What's the theory behind a piloted joint?

I

Impact Blue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...especially a wooden one? Those collars seem fragile to me, but you see them on enough builders to know serves a higher philosophy.

And "better feel" seems too subjective of an answer. To lathe something so particular must have a purpose. Brass collars too, why not?

Attaching a picture, but no maker, for honest opinions.

Thanks!

pilot.jpg

edit: for bad spelling.
 
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With my cues, the pin just pulls the 2 pieces together.
The spigot aligns the 2 pieces, instead of the pin both align and clamping.
The spigot also reduces any sideways movement in the shaft.
 
Agreed. A snug fitting pilot ensures alignment, no sideways movement of the shaft, and no separation of the joint faces. IMO it unites the shaft to the butt, making it more like one solid unit. As far as feel...who knows.
 
Thanks for the reply guys! I can see the prevention of lateral flex, especially with the g-10 pin above. Well, maybe they have the tensile strength of steel/brass/titanium?...I dunno.

(Man, I really want to build my own cue.)

Keep the theories coming!! lol
 
Impact Blue said:
...especially a wooden one? Those collars seem fragile to me, but you see them on enough builders to know serves a higher philosophy.

And "better feel" seems too subjective of an answer. To lathe something so particular must have a purpose. Brass collars too, why not?

Attaching a picture, but no maker, for honest opinions.

Thanks!
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Impact Blue said:
Personally I do not like the unsupported wooded Pilot at all, in my opinion it is an accident waiting to happen. I mean no disrespect to anyone or any cue maker, however, this is my opinion and I would never build a piloted wood to wood shaft like that. There are other ways to do the same job that are stable, stronger, and will work just as well if not better.

Take Care
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Piloted joints are usually more for alignment than for feel. If I left the wood out like that I would definitely want to treat the wood with a chemical to harden it. I prefer flat faced joints myself, but that is just my personal preference. There are many ways that work well. And just because one way is not as strong as another method, does not mean it is not strong enough, so those pilots may hold up for a lifetime.
 
cueman said:
Piloted joints are usually more for alignment than for feel. If I left the wood out like that I would definitely want to treat the wood with a chemical to harden it. I prefer flat faced joints myself, but that is just my personal preference. There are many ways that work well. And just because one way is not as strong as another method, does not mean it is not strong enough, so those pilots may hold up for a lifetime.
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Thanks for that. Do you prefer playing with flat faced joints and/or making them, and why?
 
They look cool but if the faces are dead square and you have a SW or radial or acme pin, I think they are overkill.
You can only have so much register.
If you look at the outside of that G10 pin, you will notice it's flat.
That flat hits the bottom of the shafts' threads which are also flat.
IF they are dead 90 degrees from of the face of the butt, the pilot becomes moot imo.
 
cueman said:
Piloted joints are usually more for alignment than for feel. If I left the wood out like that I would definitely want to treat the wood with a chemical to harden it. I prefer flat faced joints myself, but that is just my personal preference. There are many ways that work well. And just because one way is not as strong as another method, does not mean it is not strong enough, so those pilots may hold up for a lifetime.
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I agree with Chris that the flat faced joint is the best all around connection in cues. The reason is that with the flat faced joint there is maximum contact between wood surfacres where as with poloted joints the pilot cannot bottom out or the joint will not seat properly.

Accuracy or alighment is no longer a problem with the Radial type screws used today which are accurate to tenths of thousands.

Some players prefer the pilot joint and for them that is ok in my book.

Good Cuemaking,
 
Big-Tattoo said:
We have to ask Tony Zinzola.Hey Tony please give a Statement.
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The reason I use a piloted joint is because before I started building cues, the only cue I would play with was a Lambros. I tried several cues and that was the best hitting cue I could find.

When I started building my own cues, I tried a few different joint types and that was the one I liked the best. Maybe it was all mental, I don't know. I do know that the cue I recently built for Charlie Edwards had a flat faced Ivory Joint and the hit was fantastic, so I really don't think it makes all that much difference.

I've also had several repeat customers who weren't sure on their first cue, but went with the piloted joint. When they ordered the second cue, they requested it. Since people seem to like it, I see no reason to change.

As far as the strength of the piloted portion. If you're not abusing the cue, I don't see why it won't last forever. If you feel the need to throw your cue or smack it against the table, I wouldn't want to build you one anyway.
 
Impact Blue said:
...especially a wooden one? Those collars seem fragile to me, but you see them on enough builders to know serves a higher philosophy.

And "better feel" seems too subjective of an answer. To lathe something so particular must have a purpose. Brass collars too, why not?

Attaching a picture, but no maker, for honest opinions.

Thanks!

View attachment 83579

edit: for bad spelling.
Click to expand...


HEY PICTURE THIEF, DID YOU ASK PERMISSION? WERE'S MY ROYALTIES???????:p

Kidding, I've commented on this on many threads, Tony summed it up, Lambros is my favorite cuemaker, if I didn't make cues I would still be shooting with mine, which one? Probly the ebony and Ivory one, or the other ebony and ivory one, or maybe the birdseye, ebony and ivory one. Then again theres always the tiger/cocobolo 5 point 5 venner wrapless. Maybe I should start shooting with my lambros again:D

Well people can say what they will, I make piloted joints, and Flat joints. Are they easy, not if your objective is to have the pilot tight, and the very bottum of the shaft pilot barely touch the bottom of the joint on the butt. I've seen a few that are just there for looks and so the maker can say it's piloted.

The only way they are going to break is from abuse and carelessness (sp?). Same as Tony, We have customers that don't want any joint but the piloted, then again right now most of our cues are Flat faced, so it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
 
I have tried all Joint Type's in 28 Years of playing Pool and the Best is from high End Mc Daniel's the Ivory Joint with Fiber Ring and Tony's Piloted Joint.
I haved tried many Cuemakers as well.
That's my Opinion,
Ralf
 
Impact Blue said:
Thanks for that. Do you prefer playing with flat faced joints and/or making them, and why?
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Yes I prefer playing with the flat faced as I like the crisp natural feel it gives me. Making cues with a pilot would actually be easier in some ways, so if I liked the way they played as good as the flat faced joints, I think I would build most cues with piloted joints. An example of piloted joints being easier to make is that you do not have to chuck up on the large end of the shaft to face it off. You can chuck up on the ferrule end and put your live center in the end of the piloted shaft and face it off. This eliminates and collet closing on the finish or and steady rest having to ride up on the finish. Getting a tight fit on the pilot takes some extra care, but so does making a shaft and butt fit nicely with a flat faced joint. But like I said I like the feel of the flat faced joint with the 5/16" pin and will probably stick with it.
 
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Tony Zinzola said:
The reason I use a piloted joint is because before I started building cues, the only cue I would play with was a Lambros. I tried several cues and that was the best hitting cue I could find.

When I started building my own cues, I tried a few different joint types and that was the one I liked the best. Maybe it was all mental, I don't know. I do know that the cue I recently built for Charlie Edwards had a flat faced Ivory Joint and the hit was fantastic, so I really don't think it makes all that much difference.

I've also had several repeat customers who weren't sure on their first cue, but went with the piloted joint. When they ordered the second cue, they requested it. Since people seem to like it, I see no reason to change.

As far as the strength of the piloted portion. If you're not abusing the cue, I don't see why it won't last forever. If you feel the need to throw your cue or smack it against the table, I wouldn't want to build you one anyway.
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Lambros' A-joint is also concave/convex config fwiw. :)
 
JoeyInCali said:
Lambros' A-joint is also concave/convex config fwiw. :)
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I have one that my brother and I cut up to look at technique, it's quite interesting some of the things Mike does, and doesn't do to his cues.

Another reason Mikes my favorite cue maker.
 
RFisher said:
HEY PICTURE THIEF, DID YOU ASK PERMISSION? WERE'S MY ROYALTIES???????:p
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LOL! sorry. I didn't mention your name, in case someone had something stupid to say. It happens in these kind of question threads, and I wanted to spare you and all that opinion.

Personally I find your work to be masterful and well executed. And I love G-10 (esp. the black 3/8x10) pins.

One day I'll make my own cue, and if that goes well, perhaps for others too. I really value your guys' feedback and needs as a guideline and climate for this sort of thing. I'm really learning the depths of this addiction.

Old fashioned construction meeting new wave material. I'm all about it.
 
That's it.
My next sneaky is gonna have a piloted ball screw joint.
I'll use a bocote insert though.
 
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