What's with all these pin types for cue joints?

[9ball5032]

Let me tell you something about pins and cuemakers................

They each have their type that they use, and they are probably passionate about using it for some reason(s).

It would be interesting to ask Searing, Barry Szamboti, Laurie Franklin, etc., etc., etc., why they use what they use.

 

[phreaticus]

The entirety of a builder's joint design, including pin type, helps insure that a piece of crap doesn't get screwed onto your cue butt and then people take that as "your" hit. When you play with a cue you are playing with the sum total of the cue, not just some components. I found a pretty radical difference in feel of my cue just taking the rubber bumper off of it, what I am sure most would consider the least important component of a cue!

The emergence of all of the aftermarket shafts is muddying the waters mightily but you can't hit with a cue builder's butt with an aftermarket spliced or CF shaft and then say you don't like the hit of that builder's cue. In truth, you have never hit with his cue unless you hit with his shaft, both sides of his joint, and his butt as he built it.

A cue builder is usually trying to build the best cue he knows how to build, that includes the joint and pin. Some attempt to make one part of the design do multiple things, others have multiple elements each achieving one needed goal. When you put a shaft on a butt that might happen to screw on you may be losing other design features.

At risk of stirring up those dedicated to flat faced joints, flat faced joints are an inherently flawed design. The reason is simple. Screw threads are not suitable to locate anything precisely. Take the head on an automobile engine as an example. It may have over a dozen heavy bolts holding it on the engine block. If the bolts were adequate to locate the head precisely it would not have the two dowels or hollow pins that precisely locate the head on the block! Now, those with flat faced joints on a cue with one threaded connection think it is adequate to locate the joint? Depends on a person's idea of adequate I reckon.

A pin pulls the butt and shaft together. We can add a pilot to the pin, we can use modified or acme threads to make the pin locate the joint facings also. However, this isn't the role of plain threads!

There are many many ways to achieve a cue builder's goals. Every cue builder has given considerable thought to how they want to achieve those goals in their personal design. One of the major things distinguishing a cue builder from a cue maker in my opinion.

Everything from the tip to the bumper or lack of one affects the hit of a cue to a larger or lesser degree. Unless everything else is exactly the same except for one change such as the joint, they can be impossible to distinguish. A cue isn't one component but the sum of all components and all features of a design.

When all cues are finished, there is little difference in the surface fit and finish of well built cues. That doesn't mean they are all the same. The differences that don't show on the surface are one reason that the cue builder doesn't want any shaft to fit on his butt. He carefully selected a few pieces of shaft wood to go with the rest of that cue, no reason to make that easy to undo!

Hu

After a return to pool after 25 yr layoff, I’ve been investigating exactly this issue for a while now.

i agree with most of what Hu wrote above, but not all. I grew up on Joss SP cues and developed a superstition about Dan Jane’s piloted 5/16-14 joints, phenolic collars with linen fiber shaft inserts - for me those and very basic wood-to-wood pure sneakies -were always a distinctly intimate, snugger fit that provided a stiff hit yet plenty of touch. Never found any cue with a metal collar, brass inserts, or any metal-to-metal joint architecture to be anywhere close - all always felt “tingy & zingy” to me... (and ugly to my eye).

Then I tried a Tascarella with their classic “compression fit” version of the piloted 5/16-14 & ivory collar. Wow. Similar to my Joss cues, but way better. Major upgrade (and non trivial bump in $$ )

Then I got my hands on a used Eddie Cohen with 3/8-10 modified joint with wood-wood flat-face & Juma collar. Wow & wow again. Very similar hit/feel to the Tascarella but slightly better & less proprietary (3/8-10/modified butts/shafts can go on many more vendor combinations)

Since old dogs CAN learn new tricks, I’ve gone totally new school & now prefer a custom CF shaft - in 3/8-10 modified. In general my original & 3rd party after market shafts in 3/8-10 modified - thread on to my EC & Dzuricky butts in an orgasmically satisfying super snug fit - there is zero play even when the shaft is first connected by a only few turns.

I should note these cue butts & shafts are all very close in weight, dimensions, balance and same brand tip.

