RailbirdsProductions/videos/229875310680551/
Doubt I did this right. Fingers crossed. Watch the 2 ball.
Doubt I did this right. Fingers crossed. Watch the 2 ball.
Whats the call????
- Thread starter jburkm002
- Start date
Its a tough one to swallow if your the shooter, but the ball is not pocketed if it does NOT STAY DOWN . Therefore the balls stay the way the lay and its the next shooters turn at the table. I know that is not the popular vote but its the rule.
10. POCKETED BALLS. A ball is considered as a pocketed ball if as a result of an otherwise legal shot, it drops off the bed of the table into the pocket and remains there. (A ball that drops out of a ball return system onto the floor is not to be construed as a ball that has not remained pocketed.) A ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the table bed is not a pocketed ball
10. POCKETED BALLS. A ball is considered as a pocketed ball if as a result of an otherwise legal shot, it drops off the bed of the table into the pocket and remains there. (A ball that drops out of a ball return system onto the floor is not to be construed as a ball that has not remained pocketed.) A ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the table bed is not a pocketed ball
What part of the above rule you cited applies in this situation?
NOT pocketed. The rules are very clear on this. Any OB that goes into a pocket, but then ruturns to the bed of the table is NOT pocketed. This happens all the time in drop pocket tables, that is why that rule is in place.
Edit, here is the rule (8.3):
link:
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.3
Text:
8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
Edit, here is the rule (8.3):
link:
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.3
Text:
8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
Last edited:
According to the rule you cite it seems to me the ball is considered pocketed. I refer specifically to this part: "A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system."
The ball obviously entered the ball return system or else how did it come out the other side pocket?
Last edited:
But the ball in question entered the ball return system - I believe that rule is only applied if the ball comes out of the same pocket it goes in. This one traveled under the bed in the ball return system and came out another pocket. Thus should be considered pocketed.
I think the first sentence is just generally describing what is a pocketed ball under "normal circumstances". And the end of the paragraph describes what happens under abnormal circumstances, where the ball ends up back on the table bed.
I agree, it is vague on a ball return table. But, I think in the spirit of the rule, a TD would rule the ball not pocketed, because it returned to the bed, and that is how its always been on these rule books. I don't think the spirit of the rules is to qualify what type of pocket system is in play. It either stays down, or returns to the bed of the table. The rule does not care how or why this happened.
I think the most famous case of this, is when Efren and his opponent both had a ball jump back out of the pocket on them. The pocket had a camera or someitng in it, that messed it up. That was clearly a case of something interfering inside the pocket. But the ball came back on the bed, and the official ref ruled it non-pocketed.
I agree, it is vague on a ball return table. But, I think in the spirit of the rule, a TD would rule the ball not pocketed, because it returned to the bed, and that is how its always been on these rule books. I don't think the spirit of the rules is to qualify what type of pocket system is in play. It either stays down, or returns to the bed of the table. The rule does not care how or why this happened.
I think the most famous case of this, is when Efren and his opponent both had a ball jump back out of the pocket on them. The pocket had a camera or someitng in it, that messed it up. That was clearly a case of something interfering inside the pocket. But the ball came back on the bed, and the official ref ruled it non-pocketed.
Well, the Efren situation is pretty clear in the rule - it was deemed the balls didn't come to rest in the pocket. But the way I read the rule, once the ball enters the return system that's it - it's pocketed. Whatever happens after that well, the ball is pocketed regardless. I get that a ball is not pocketed until it is deemed pocketed by the rules. But once a ball is deemed to have been pocketed (in this case by entering the ball return) I don't see how that can be reversed and considered not pocketed.
Where things would have gotten murky would be if the spit up two ball proceeded to make contact with other balls. Do you remove the two ball and play them as they lay, or try to restore the balls? I'd think under the doctrine that the two ball was pocketed, there would have to be an attempt to restore all the disturbed balls. But at some point, like if the balls were moving when contact was made and/or a moving CB was involved, how do you possibly determine where they should go?
Interesting situation. :thumbup:
Last edited:
The whole thing is interesting for sure
Let's see if any of the pro TD's see the video and give their opinion.
Let's see if any of the pro TD's see the video and give their opinion.
If the ball enters one pocket and comes out from another pocket, it has definitely "entered the ball return system" thus making it pocketed. If the ball comes out from the same pocket it has entered, it has not entered the ball return system and it is not pocketed.
That's a mechanical fault of the table. Nothing to do with the shooter. Ball should still be counted. Very rare and weird :thumbup:
There is nothing vague about the ball return portion of the rule - it is a pocketed ball.
Here you go DOG guess you didnt read this part .
A ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the table bed is not a pocketed ball
Ball did not rebound
Rebound = to bound or spring back from force of impact. The ball did not bounce back. I did use to play on a Medalist with a loose ball return track on one of the center pockets. A ball hit firmly from the center of the table would bounce back onto the playing field. I loved telling people it was my only trick shot.
Rebound = to bound or spring back from force of impact. The ball did not bounce back. I did use to play on a Medalist with a loose ball return track on one of the center pockets. A ball hit firmly from the center of the table would bounce back onto the playing field. I loved telling people it was my only trick shot.