What's the proper etiquic?

[tjlmbklr]

What's the proper etiquette?

I recently befriended a new pool playing buddy. I met him when he became a permanent sub in league for another team. I noticed when we played him the CB was 1/4" away from the OB. He was going to shoot straight on. So I warned him of the double hit. Yes the allusive double hit that people don't seem to think happens. Well since it was league it was easy to tell (or warn rather) that he has to hit off to the side to avoid this. He agreed and ended losing that game.

Well I played pool at his house and several times this situation came up. But this time I never said anything. We weren't playing for anything, just fun. But I played a safety to (14:1) to keep him locked up and he ended up making a combo carom kiss yadda yadda into the side. But he pushed through the shot and definitely double kissed the CB. But most never realize they are doing this. I see people do these shots all the time at bars and I never say then. But this is Straight pool (or whatever we're playing) with rules unlike a bar box 8ball game.

How does one approach this?

 

[Tiddler]

Educate

Take the roll of educator and explain why they have a double hit when the cue ball continues past the object ball. I've known some very strong players who believed (wrongly) that if they hit down on the cue ball it wasn't a bad hit even though the cue ball would shoot through and past the object ball before the draw would take.

 

["T"]

Yep, but educate quickly. The longer you wait and think about it, the longer you wait and think about it.

 

[3andstop]

45+ yrs playing this game and I still don't like the lack of definitive ruling on this issue, more so with frozen balls (Unless something changed recently in the rules that is, cause I stopped looking when everybody started calling their rules official)

Anyway, we always play, so long as you are elevated and stroke one clean stroke of the cue, we NEVER call a foul, unless the cue ball beats the object ball to the pocket.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

One way to perhaps explain the rule to him is through video. Here are a couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rip8xwobksc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbAzu_sCS4

The second video has some very cool slo-mo that shows clearly what is actually happening. Towards the end of the video however, they show some legal hits that on the slo-mo I'm not so sure about. A couple of them still look like double hits.

But maybe this will help. At least these clearly show how the action of the cue ball after contact evidences if it was double struck.

DogsPlayingPool

 

[JoeyA]

Billiardphiles and Bangers

There's two types of people who play pool; billiardphiles and bangers.

Some people do not want to know what the correct rules are and do not like being corrected. Most of the time, those people are bangers.

Socially, with bangers and other people who are not billiardphiles I do not attempt to correct their mistakes unless they ask. I try not to play pool with bangers but it happens and I just bite my tongue. If the banger shows some interest in learning the correct way to play pool and upgrade to a billiardphile, I will diplomatically tell them the rules as they break them. :smile:

JoeyA

 

[softshot]

see thats the problem.. lots of science guys Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave... with the high speed cameras and definitive proof.. are showing all of us that what we think happens on a shot isn't really happening the way we thought it was..

and the rules have yet to reflect this new information..

for example

it is illegal to intentionally jump a ball with a level cue (scoop shot)

however you hit a high speed break shot with a level cue

everyone who has seen the video KNOWS that the cueball leaves the table during a high speed break shot.. in effect.. jumping the ball with a level cue..

a foul

you know the ball will jump with a level cue .. but you hit it that hard "intentionally" despite the knowledge that you are jumping a ball..illegally

there are some wrinkles that need to be ironed out...

I think the rules need a measurable interval between hits to constitute a double hit..

some "double hits" actually make contact with the cueball several times...

there is a difference between "being true to the game" and being realistic...we are not there yet

 

["T"]

There's two types of people who play pool; billiardphiles and bangers.

Some people do not want to know what the correct rules are and do not like being corrected. Most of the time, those people are bangers.

Socially, with bangers and other people who are not billiardphiles I do not attempt to correct their mistakes unless they ask. I try not to play pool with bangers but it happens and I just bite my tongue. If the banger shows some interest in learning the correct way to play pool and upgrade to a billiardphile, I will diplomatically tell them the rules as they break them. :smile:

JoeyA

Billiardphile? That's an awfully big word for a....... nevermind!

 

[tigerseye]

If i am playing someone in a tourney and the situation comes up i will call the TD or league operator over to watch the hit. Once u have done that then the player will be curious as to why you have done that. That would be the time to let the league operator or TD explain the rule to them...
That way it keeps you out of any fussin...
Hopefully the League operator knows the rules...lol!

 

[foxcues]

I got knocked out of a big tourn. (5th-6th)in chatanooga tn. in the late 90`s due to a push shot.
I fouled (miscued)and it was hill hill the 3 was tied up and the 2 was just over a ball width from the rail and the 9 nearly in the side pocket.
The guy takes the cueball sets it between the 2 and the rail leaving less than a 1/4 inch between them.I knew he was going to try the combo.I called for the ref to watch the hit.The guy shoots straight through the balls making the 2 and the 9 in the same pocket and almost making the cueball all in the same pocket.
The ref says good hit! I ask him how he thinks that was good hit?He says why wasn`t it a good hit?I explain the rule to him and he says he knows nothing about that rule.
I ask around to see if anyone has a rulebook.I found one and took it and showed the rule to the ref.He read it and agreed it was a bad hit after reading the rule then tells me he already declared the hit good so he couldn`t reverse his decision.My partner ended up winning the tourn. but now I always ask the person making the call if they know the rule beforehand and I carry a rulebook in my case.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I got knocked out of a big tourn...

...My partner ended up winning the tourn.