I find other big pins play very nice also; I’ve tried std 3/8-10 (not modified flat pin) & radial. I’m curious about other big pins such as 3/8-8 & 3/8-11 etc, but I’ve found my personal nirvana and ended the explorations...

Obviously all very subjective, but I’m definitely a big pin convert, and an intimate, piloted joint, with no metal to metal - is absolutely a super critical element of a cue’s hit/feel. There are different ways to get there, but in my view flat face 3/8-10 modified pin architecture - is the best approach & seems to be the most “inter operable” among makers.

I’m an over analytical engineer and could go into some convoluted rationale on WHY I think the above is true, but in summary its all about resonant harmonics as energy waves transmit through the media. However, all that horse shit on “feel of the hit” is POST cue ball contact, so its all really just a benefit in the psychological realm, if we’re all totally honest about it. But pool is a hugely mental game, and it seems most serious players are pretty nutty, so who can really say

I wish I had this info when I first started playing again last year... hope this little diatribe is useful to someone...

Ironically I love to try to take the bar down playing off the rack, and believe real pool players can play with any old house cue, but hey we all have our secret fetishes & preferences...

Cheers

P

 

[9andout]

Not random.

There are federal regs that address this.
Although the wording is "exhaust cannot exit immediately below the fuel fill pipe or tank", auto designers would rather not get into a gray area, easier just to keep the two on opposite sides when possible.

Cannot venture to guess about the Koreans.

Makes sense. Especially with dopes that have to leave their cars running while fueling!
Don't need to be dripping / spilling on a hot pipe even if it is off.

 

[fastone371]

Not random.

There are federal regs that address this.
Although the wording is "exhaust cannot exit immediately below the fuel fill pipe or tank", auto designers would rather not get into a gray area, easier just to keep the two on opposite sides when possible.

Cannot venture to guess about the Koreans.

Im sure everything is regulated on vehicles sold in the USA. Just like the OBDII ports that are "supposed" to be located left of the steering column below the dash as per federal guidelines if they wanted to sell cars in the USA. I recall finding them on passengers side or in the center counsel, sometimes behind a screwed in panel or an ashtray.

 

[ShootingArts]

After a return to pool after 25 yr layoff, I’ve been investigating exactly this issue for a while now.

i agree with most of what Hu wrote above, but not all. I grew up on Joss SP cues and developed a superstition about Dan Jane’s piloted 5/16-14 joints, phenolic collars with linen fiber shaft inserts - for me those and very basic wood-to-wood pure sneakies -were always a distinctly intimate, snugger fit that provided a stiff hit yet plenty of touch. Never found any cue with a metal collar, brass inserts, or any metal-to-metal joint architecture to be anywhere close - all always felt “tingy & zingy” to me... (and ugly to my eye).

Then I tried a Tascarella with their classic “compression fit” version of the piloted 5/16-14 & ivory collar. Wow. Similar to my Joss cues, but way better. Major upgrade (and non trivial bump in $$ )

Then I got my hands on a used Eddie Cohen with 3/8-10 modified joint with wood-wood flat-face & Juma collar. Wow & wow again. Very similar hit/feel to the Tascarella but slightly better & less proprietary (3/8-10/modified butts/shafts can go on many more vendor combinations)

Since old dogs CAN learn new tricks, I’ve gone totally new school & now prefer a custom CF shaft - in 3/8-10 modified. In general my original & 3rd party after market shafts in 3/8-10 modified - thread on to my EC & Dzuricky butts in an orgasmically satisfying super snug fit - there is zero play even when the shaft is first connected by a only few turns.

I should note these cue butts & shafts are all very close in weight, dimensions, balance and same brand tip.

I find other big pins play very nice also; I’ve tried std 3/8-10 (not modified flat pin) & radial. I’m curious about other big pins such as 3/8-8 & 3/8-11 etc, but I’ve found my personal nirvana and ended the explorations...

Obviously all very subjective, but I’m definitely a big pin convert, and an intimate, piloted joint, with no metal to metal - is absolutely a super critical element of a cue’s hit/feel. There are different ways to get there, but in my view flat face 3/8-10 modified pin architecture - is the best approach & seems to be the most “inter operable” among makers.

