Whats the deal with Micarta ferulles?

[bsarlo]

Being new to this, I would definitely have to say that, without reading this thread, if I saw the ad for $70 micarta that is the real deal old school stuff I would think just that. I would not know that what was being sold as the real deal was not actually the real deal. Or is it? This thread leads me to believe that the GE micarta is definitely not the real deal. Which is it?

 

[scdiveteam]

Could'nt agree less, yet you say the same thing i did
Here is one quote from the add that i think is very misleading to someone that is not an expert on the stuff.....

"If you are looking for the real old school micarta, this is the good stuff."

and here's another that's not only misleading, but just plain false, in most people's eyes.

" Great ferrule material, hits better that Ivory"

I'm spinning? OK....Looks like you're the one who's doing the spinning, first going off on Eric, then lying and saying you were'nt selling it on here, etc., etc. I'm not saying you're a crook, persay, but looks pretty obvious too me at least, that you're not as honest as you claim to be either. I think we all know now the GE is not "the real deal" as you say, and definately not worth 5-10X as much as the westinghouse, or ivory for that matter. I was actually a big fan of yours, before earlier in this thread, and not for your cues either, because personally, i think they're just a dowel with ringwork, and i don't share your full core theory. I think cues should have different hits, according to what materials, and woods are used in them My guess, based on your process, is that your cues probably hit about all the same, not bad, but not great either, as do all the other cored cues. Most honest man on the planet, is a bit strong, don't you think? In my experience, the one's that claim to be the most of something, are usually the most of the opposite..........

Subjective statements are what they are and you are never objective, IMO.

 

[danutz]

That sales offer contains all the info one needs to base one's buying decision on. Whether or not some ferrule material hits better or worse than ivory (or, for that matter, any other material), is opinion, as is the part that this no doubt also old material is "the good stuff". The buyer need not base his/her buying decision on opinion. It's sufficiently clear the sale is for GE and not Westinghouse, and spiral-bound asbestos and not flat-laminated paper Micarta. Anyone paying that much, not knowing what they're buying, nor doing their homework, has simply - sorry to be so blunt - got more money than brains (in my perhaps not so humble opinion). To put it more mildly: are there really potential buyers out there paying two to three digits when they don't have a clue what to look for in the first place? Perhaps I'm being typically European about this, but how much need is there to protect customers against just about everything: lack of knowledge and information as well as curiosity, but it's fine for them to be full of naivety, as long as they've got pockets full of cash? Anyone patient enough to read through that offer is going to find all the information they need.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

You are asuming that the only people dumb enough to pay that price, have more cash than brains. Could be, some poor sucker had a westinghouse ferrule once and loved it, but don't know what it's called, or who made it, only that it's "the old good micarta stuff". I guess i just don't think someone should be penalized, or preyed on all the time for being naive. some of the most honest, loving people, are also naive. F em, heh?

 

[scdiveteam]

Being new to this, I would definitely have to say that, without reading this thread, if I saw the ad for $70 micarta that is the real deal old school stuff I would think just that. I would not know that what was being sold as the real deal was not actually the real deal. Or is it? This thread leads me to believe that the GE micarta is definitely not the real deal. Which is it?

You are right to have a questioning attitude! That makes sense.

 

[scdiveteam]

You are asuming that the only people dumb enough to pay that price, have more cash than brains. Could be, some poor sucker had a westinghouse ferrule once and loved it, but don't know what it's called, or who made it, only that it's "the old good micarta stuff". I guess i just don't think someone should be penalized, or preyed on all the time for being naive. some of the most honest, loving people, are also naive. F em, heh?

Are you a cue maker? Or do you just shill for one????

Where are you from and what is you stake in ask the CM. I wonder........ A Lot of questions here........

Most people here have some type of identity, you don't seem to have one and no one ever sends you any messages.

I wonder???????

 

[acousticsguru]

You are asuming that the only people dumb enough to pay that price, have more cash than brains. Could be, some poor sucker had a westinghouse ferrule once and loved it, but don't know what it's called, or who made it, only that it's "the old good micarta stuff". I guess i just don't think someone should be penalized, or preyed on all the time for being naive. some of the most honest, loving people, are also naive. F em, heh?

But that's not the point: the seller takes sufficient pains to point out what he's offering, and what it isn't. Even if one didn't have the slightest clue about Micarta, all that explicit reference to what it is NOT would have anyone with more brains than money (= this is what I'm trying to get at, no more, no less) do their homework, no?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[bsarlo]

You are right to have a questioning attitude! That makes sense.

