Whats The Play Here?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i had this situation come up a couple of times last night, and messed up both times. how do you get to the 5-Ball from the 4-Ball? the 4-Ball isnt quite straight in, there is a slight angle. the first time i tried what i call the low right pop shot, and that didnt work. the 2nd time i went 12:00 and came around and got a tough shot on the 5-Ball, and missed.

so, whats the play? high left here?

thanks for any help/advice.
DCP

CueTable Help

 
If there is room to cheat the pocket enough, I would play the 4 into the left side of the corner pocket hard with a slightly-below-center hit to get one-rail positiion on the 5 into the same pocket. If the pocket is very small and I can't cheat it that far, I would roll up and play the 5 into the side pocket.
 
To keep it simple I'd punch it just enough to get it off the rail by a couple of inches and shoot the 5 into the side.
 
You're overcomplicating.

Slow roll the 4 ball and shoot the 5 in the side.

That is "the shot."
 
Sometimes you need to take the more difficult shot to give yourself a chance to get out of the rack.

In 9 ball, whenever you are out of line - your main goal (with the exception of making the shot) is to get back in line. There will be time when you need to take what the table has given you - in this case the shot on the 4 ball - and sometimes you may have to opt for a tougher shot on the 5 to get back in line so you can get out of the rest of the rack.

Going 2 rails for the 5 in either corner -(drawing or followin) you can either overhit or underhit that and be left up $hit creek no matter how you do it - or you can hit it perfectly and get back in line... it depends on your skills and confidence at that point in time.

You could also pocket that 4 where she lays -
then pop the 5 on the lower side pocket -
this will get you back in line for the 6 -

Albeit the initial shot is worse of two evils... you can stop on the 6 and you have a great angle on the 7 - which gets you out from here.

When you are out of line, always break the out down to where it is the simplest. 25 years ago, I would watch Buddy Hall play for hours and hours on end and I took notes. I watched his routes, I watched the way he controlled the cue ball, and I watched the way he controlled the situation. If he got out of line, he found a way to get back in line.

DCP,
It seems to me that a lot of your situations and questions come from being on the wrong side of the ball, or by being completely out of position. This tells me that you may want to spend some time working on your patterns - or - find some drills that will help you to strengthen that part of your game. When 95% of your problems are cue ball control issues or position errors, that is a red flag that should tell you that perhaps you are not practicing and strengthening the areas of your game that actually need it. Send me a PM and I will give you my new phone number. I can send you some position drills that will help you immensely.
 
DCP,
It's like Blackjack says.

I believe this is one area where playing on your unshimmed table may be hurting your development. On a very tight pocket table that 4 is oddly enough even missable if you have to really juice up the cue ball with high inside English; and proper position on the 5 is NOT automatic. It seems that you are afraid of the side pocket (you've mentioned this before), and don't have enough fear of pounding the 4 into the corner (your loose pockets encourage this type of play).

These shots come up ALL the time in straight pool (both the side pocket shot, and the "escape the bottom rail" shot on the 4). The beauty of straight pool, is that you will in short order develop a deathly fear of being too straight on balls like the 4; and you will learn to do whatever it takes to leave the proper angle (and since we all fail often, you will get tremendous experience at recovering from these situations). I'm positive BJ's drills should help you in this endeavor.

Remember that any ball like the 5 can easily be shot into the side pocket; your diagram looks like a stop-stop-stop-stop roadmap (though you will be a bit close to the rail after sinking the 4).
 
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Well first that is a crappy position to be in to begin with LOL. I suppose that the shot I would take would depend if we are playing for money and for how much.

Safest option: Stop shot on the 4 and shoot the 5 in the side which will get you back in line for the 6. (money game)

Option 2: Put a ton of top on the cue and let it double the corner. It you do it right you will line up perfect. The thing that I do not like about this option is that there is a huge margin for error. (having fun)

I think your best bet is to work on the shape with your previous shot that put you in that spot to begin with. ;)

Hope that helps
 
Shot

Here's what I would do and why:

1) Shooting the 4 in the corner and trying to shoot the 5 in the side would probably be my last choice, because: a) Those touchy side shots are some of the most missed shots. B) If the cue ball is close to the rail, makes it that much harder. C) If you end up having to cut the 5 to the right, then the cue ball goes away from the 6, with increased angle for making the 6, plus harder to get back in line for the 7.

I would use low left and punch thru the ball sending the cue ball up by the middle diamond on the long rail in the area of the 7 ball, with the cue ball not on the rail. This gives me a shot not far from straight in in which I have better control over the cue ball for 6 ball position.

I would choose this shot because the line of the cue ball brings you INTO shape, instead of coming around it by using upper left or lower right english (passing shape shot which depends on perfect speed).
 
Blackjack said:
DCP,
It seems to me that a lot of your situations and questions come from being on the wrong side of the ball, or by being completely out of position. This tells me that you may want to spend some time working on your patterns - or - find some drills that will help you to strengthen that part of your game. When 95% of your problems are cue ball control issues or position errors, that is a red flag that should tell you that perhaps you are not practicing and strengthening the areas of your game that actually need it. Send me a PM and I will give you my new phone number. I can send you some position drills that will help you immensely.
Click to expand...

i will send you a PM momentarily Blackjack............

however, this spread was right after the break shot. to me its one of those "Squirrely" type of shots that looks simple, but can go wrong in a hurry.

DCP
 
Snapshot9 said:
Here's what I would do and why:

1) Shooting the 4 in the corner and trying to shoot the 5 in the side would probably be my last choice, because: a) Those touchy side shots are some of the most missed shots. B) If the cue ball is close to the rail, makes it that much harder. C) If you end up having to cut the 5 to the right, then the cue ball goes away from the 6, with increased angle for making the 6, plus harder to get back in line for the 7.
Click to expand...

Well I suppose it is really up to whether or not you feel comfortable with the side pocket. I always feel as though I can drive a Mack truck through it. It would be pretty hard to get on the wrong side of the 5 from there since it's a simple stop shot. If a guy can't get that shape without a problem than we are talking about the wrong option. We should then be talking about the best way to break your cue down and which way to drive home:D
 
Williebetmore said:
DCP,
It's like Blackjack says.

I believe this is one area where playing on your unshimmed table may be hurting your development. On a very tight pocket table that 4 is oddly enough even missable if you have to really juice up the cue ball with high inside English; and proper position on the 5 is NOT automatic. It seems that you are afraid of the side pocket (you've mentioned this before), and don't have enough fear of pounding the 4 into the corner (your loose pockets encourage this type of play).
Click to expand...

good points here, maestro. and yep, you are right, i am pretty much afraid to shoot anything into my side pockets. they just spit them balls out too much. perhaps its just me, dunno. am seriously leaning towards getting new cloth, and having the pockets shimmed at the same time. including those "Wedge Shaped" shims for the side pockets.

do you ever see our #1 tip-top table mechanic up your way Willie?

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
good points here, maestro. and yep, you are right, i am pretty much afraid to shoot anything into my side pockets. they just spit them balls out too much. perhaps its just me, dunno. am seriously leaning towards getting new cloth, and having the pockets shimmed at the same time. including those "Wedge Shaped" shims for the side pockets.

do you ever see our #1 tip-top table mechanic up your way Willie?

DCP
Click to expand...

At one time I hated them as well. I shoot on 9 ft diamonds and those have to bee some of the toughest side pockets to shoot at. Just keep in mind to shoot past the first tit and you'll be fine.
 
Snapshot9 said:
If you end up having to cut the 5 to the right, then the cue ball goes away from the 6, with increased angle for making the 6, plus harder to get back in line for the 7.
Click to expand...

It'd be very tough to get bad shape on both the 5 and 6 from this layout. Granted, the shot on the 5 isn't the easiest thing in the world, but if you're the type of player that's looking to run this out - the shot is almost routine.

DCP, have you set up this layout since posting and tried shooting the 5 at the side? I want to hear about how it works out for you. And you'll love those shims when you get them.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i had this situation come up a couple of times last night, and messed up both times. how do you get to the 5-Ball from the 4-Ball? the 4-Ball isnt quite straight in, there is a slight angle. the first time i tried what i call the low right pop shot, and that didnt work. the 2nd time i went 12:00 and came around and got a tough shot on the 5-Ball, and missed.

so, whats the play? high left here?

thanks for any help/advice.
DCP

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
I really think this one needs to be brought to the table. I can't imagine a single person would opt for the 5-ball in the side pocket as their primary choice, even though the many of the responders have wrote it as such.

That 5-ball is 1 1/2 diamonds from the head rail. I placed the ball exactly as it lays on my table. I don't like the shot with ball-in-hand.

I've got to believe that top players play this

1. two rails with draw for 5-ball in the same pocket as the 4-ball
2. two rails with soft inside, for 5-ball in the lower right corner
3. two rails firm with for the 5-ball in the same pocket as the 4-ball

Fred
 
6 Pocket Mike said:
At one time I hated them as well. I shoot on 9 ft diamonds and those have to bee some of the toughest side pockets to shoot at. Just keep in mind to shoot past the first tit and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

i agree that "Tough" is the word for mine, not tight. if you hit the facing of my side pockets more often than not the ball is spit back out. so, i try and eliminate that side of the side pocket, and often times undercut, and hit the point.

its my understanding that those wedge shaped shims will make my side pockets go from this:

\___/

to more like this:

|___|

which, in turn, makes them smaller, but when you do hit the facing the balls will be directed into the pocket, not back out onto the table.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i agree that "Tough" is the word for mine, not tight. if you hit the facing of my side pockets more often than not the ball is spit back out. so, i try and eliminate that side of the side pocket, and often times undercut, and hit the point.

its my understanding that those wedge shaped shims will make my side pockets go from this:

\___/

to more like this:

|___|

which, in turn, makes them smaller, but when you do hit the facing the balls will be directed into the pocket, not back out onto the table.

DCP
Click to expand...

Another thing that is huge is how hard you hit the ball. If I'm looking at a really tight cut to the side I play complete pocket speed just to get it to the lip of the pocket and most times it will just flop in. There is a drill that I practice from time to time. I set up an object ball 1 1/2 balls length off of the rail at the center diamond. I then take the cue call and put it on the rail in from of the corner pocket. I then practice cutting the object call into the side pocket from there. If you can make that shot 1 out of 2 times you'll have the confidence to cut just about anything. ;)
 
Thanks

Fred, finally someone with some sense.

And the way I feel is that if you aren't aware of the little problems that can pop up with that 5 ball shot in the side, then you need to be breaking down your stick. Not many good players would elect to shoot a long shot into the side pocket with the cue ball close to the rail, maybe skill levels 5 and below might.

You have some angle on the 4, and if you can't get shape on the 5, you aren't going to win anyway. Let's just say I would shoot the out 20 times in a row my way, and you shoot it your way (with the 5 going in the side) for
$20 a completed run, and we'll see who is paying who when it is done. I will take that bet.

It doesn't matter if it is a bar or big table.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Fred, finally someone with some sense.
Click to expand...


There's more than one way to paint a picture.
We're all just trying to contribute as best we can.
Either way, there's really no need for rudeness.
 
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