I’m an over analytical engineer and could go into some convoluted rationale on WHY I think the above is true, but in summary its all about resonant harmonics as energy waves transmit through the media. However, all that horse shit on “feel of the hit” is POST cue ball contact, so its all really just a benefit in the psychological realm, if we’re all totally honest about it. But pool is a hugely mental game, and it seems most serious players are pretty nutty, so who can really say

I wish I had this info when I first started playing again last year... hope this little diatribe is useful to someone...

Ironically I love to try to take the bar down playing off the rack, and believe real pool players can play with any old house cue, but hey we all have our secret fetishes & preferences...

Cheers

P

Just idle curiosity, where do you think we disagree? I didn't see a thing in your post that I disagreed with. The modified thread designs I have seen are an attempt to make the threads locate the two halves of the cue, some more successful than others. I left enough of the G-10 pins I favored sticking out of the butt that I had an unthreaded section to serve as a pilot. I wanted to turn down the end of the pin and have a similar section in the insert but never got around to it. It didn't seem to add enough to the design to be worth the bother.

I have worked with acme threads and wanted to use them to locate with using a 7/16" pin. Turns out my friend that goes his own way on a lot of things is already using just that pin but won't sell it for others to use! I could buy acme stock from the little yellow hardware store of course but some other dealings with acme threads revealed that I might run into issues with the acme threaded stock. It turns out that tolerances were very sloppy on the ten or twelve foot x 2" acme stock we were using for some short run assemblies. The tolerances let the stock thread into a standard acme nut. unfortunately we were using a plastic flange that was about twice as thick as a standard nut. Every batch of threaded stock we received was a new world. A typical order was dozens of the nominal ten or twelve foot stainless threaded stems that we then cut into one to two foot sections or a bit longer for our application. Fun times when everything was in tolerance and still didn't fit!

I had an issue with my Cynergy shaft which was probably a similar issue. My 3/8"-10 pin stopped over a half inch short of of the faces mating together with the 3/8"-10 joint adapter on the shaft. I suspect because the G-10 pin is cut and the metal pins use rolled threads. I finally cut down the pin, a less than ideal solution! Works fine with the CF shaft, I am not going to be happy when I put my old shaft with brass insert on the butt. The threads are tight enough there is no movement with the joint backed off a turn or two for fear of the Ivorine four and unknown plastic of the CF shaft's joint freezing together. I sometimes forget to tighten the joint back together before play. A few hits remind me to!

Things like a flat faced joint with no way to locate the shaft and butt precisely just seems a bit sloppy to me. It isn't a particular issue obviously. When things can get ugly though is when the female half of some of the big pilot floating pin designs are mated with a flat face. Now the two pieces will screw together just fine but the only contact with the flat face may be a floating pin and a thin collar. The pin is floating for roughly the last inch so that the pilot that is no longer there can locate the two pieces precisely. Now there is a really poor joint and people complain about the hit of a cue built by such and such builder, forgetting they are no longer hitting with what he built!

A unique joint like a unique taper on shafts helps distinguish a builder from the rest. Generally they aren't different just to be different but to accomplish some goals. I'm thinking the acceptance of CF as a shaft material is going to allow some real changes in cue design but just speculation at the moment!

I refused to play tournaments when I gambled nightly. Too much exposure, too little return for time invested. I played off the wall for ten or twelve years. I had a hinged cue at home, I just didn't bring it out to play. I generally played with the crookedest thing off the wall because the tip and shaft area would be in good condition. Index the cue and rock & roll! Today I have a case that totes a few cues and enough stuff in two huge pockets to repair a 747 in flight if I needed to. Sometimes I leave all of that at home and stick a BRAD tool and a little square of Scotchbrite or sandpaper in my pocket sometimes. Somehow I feel much lighter and freer walking into a place with all of my weapons fitting in the watch pocket of my jeans!

Hu

 

[buckshotshoey]

Alot of people seem to prefer the radial. If one pin is so preferred, why is it that cue manufactures haven't all adopted one style of pin at this point, if that style is truly superior? Take Mezz for an example, depending on the cue you buy, they come standard with various pins. Hard to understand at the cost of a pin, that if one were truly superior, why they all wouldn't come standard with that one. Seems to me that they actually don't want you to have just one good shaft, but in fact really would like you to have to buy multiple shafts for the multiple cues that you have.

A lot of people are using cue extensions, either in between the shaft and the butt, or at the end of the butt. Why not make a short extension as sort of a pin adapter? For instance.... a 3/8 by 10 to fit your shaft that screws onto a 5/16 by 14 but? The possibilities are vast.

 

[Black-Balled]

Depends on what side the exhaust exits on, Matey. Except vehicles with dual exhaust, all cars' fuel filler is on the opposite side of the exhaust outlet.

I thought manufacturers who chose the p/s for filler hole did so because it positioned operator out of roadway in the event she ran out of gas and needed to put fuel in on roadside...

 

[phreaticus]

Just idle curiosity, where do you think we disagree? I didn't see a thing in your post that I disagreed with. The modified thread designs I have seen are an attempt to make the threads locate the two halves of the cue, some more successful than others. I left enough of the G-10 pins I favored sticking out of the butt that I had an unthreaded section to serve as a pilot. I wanted to turn down the end of the pin and have a similar section in the insert but never got around to it. It didn't seem to add enough to the design to be worth the bother.

I have worked with acme threads and wanted to use them to locate with using a 7/16" pin. Turns out my friend that goes his own way on a lot of things is already using just that pin but won't sell it for others to use! I could buy acme stock from the little yellow hardware store of course but some other dealings with acme threads revealed that I might run into issues with the acme threaded stock. It turns out that tolerances were very sloppy on the ten or twelve foot x 2" acme stock we were using for some short run assemblies. The tolerances let the stock thread into a standard acme nut. unfortunately we were using a plastic flange that was about twice as thick as a standard nut. Every batch of threaded stock we received was a new world. A typical order was dozens of the nominal ten or twelve foot stainless threaded stems that we then cut into one to two foot sections or a bit longer for our application. Fun times when everything was in tolerance and still didn't fit!

I had an issue with my Cynergy shaft which was probably a similar issue. My 3/8"-10 pin stopped over a half inch short of of the faces mating together with the 3/8"-10 joint adapter on the shaft. I suspect because the G-10 pin is cut and the metal pins use rolled threads. I finally cut down the pin, a less than ideal solution! Works fine with the CF shaft, I am not going to be happy when I put my old shaft with brass insert on the butt. The threads are tight enough there is no movement with the joint backed off a turn or two for fear of the Ivorine four and unknown plastic of the CF shaft's joint freezing together. I sometimes forget to tighten the joint back together before play. A few hits remind me to!

Things like a flat faced joint with no way to locate the shaft and butt precisely just seems a bit sloppy to me. It isn't a particular issue obviously. When things can get ugly though is when the female half of some of the big pilot floating pin designs are mated with a flat face. Now the two pieces will screw together just fine but the only contact with the flat face may be a floating pin and a thin collar. The pin is floating for roughly the last inch so that the pilot that is no longer there can locate the two pieces precisely. Now there is a really poor joint and people complain about the hit of a cue built by such and such builder, forgetting they are no longer hitting with what he built!

A unique joint like a unique taper on shafts helps distinguish a builder from the rest. Generally they aren't different just to be different but to accomplish some goals. I'm thinking the acceptance of CF as a shaft material is going to allow some real changes in cue design but just speculation at the moment!

I refused to play tournaments when I gambled nightly. Too much exposure, too little return for time invested. I played off the wall for ten or twelve years. I had a hinged cue at home, I just didn't bring it out to play. I generally played with the crookedest thing off the wall because the tip and shaft area would be in good condition. Index the cue and rock & roll! Today I have a case that totes a few cues and enough stuff in two huge pockets to repair a 747 in flight if I needed to. Sometimes I leave all of that at home and stick a BRAD tool and a little square of Scotchbrite or sandpaper in my pocket sometimes. Somehow I feel much lighter and freer walking into a place with all of my weapons fitting in the watch pocket of my jeans!

Hu

Hi Hu,

I didn't mean to be contentious in any way. I think we're mostly in completely alignment (pun intended). I'm not as sure about flat faces as you are, simply for the reason that I once had a 5/16-14 Scruggs sneaky, and my ancient (no name) sneaky 5/16-18 and a $60 cheap Action sneaky in 5/16-18 - all in wood-to-wood flat face, all unpiloted - that also play great. It's all so subjective and hard to tell....

I'm pretty technical, but I'm no cue maker and not brave enough to work in my own cues, other than shape tips and adjust weight bolts - so I can't go any deeper with you on the subject. I've learned a bit just by reading your two posts here - thanks!

I've also had some challenges with some 3/8-10 modified. The only CF shaft I really like is the Meucci, but they can't seem to get a 3/8-10 modified correct to save their lives. Had to send 2 of them back because they were actually 3/8-10 standard and didn't fit properly. It seems to not be a true "standard" - but at least somewhat interoperable.

One thing for sure, a quality cue maker definitely inserts their own magic into their joint architecture, and this is definitely a very critical part of the design, for me, joint, balance point and tip - are the most critical features of a cue.

For me this whole subject of basic vs fancy/special cue is one of the many, many parallels with competitive pistol shooting (another old life of mine). I believe all shooters aspiring to high level performance should be able to do 4" groups at 25y rapid fire on a tight timer - with a bone stock Glock. But, there is certainly a place for trigger jobs, custom 1911's and race guns for that extra 5-10% advantage on match day (or hill-hill for a $1000)

Fun discussion, good to know I'm not the only one with such neurotic thoughts about joint stuff...

Sounds like we'd have fun hitting some balls.

Cheers!

P

 

[Straightpool_99]

It's all so that the cuemaker can sell more shafts. There is simply no logical reason why there should be so many 5/16th pins, or even 3/8ths. Once upon a time you could ask for a 3/8*10 shaft and be 99.9% sure it would fit your cue or at least screw onto it. Now there are God knows how many thread pitches/depths and whatever and there is no way to know. I have a cue butt I'm not sure I'm every going to find a shaft for. It's supposed to be 3/8*10, it looks like a standard one, but it doesn't accept any shaft I have. It's not the flat bottom one, either. The cuemaker is out of business, so I'm stuck with the shafts I have.

I like my shafts to stay clean and smooth, I play a lot so I tend to wear them out. I can't really rely on custom makers, have to go production. Otherwise I get cues like the one I have, with a thread pitch or diameter that is very slightly off, just so the cuemaker could potentially get more business. The local cuemaker/repair person has screwed me over one time too many, so I can't get shafts adapted and even if I could, he'd take forever.

It's simply indefensible.

 

[ShootingArts]

Hi Hu,

I didn't mean to be contentious in any way. I think we're mostly in completely alignment (pun intended). I'm not as sure about flat faces as you are, simply for the reason that I once had a 5/16-14 Scruggs sneaky, and my ancient (no name) sneaky 5/16-18 and a $60 cheap Action sneaky in 5/16-18 - all in wood-to-wood flat face, all unpiloted - that also play great. It's all so subjective and hard to tell....

I'm pretty technical, but I'm no cue maker and not brave enough to work in my own cues, other than shape tips and adjust weight bolts - so I can't go any deeper with you on the subject. I've learned a bit just by reading your two posts here - thanks!

I've also had some challenges with some 3/8-10 modified. The only CF shaft I really like is the Meucci, but they can't seem to get a 3/8-10 modified correct to save their lives. Had to send 2 of them back because they were actually 3/8-10 standard and didn't fit properly. It seems to be be a true standard at all, but at least somewhat interoperable.

One thing for sure, a quality cue maker definitely inserts their own magic into their joint architecture, and this is definitely a very critical part of the design, for me, joint, balance point and tip - are the most critical features of a cue.

For me this whole subject of basic vs fancy/special cue is one of the many, many parallels with competitive pistol shooting (another old life of mine). I believe all shooters aspiring to high level performance should be able to do 4" groups at 25y rapid fire on a tight timer - with a bone stock Glock. But, there is certainly a place for trigger jobs, custom 1911's and race guns for that extra 5-10% advantage on match day (or hill-hill for a $1000)

Fun discussion, good to know I'm not the only one with such neurotic thoughts about joint stuff...

Sounds like we'd have fun hitting some balls.

Cheers!

P

I enjoy discussing these things, by no means intend for there to be any contention! I don't have an issue with flat faced joints other than the basic thought the design requires the threaded pin to locate the two pieces. Over a lot of time I would think the joint would wear down. Then if the pin isn't precisely centered ... Doesn't hurt a thing for a joint not to align absolutely perfectly but just the idea bugs me. Yep, I am a little picky. I told my benchrest smith I wasn't, I would settle for perfection!

Seems we have more in common than you suspect, I had my pistol phase too. Being me, I modified one or two then took up putting together 1911's. Most parts are available oversized "gunsmith fit" and I was a dealer for most everybody. Brownies still gives me the gunsmith discount. Anyway, my pistols shot pretty good and my trigger jobs were in great enough demand that I could have pretty much just tuned 1911's had I wanted to do that. Built myself a steel plate gun and had the 1911 trigger adjusted to fifteen ounces for the first five hundred rounds just to prove my trigger jobs safe and reliable. I had to raise trigger pull to two pounds because I used the pistol in some matches that had weak hand stages and my left trigger finger wasn't reliable with that light trigger. I won a few matches and set a few local records in good company, some IPSC Masters and Grandmasters, so I was pretty pleased with my smithing. My mill for the first half-dozen 1911's I put together was a fourteen inch mill bastard file!

Katrina took the steel plate matches and I moved away from the other matches I shot regularly. Shot benchrest awhile, did my own tweaking there for the most part although I had to send out most barrel work until I bought a lathe. After many near misses with named storms one got my shop and the next one got my home! I am on high ground now and doing a little ornamental wood turning when I feel like it, bowls and vessels and such. Still have a cue lathe in storage and a few more lathes but I'm tempted to build a cue on the wood lathe just to prove I can.

Life goes on! You do sound like somebody I would like to break bread with or hit a few balls together sometime. I am about halfway between New Orleans and Jackson MS and could probably be persuaded to make a trip either way once this Covid crapola settles down!

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

A lot of people are using cue extensions, either in between the shaft and the butt, or at the end of the butt. Why not make a short extension as sort of a pin adapter? For instance.... a 3/8 by 10 to fit your shaft that screws onto a 5/16 by 14 but? The possibilities are vast.

This is being done. All custom by request as far as I know. No reason that mid cue extension can't also be an adapter.

Hu

 

[Otterman]

As a cuemaker, I’m using the 3/8-10 modified pin because I prefer the feel of the flat-face joint configuration, but primarily like it for installation considerations. That pin (and also the radial) has a barreled center section that will insert into a properly bored hole very precisely, which pretty much eliminates any issues with pin run-out.

On flat-faced, wood-to-wood joints, the shaft is located on the butt by both the joint pin threads and the adjoining shaft/butt faces. Piloted joints are likely more mechanically sound than wood shaft threads, but I don’t believe it’s significant enough to matter in the context of pool cues. I have a D-17 I bought in 1987 and the original shaft still fits perfectly. Plus, I think many shafts naturally experience fatigue over years of play and should be replaced, anyway.

As a player that has owned cues with just about every joint configuration over 35+ years, I’ve been able to use any of them equally well. Still love the ping of a stainless 5/16-14 piloted Schon as well as the satisfying thud of my radial-pinned Treadway. There’s room for all of them in my cue world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phreaticus]

@ Hu - great discussion, I find many pool players are into some form of shooting. Interesting... now how many pool players are also scuba divers? (My primary life long passion...). Actually me and buddy might be rolling through the SE later this year, so hooking up might be a real option (will need some local steering info )

@ Otterman - great comments & from my layman perspective - totally agreed!

i don’t hang out online much, but this is way more fun than doing my taxes. When I used to hang out in online shooting & tech diving forums years ago before social media totally poisoned the planet - I used to have a rule; one online post for every 25 dives in the real world. Not sure what the equivalent is for pool forums, but I’m pretty sure I’ve used up my quota for 2021. Back to my under water caves, thanks for fun chat.

Peace & love,

p

 

[iusedtoberich]

There should absolutely not be a standard. The cuemaker can do as he wishes for whatever reason he wishes. The customer can buy or not as he wishes. The cue repair man can choose to service a pin or not as he wishes. It’s a free country and all...

 

[ShootingArts]

@ Hu - great discussion, I find many pool players are into some form of shooting. Interesting... now how many pool players are also scuba divers? (My primary life long passion...). Actually me and buddy might be rolling through the SE later this year, so hooking up might be a real option (will need some local steering info )

@ Otterman - great comments & from my layman perspective - totally agreed!

i don’t hang out online much, but this is way more fun than doing my taxes. When I used to hang out in online shooting & tech diving forums years ago before social media totally poisoned the planet - I used to have a rule; one online post for every 25 dives in the real world. Not sure what the equivalent is for pool forums, but I’m pretty sure I’ve used up my quota for 2021. Back to my under water caves, thanks for fun chat.

Peace & love,

p

Sounds great if you make it this way! I do have a steel plate pistol range in the side yard and a steel plate at 200 plus to play with rifles. More precise targets can be set up as inclined. I have an old barbox but we can find better to play on if you find yourself this way.

Stay in touch!

Hu

 

[phreaticus]

Sounds great if you make it this way! I do have a steel plate pistol range in the side yard and a steel plate at 200 plus to play with rifles. More precise targets can be set up as inclined. I have an old barbox but we can find better to play on if you find yourself this way.

Stay in touch!

Hu

Wow! You had me at steel plates... a bar box on site also... sounds like 2-gun nirvana (I like 3-gun, but hate shot guns; like 1-pocket, IMO they are for old fat slow guys that can't really shoot - wait, I'm becoming one of those...) Next you'll tell me there are also free hookers and cocaine. Just kidding! Sounds awesome, will definitely keep this in mind. Thanks! (Will you adopt me?)

 

[Otterman]

Wow! You had me at steel plates... a bar box on site also... sounds like 2-gun nirvana (I like 3-gun, but hate shot guns; like 1-pocket, IMO they are for old fat slow guys that can't really shoot - wait, I'm becoming one of those...) Next you'll tell me there are also free hookers and cocaine. Just kidding! Sounds awesome, will definitely keep this in mind. Thanks! (Will you adopt me?)

My son and I are avid handgun shooters as well. He could handle a full-size 9mm like a pro (and shoot it accurately) by the age of 9. We were gearing up to compete in IPSC and IDPA until he discovered our pool table, and that's held his interest ever since. Don't get to the range that much now between my work, his college and our cue building, but still really enjoy it when we do.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Pin style doesn't matter as long as the lockup is tight however the only joint worth having is wood to wood.
I have spoken.

I agree that wood-wood is the best.

 

[MitchAlsup]

At risk of stirring up those dedicated to flat faced joints, flat faced joints are an inherently flawed design. The reason is simple. Screw threads are not suitable to locate anything precisely. Take the head on an automobile engine as an example. It may have over a dozen heavy bolts holding it on the engine block. If the bolts were adequate to locate the head precisely it would not have the two dowels or hollow pins that precisely locate the head on the block! Now, those with flat faced joints on a cue with one threaded connection think it is adequate to locate the joint? Depends on a person's idea of adequate I reckon.

Exactly, piloted joint is the way to go.

 

[MmmSharp]

Good discussion. No one mentioned patents yet. I know patents also play a role in selection. Hu sort of hinted at this with his friend not sharing his joint. No double meaning intended

I will play with anything really. I try to appreciate the differences between cues and choices the makers make. I do really like my lambros ultimate joint. It is such a solid, comfortable hit with little extra sound. I also like my flat face and my compression. They dont make me shoot better but sometimes i just feel like using something else for variety.

Can i tell the difference ? I think i could by the sound more than the hit. The hit can change so much based on other components i betcthose more in the know than me could get a compression joint to hit similarly to a flatface if they so choose.