Thanks. Is the stuff you were selling the real deal old school stuff? Or is it another type of micarta that hits well, is denser, and sells for a similar price?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[acousticsguru]

Being new to this, I would definitely have to say that, without reading this thread, if I saw the ad for $70 micarta that is the real deal old school stuff I would think just that. I would not know that what was being sold as the real deal was not actually the real deal. Or is it? This thread leads me to believe that the GE micarta is definitely not the real deal. Which is it?

Westinghouse is what people are really after - ironically, even if one didn't know, this important bit of information follows directly from that ad.

It's like saying, the car I'm trying to sell you is faster than a Ferrari - the one thing the buyer can't complain about in the end is that he/she got something other than a Ferrari. If the buyer wants to base their buying decision solely on the opinion of the seller that the car is in some way superior to the real thing, that's a completely different matter.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

Or is it another type of micarta that hits well, is denser, and sells for a similar price?

That's exactly what the ad reads like to me… :embarrassed2: It's unfortunate that this doesn't per se provide us with any information about the stuff itself at all.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

You are asuming that the only people dumb enough to pay that price, have more cash than brains. Could be, some poor sucker had a westinghouse ferrule once and loved it, but don't know what it's called, or who made it, only that it's "the old good micarta stuff". I guess i just don't think someone should be penalized, or preyed on all the time for being naive. some of the most honest, loving people, are also naive. F em, heh?

By the way, for what it's worth, I'm myself all that: honest, loving and naïve. But it wouldn't cross my mind it's anyone else's fault.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[danutz]

Being new to this, I would definitely have to say that, without reading this thread, if I saw the ad for $70 micarta that is the real deal old school stuff I would think just that. I would not know that what was being sold as the real deal was not actually the real deal. Or is it? This thread leads me to believe that the GE micarta is definitely not the real deal. Which is it?

Guess i'm not the only one that finds the ad misleading, huh? THAT is my point. If it was'nt for Rick bashing on Eric in this thread, and in another one where he a$$holishly linked the "eric bashing" thread for no good reason, at all, i would'nt have said anything in this one. I feel if he wants to be an a$$ towards other fellow cuemakers, probably cause he's jealous that their uncored cues, play better than his:thumbup:, he's got it coming.
Look buddy, (rick) your more than welcome to check my feedback, i don't have nothing to hide from you. Unlike you, i don't claim to be the most honest person on the planet. For one, i love hustling:thumbup: While not the most honest thing in the world, it's like an art form to me. I feel like a friggin movie star while i'm doing it too:thumbup: And while i do make a cue from time to time, i've decided against calling myself a cuemaker. I'm not looking to drum up business, or have people waiting on me. Takes the fun out of it, (to me at least). If you do see a cue with an -E- on it, i reccomend snatching it up tho Every cue i make is tested by myself, and other 8 speed or better players. You won't ever find an "unhit" one, EVER

 

[carguy]

The yellow stuff

I've been following this discussion for literally years.

In 1967 a repairman put a new tip/ferrule on my then-new Brunswick Personal, which I still have, by the method Palmer and others used: a 6-32 or so stud was installed in the shaft end and a matching threaded hole was made in the solid ferrule. No tenon was used. Lose a tip? Install the extra tip/ferrule assembly.

Here's the interesting part: the ferrule was off-white when new but turned dark yellow over the next 45 years. I know it's age for certain, to the month, actually. June, 1967.

My question: how many of the materials mentioned were available in that year? Does the age narrow this one down? If so we have a nice marker since the age is precise, and it's OLD.

When I get home, I'll post some photos.

I also have a couple ferrules I got from Piercy some time ago. Does anyone have a name for this flavor? Why do you say it's that particular one?

Now that I know everybody in the whole world but me can tell 'em apart by taste and smell alone, I would be interested to know what I have.

The whole issue is of mainly academic interest to me since I seldom use ferrules, but someone may want them installed so knowing the name would be good. Or maybe I'll just call them "the yellow stuff".

Please notice I didn't use the M-word even once.

Robin Snyder

Edit...Concerning "the real deal"...I would suppose there is more than one of these, since apparently different cuemaker's used different materials. As old as my ferrules are, unless there was more than one flavor being used all the way back then, and that could be, my Yellow Stuff is as real as it gets.

 

[rhncue]

Subjective statements are what they are and you are never objective, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danutz
Could'nt agree less, yet you say the same thing i did
Here is one quote from the add that i think is very misleading to someone that is not an expert on the stuff.....

"If you are looking for the real old school micarta, this is the good stuff."

and here's another that's not only misleading, but just plain false, in most people's eyes.