Well, so much for the "billiardphiles and bangers" theory, I guess. And I was liking that theory, too - Oh well. :grin-square: This guy you played was good enough to win the whole tournament and he didn't have a clue, on top of which the tournament director was ignorant as well.

I don't get around as much as some of you guys (don't play in a league), but I'm surprised that so many are uninformed about this, so much so that tournament winners and TD's don't know these rules regarding push-shots and double hits.

 

[tjlmbklr]

There's two types of people who play pool; billiardphiles and bangers.

Some people do not want to know what the correct rules are and do not like being corrected. Most of the time, those people are bangers.

Socially, with bangers and other people who are not billiardphiles I do not attempt to correct their mistakes unless they ask. I try not to play pool with bangers but it happens and I just bite my tongue. If the banger shows some interest in learning the correct way to play pool and upgrade to a billiardphile, I will diplomatically tell them the rules as they break them. :smile:

JoeyA

That makes me a "billiardbangerphile" :speechless:

 

[tjlmbklr]

If i am playing someone in a tourney and the situation comes up i will call the TD or league operator over to watch the hit. Once u have done that then the player will be curious as to why you have done that. That would be the time to let the league operator or TD explain the rule to them...
That way it keeps you out of any fussin...
Hopefully the League operator knows the rules...lol!

That works in tourny/league play but the real question is how to address without seeming snobbish in someone else's basement?

 

[tjlmbklr]

........... but now I always ask the person making the call if they know the rule beforehand and I carry a rulebook in my case.

I do, but not sure how to approach the issue when playing for fun in HIS basement.

 

[JoeyA]

Quasibilliardphile

That makes me a "billiardbangerphile" :speechless:

Both ways, eh? Each to his own. j/k

Actually, I think you might be a quasibilliardphile. :thumbup:
JoeyA

 

[jasonlaus]

see thats the problem.. lots of science guys Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave... with the high speed cameras and definitive proof.. are showing all of us that what we think happens on a shot isn't really happening the way we thought it was..

and the rules have yet to reflect this new information..

for example

it is illegal to intentionally jump a ball with a level cue (scoop shot)

however you hit a high speed break shot with a level cue

everyone who has seen the video KNOWS that the cueball leaves the table during a high speed break shot.. in effect.. jumping the ball with a level cue..

a foul

you know the ball will jump with a level cue .. but you hit it that hard "intentionally" despite the knowledge that you are jumping a ball..illegally

there are some wrinkles that need to be ironed out...

I think the rules need a measurable interval between hits to constitute a double hit..

some "double hits" actually make contact with the cueball several times...

there is a difference between "being true to the game" and being realistic...we are not there yet

Nevermind.........

 

[RBC]

The rules are pretty clear that it is illegal to hit the cue ball more than once.

The problem is that this is so often called a "push" shot. It is a double hit, and not a push shot. A "Push" shot is when you put the tip against the ball and then push the cue ball with the tip. It is not a "hit" as would happen on a normal stroke.

There is no way to make a rule based on how close the balls are. I have seen double hits when the balls are several inches apart, as well as I have seen legal shots made when the balls were very close to each other. And this was without elevating the cue !

The only solution is to help everyone that wants to learn how to tell if it is a double hit. I am guessing that the videos do a good job of explaining this, even though I haven't watched them yet. It's pretty easy to tell, if the cue ball reacts in a way that it couldn't unless it was hit a second time, then it was a bad hit.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[Cuebacca]

it is illegal to intentionally jump a ball with a level cue (scoop shot)

however you hit a high speed break shot with a level cue

everyone who has seen the video KNOWS that the cueball leaves the table during a high speed break shot.. in effect.. jumping the ball with a level cue..

a foul

you know the ball will jump with a level cue .. but you hit it that hard "intentionally" despite the knowledge that you are jumping a ball..illegally

It's impossible to break from the kitchen with a perfectly level cue because the rail prevents it from being level. So that's why the cue ball jumps; you're hitting down on the ball just like other legal jumps.

 

[foxcues]

Well, so much for the "billiardphiles and bangers" theory, I guess. And I was liking that theory, too - Oh well. :grin-square: This guy you played was good enough to win the whole tournament and he didn't have a clue, on top of which the tournament director was ignorant as well.

I don't get around as much as some of you guys (don't play in a league), but I'm surprised that so many are uninformed about this, so much so that tournament winners and TD's don't know these rules regarding push-shots and double hits.

The guy I played ended up 3rd and my buddy won the tourn.There was 64 players.I don`t nor will I ever play league.It`s just not for me.I will play tourn. or gamble.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Does anyone remember a pool room that kept a list of rules posted on the wall for all the various games being played?

Each pool room seems to reserve the right to have specific rules for play that are geared to the house players.

These are some of the rules I've seen in different pool rooms. Of course these rules aren't written anywhere, but everyone remembers them when needed.

In 9 ball
1. the game doesn't start until you hit the 1 ball, no matter what happens, if you don't hit the 1 ball first, you get to break until you make a legal break.
2. if you commit a foul on the break, it doesn't count towards the 3 foul rule.
3. all disputes about a shot will go to the shooter.
4. the 2 ball must be placed in the 4th row of the 9 ball rack.
5. newcomers are never allowed to win more than 50% of any break pot.

also, players that need reading glasses to read the paper, can never proclaim a gap between balls without his/her reading glasses being worn.