" Great ferrule material, hits better that Ivory"

I'm spinning? OK....Looks like you're the one who's doing the spinning, first going off on Eric, then lying and saying you were'nt selling it on here, etc., etc. I'm not saying you're a crook, persay, but looks pretty obvious too me at least, that you're not as honest as you claim to be either. I think we all know now the GE is not "the real deal" as you say, and definately not worth 5-10X as much as the westinghouse, or ivory for that matter. I was actually a big fan of yours, before earlier in this thread, and not for your cues either, because personally, i think they're just a dowel with ringwork, and i don't share your full core theory. I think cues should have different hits, according to what materials, and woods are used in them My guess, based on your process, is that your cues probably hit about all the same, not bad, but not great either, as do all the other cored cues. Most honest man on the planet, is a bit strong, don't you think? In my experience, the one's that claim to be the most of something, are usually the most of the opposite..........
Subjective statements are what they are and you are never objective, IMO.

I do know one thing for sure and that is calling your GE material Micarta was misleading as the only Micarta in that era was Westinghouse as they had a trademark on that name for most all of their materials and others could not even dream of using that name both, back then, and now. If it wasn't Westinghouse, it wasn't Micarta.

Dick

 

[icem3n]

I do know one thing for sure and that is calling your GE material Micarta was misleading as the only Micarta in that era was Westinghouse as they had a trademark on that name for most all of their materials and others could not even dream of using that name both, back then, and now. If it wasn't Westinghouse, it wasn't Micarta.

Dick

I second that.

 

[acousticsguru]

Quote:
Originally Posted by danutz
Could'nt agree less, yet you say the same thing i did
Here is one quote from the add that i think is very misleading to someone that is not an expert on the stuff.....

"If you are looking for the real old school micarta, this is the good stuff."

and here's another that's not only misleading, but just plain false, in most people's eyes.

" Great ferrule material, hits better that Ivory"

I'm spinning? OK....Looks like you're the one who's doing the spinning, first going off on Eric, then lying and saying you were'nt selling it on here, etc., etc. I'm not saying you're a crook, persay, but looks pretty obvious too me at least, that you're not as honest as you claim to be either. I think we all know now the GE is not "the real deal" as you say, and definately not worth 5-10X as much as the westinghouse, or ivory for that matter. I was actually a big fan of yours, before earlier in this thread, and not for your cues either, because personally, i think they're just a dowel with ringwork, and i don't share your full core theory. I think cues should have different hits, according to what materials, and woods are used in them My guess, based on your process, is that your cues probably hit about all the same, not bad, but not great either, as do all the other cored cues. Most honest man on the planet, is a bit strong, don't you think? In my experience, the one's that claim to be the most of something, are usually the most of the opposite..........
Subjective statements are what they are and you are never objective, IMO.

I do know one thing for sure and that is calling your GE material Micarta was misleading as the only Micarta in that era was Westinghouse as they had a trademark on that name for most all of their materials and others could not even dream of using that name both, back then, and now. If it wasn't Westinghouse, it wasn't Micarta.

Dick

How so? According to e.g. Wikipedia (cf. both the English and German pages), Micarta was developed by George Westinghouse, and is a trademark of General Electric:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta

There's no way around it, folks: historically, there have been several materials referred to as Micarta, yet only one of them has become known as the ferrule material some fondly call the "yellow stuff". It would be more helpful, IMHO, if those in the know stopped insisting "there is only one Micarta". That, to me, is the source of all misunderstandings.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[icem3n]

How so? According to e.g. Wikipedia (cf. both the English and German pages), Micarta was developed by George Westinghouse, and is a trademark of General Electric:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta

There's no way around it, folks: historically, there have been several materials referred to as Micarta, yet only one of them has become known as the ferrule material some fondly call the "yellow stuff". It would be more helpful, IMHO, if those in the know stopped insisting "there is only one Micarta". That, to me, is the source of all misunderstandings.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

1. Contents of articles found in Wikipedia are contributed by Wikipedia users. Wikipedia did states that the content of articles and other projects in Wikipedia is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

2. I can't find any GE mentioned in the English Wikipedia page that you mentioned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta

 

[acousticsguru]

1. Contents of articles found in Wikipedia are contributed by Wikipedia users. Wikipedia did states that the content of articles and other projects in Wikipedia is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

2. I can't find any GE mentioned in the English Wikipedia page that you mentioned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta

That's why I included the German link. But google Micarta and General Electric.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[icem3n]

That's why I included the German link. But google Micarta and General Electric.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Could you direct us with a hyper-link? Thanks.

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Anyone who has read any of my posts here about micarta and did not see where I painstakingly qualified that the material I was talking about was not the Westinghouse sheet material but a rod material will have to re read the posts or continue to believe what they wish to believe.

I worked in the power industry for over 30 years and know thousands of employees working for over 25 utility companies that I had under contract. The material I have spoke about was used for many years on power grids and had to be removed from service and remediated because of the EPA standards regarding asbestos. My research before buying my rod was one on one with professional linemen I knew who where tasked with said removal of this material from service. I did not receive any material from them but bought if from someone who was in the cue making biz for 40 years.

Last year I sold some ferrules in "Wanted For Sale" which it had nothing to do with this thread about sharing info about "whats the deal about micarta ferrules". Bringing up that old "For Sale" thread has nothing to do with the info being shared here and was distraction IMO to try to discredit me and assume that my talking about it here was to promote sales. Not

So if you wish to take anything I said here and twist it around to fit your liking, knock it, or say what ever, that is your prerogative and I am ok with that. If you are friends with Eric and don't like me because of the pissing match, I understand that. AZ should not be about politics but about sharing the truth.

I am a research and experience motivated person who does my homework and works as hard as I can all the time to tell it like it is. If you don't like that, don't read my posts. If you wish to bash them go for it.

I guess it is better to not bring up information about a subject and share it hear as some people can not or do not wish to read and comprehend truths. That's too bad and I am saddened by that fact. This forum should be about sharing things between professionals.

Any path to enlightenment in any endeavor starts with having a questioning attitude without prejudice from a position of humility. I have made the mistake to assume that everyone shares this vision. Guilty as charged your honor!!!!

JMO,

Rick

Handbook on GE Asbestos Micarta

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-WWII-P...se-General-Elec-MICARTA-product-/310396728045

Quote: "But again, there is only one". Not!!!!!


1943/WWII Info on the PLASTIC INDUSTRY'S ASBESTOS USE



Informative hardcover book printed by D. Van Nostrand Co. in good condition gives at least 1000 pgs of detailed info on all types of plastics in use in 1943--their trade names,manufacturers & usages. Lots of charts/tables/diagrams. The consulting engineer was the Editor of Plastics Newsletter & Plastics World. One of the authors/advisors even worked for the Technical Service Division of Plaskon Co. so was very familiar with these products,what they were made from & how they were designed to be used for industrial,military & commercial purposes. This time period was the cutting edge of the plastics explosion, mainly developed by the government for use in the war effort.

"The book is designed to present exhaustively and yet with proper selection the fundamental basis and technology of the plastics industry....it contains nine major sections...the authors intend that these sections should cover fully the present state of the industry, the physical and chemical properties of plastics, their production, manufacture and finishing, and all of the useful information which anyone working with plastics in any part of the industry or anyone desiring full and complete information on plastics should find in a well organized and thorough treatment of the subject," the Preface states in part.

MANY pages on ASBESTOS use throughout the book, from applications in a base for laminates, as fillers, how ASBESTOS paper was used, as well as the why properties of ASBESTOS made it ideal for many purposes. There are also many pages on General Electric's product MICARTA--it's applications, fabrication, molding, physical properties, manufacture of plates.(see scan)



Preface names Advisory committee members employed by:Celanese Corp; Catalin Corp; Plaskon Co.; U.S. Dept of Agriculture; Monsanto Chemical Co.; Bakelite Corp; Dow Chemical Co.; Chicago Molded Products Corp.; Tennesse Eastman Corp.; Durite Plastics; MICARTA DEPT., Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co.; E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.; Boonton Molding Co.; Durez Plastics & Chemicals Corp.; GENERAL ELECTRIC Co; Shaw Insulator Co; Synthane Corp.; Detroit Macoid Co.

Outline Table of Contents: Part. 1. Introduction; Pt. II. Physical Properties of Plastics; Pt III. Materials; Pt. IV. Manufacture of Plastics; Pt. V. Processing & Fabrication: Pt. VI. Chemistry of Plastics; Pt. VII. Application of Plastics; Pt. VIII Commercial Considerations.; Pt. IX. Appendix--Glossary--Bibliography. Many charts, graphs, diagrams (listed are 129 Tables).

A more detailed table of contents also exists which includes such as "a Survey of the Industry" listing nearly each company above's contributions as well as Union Carbide & Carbon Corp.; American Cyanamid; Carbide & Carbon Chemicals Corp;, Catalin Corp.; Continental Diamond Fibre Co.; Dow Chemical.


Everything you want to know about PLASTICS & the use of ASBESTOS in industrial & everyday products! Great for the ASBESTOS litigator! I have marked many of the ASBESTOS pages with post-it tabs but this book is just too thick & full of information to do a thorough study myself--no doubt you'll find even more than I have when you examine it more closely with your needs in mind!

 

[acousticsguru]

By the way, I'd like to refer whomever wants to know all about Micarta to knife/blade forums, because in contrast to us pool players, they're interested in and use many if not all the different ones. Admittedly, I'm a bit weary of consulting one of my dearest friends, a chef and former billiards student of mine who makes his own knives - I'm afraid I'll end up knowing more about all the Micartas I need not even know anything about than a stop shot…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti