What's wrong with APA rules?

Apa

The APA is nothing but a big joke, That's not real pool. More like playing marbles like we did when we where kids. All it does is favor the week players and there are more week players then there are strong players,
So in reality lets say 90% of APA members cant run three balls but there are more of them then seriously strong players. That's how the APA makes money, Not brain surgery here. It's kinda of funny to watch a APA player who cant run a wrack win a game by shitting everything in. And they think there Boss Hog. The APA is full of people who are just looking for a night out, Drink beer bang some balls around. The APA is good for one thing
making the owners rich that's all.
 
krupa said:
The rules aren't hated, the APA in general is. Some players just like to look down their nose at it because it makes them feel better about themselves.
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JT's cuerepair said:
The APA is nothing but a big joke, That's not real pool. More like playing marbles like we did when we where kids. All it does is favor the week players and there are more week players then there are strong players,
So in reality lets say 90% of APA members cant run three balls but there are more of them then seriously strong players. That's how the APA makes money, Not brain surgery here. It's kinda of funny to watch a APA player who cant run a wrack win a game by shitting everything in. And they think there Boss Hog. The APA is full of people who are just looking for a night out, Drink beer bang some balls around. The APA is good for one thing
making the owners rich that's all.
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I rest my case.
 
APA 8-ball rules and leagues are geared towards beginners and intermediates.

I think the majority of complaints stem from lack of competitive outlet for higher skilled players, such as a separate league for 9-ball. In some communities, the APA is the only league in town. So, all the players are packed into one league. In my mind this is situation is similar to the one room school house that was common in 19th century rural America;Think little house on the prairie. In communities that can support more than one league (APA, BCA, ACS, etc), the situation is more normalized like school districts with separate elementary, intermediate, and high schools.

According to the APA website, they have over 270K members playing in their weekly leagues. I don't think there are any perfect rules and handicaps to accommodate everything. I think there is enough parts tolerance that the APA has become the biggest league in the United States, and have thrived for the last 20 years.
 
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Back to my question

So lets get rid of the APA..., and how will we fill the pool halls? Who's going to get that player who cant run three balls to play?

The fact that a player cant run three balls, but can win is what makes the APA a great thing for pool. We need people around the game that want to play, learn to play..., run thre balls, then four, then five, then a rack.

If I give a guy the orange crush and he wins, he has a right to be excited, he got my cash, he won..., so if a APA player has to go to 2 and I have to go to 9 and he wins, let him celebrate, its good for the game, maybe he'll stay around a buy a beer or a round of drinks for friends and make money for the bar.

If people cant win, they wont play, if they dont play, they cant learn to improve and stay with the game.
 
JT's cuerepair said:
The APA is nothing but a big joke, That's not real pool. More like playing marbles like we did when we where kids. All it does is favor the week players and there are more week players then there are strong players,
So in reality lets say 90% of APA members cant run three balls but there are more of them then seriously strong players. That's how the APA makes money, Not brain surgery here. It's kinda of funny to watch a APA player who cant run a wrack win a game by shitting everything in. And they think there Boss Hog. The APA is full of people who are just looking for a night out, Drink beer bang some balls around. The APA is good for one thing
making the owners rich that's all.
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90% of APA members can't run three balls? LOL
Try working on your spelling if you want anyone to take your post seriously.
 
Let's see . . . with APA rules there are never arguments over whether or not a kiss, combo, carom, bank, etc. was called correctly. The only shot that must be called requires that an object not commonly found on a pool table be placed near the intended pocket to clearly desinate the target. I guess if you prefer bar fights over pool match outcomes, the APA rules do suck. :smile:
 
I've played APA for only about three months and so far I don't dislike it. The handicapping and sandbagging don't really bother me. The scoring will change next session to a three-point system (3 points for a shutout, 2 points for a normal win, the losing player gets 1 point for making it to the rubber game). Supposed to mitigate the sandbagging. I think I would like it better if every game was a point and there is a 2 point bonus for winning a match. That way every individual can be scored. But I understand the need to keep the format as more of a team concept.

The thing that I dislike the most - and not every town has this problem - is that all of the teams in my town play in a bar. 3 to 4 tables crammed into a space that really only one or two tables should be. Tables that aren't maintained and treated poorly by drunken idiots. Hole-in-the-wall joints that I wouldn't otherwise be interested in entering.

Having said that, there are a lot more women in this league than I have seen in other leagues. Probably 15% to 20% of the league. That is a good thing, in my opinion.
 
Well the APA is an outlet for amateur pool players. Don't get me wrong there are some awesome players that want to hang out with their friends that play for the fun of it too. It's somewhere that you can go play with your friends have a drink and shoot pool. It's probably one of the only leagues where your wife or girl friend or whom ever can also join you and have fun playing and also win.

The handicaps are set up so everyone has a chance to win, and people don't just stack teams so they can get that free trip or win every session.

Everyone always feels the league they're playing in is the best one, or if they don't play in a league they think league players suck and so on.... It's just the nature of life.

When I started in the APA it was for fun and I sucked, I was a skill lvl 2 and had a 9 on my team. After watching him play I got more interested in the game I started practicing and asking for his help. Next thing you know I'm running a few balls here and there and having fun playing. A few MVP sessions and now running racks... The APA is a perfect place for beginners and seasoned players that want to just relax and have fun while they play.
 
JT's cuerepair said:
LOL guess your an APA member, Sorry to hear that.
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LOL. Sorry spelling is such an issue for you. Maybe you should have spent less time playing marbles when you were younger.........
(Just so you know, it is "weak" not week and "rack" not wrack. There were others but that is just sad)

I am not an APA member right now but do believe any league is good for pool. Anything that gets people to enjoy the game is good. It's sad that a small percentage of players who think they are better than everyone else try to drive leagues into the ground. Most pool halls would be out of business if it weren't for leagues. If you think they are able to survive on table time alone you are sadly mistaken.
 
IMHO there's two big things to consider when talking about the APA. First and foremost it's setup for lower skill level players to experience winning early due to the handicap system. Second, it's setup so that as the members of a team improve and their skill levels increase they are forced to expand the league and form new teams with new lower skill level players.

Personally, I have no problem with the first part. Someone who's learning the game should be able to experience a win here and there. If they lose every week then why would they keep coming back? From what I've seen the players that b*tch about their skill level going up are usually short sighted and probably aren't really interested in actually improving their game anyway. On the other side of that coin, those that b*tch about peoples skill levels not being high enough are usually jaded in some way because it affected them or their team in a match somehow. If someone beat you by winning 2 games and you needed 5 then just keep it in perspective. The likely hood is you probably didn't play as well as you could or should have. Are you expecting them to just give you the win because you've been playing longer. Most people just don't like to admit that they should have played better. It's almost always blown out of proportion, but I have seen a few cases where cheaters just couldn't help themselves. The second part of the league design is what I don't like. I agree that expanding the local leagues is good and healthy for the game if we ever expect to bring pool back into the national spotlight somehow, but I don't like the fact that I get the impression that it's more about the $$ for the APA. When people play based on the fact that they're playing with friends and that's half the reason they're there in the first place then when the team improves and can't stay together because of their handicaps the league will lose those players.

All that said, I make no excuses for a lot of typical APA members behavior because I find it appalling at times too. I think a lot of it is these guys don't have any perspective and don't know what real pool is and assume that since they come from a semi-formal league (in structure only) that the whole world plays the way they do. The fact is they couldn't be more wrong, but there's no convincing most of them of this. I can't count the number of times I've been at pool rooms outside my area where I've heard an APA member griping about how "that's not the rule" or "that's not how you play" when playing in non-APA sactioned games. I think I got lucky with the players in my area b/c almost all of them are very respectful to everybody and they realize that the APA is what it is don't fool themselves into believing otherwise. Most of them are familiar with the higher level non-APA players in our area and give them their deserved respect when interacting with them. Even when they're dealing with other league members I can't recall an instance where somebody did something like slopping in a ball or something and didn't apologize for it. The APA is definitely the only game in town for me and until something better comes along I'm content with that. Like I said, I think I got lucky with the people who participate in the APA in my area. Regional events though...now that's a different story. Definitely met some really...um..."interesting" people who I hope I don't have to share a pool room with again. lol
 
Upper level player

An upper level league player has a huge
opportunity when playing a lower lever
player.

An upper level player can encourage a
lower level player by demonstrating how
to win, how to lose and how to play
the game.

Or the upper level player can be jerk and
discourage everyone around them.
 
The rules must be working OK... not great, but OK.

Last I heard, 250,000+ people play in the APA on a weekly basis.

That's a lot of people playing with house cues? or, do they buy a cue and then a case to put it in, and their own chalk and 'pocket' marker.

Lots of pool products being sold to APA members and with at least a 10% mark down.

These APA members must really like to self-inflect pain every week.

This many players must be having a good time, most of the time.
 
APA rules are just one of the things people cite when they bash the APA.

Bashing the APA is fashionable, in some circles. It touts itself as an amateur-friendly league.
Some guys are so insecure about being perceived as "good" and "a real player"
that they bash everything associated with amateurs.
That includes leagues, inexpensive cues, handicapping, 8 ball, and so on.

As far as specific rules...
It's not accidental that APA rules favor luck or sometimes punishes the better player.
Part of their mission is to give amateurs a chance against better players.

Slop in 8 ball: since amateurs miss more, and hit harder,
they get far more benefit from slop than stronger players.

No choice of group: for those capable of running out, this can occasionally turn an easy
runout into a nightmare rack because they're forced to shoot the worse suit.
For those that cannot run out, choice of group isn't as relevant.

Mark pocket: just to avoid arguments. A lot of rules are designed to make the ref
or TD's life easier and this is one of them.

Point-based 9 ball: If 2 players cannot run out, 9 ball is a dumb game.
It's virtually a coin flip who sinks the 9. Many racks will be won from the chair.
Points ensure you get credit where it's due, nobody should win a short race
by simply cherrypicking a rattled 8 or 9.

No push out: I hate this one, but see the logic.
A strong player who keeps his cue ball firmly under control only has one situation
where he might reasonably give up a lot of points: he's hooked after the break and kicks
and gives up ball in hand to the weaker player. If he can push, then he can basically
control the match from start to finish. This adds luck to every break and more luck
generally favors the weaker player.

No jumps: an amateur is less likely to be willing to invest in a jump cue, they don't want
to have to basically 'pay for a shot'. So this ensures that nobody needs
to buy special equipment.
 
King T said:
If there was no APA most of the pool halls would be empty!! I dont play APA, but I know that the nights that APA players are in the pool halls that I go to, the pool hall is full and making money.

Pool players, non-league, cant keep the doors open at any pool hall worth going to. If you get rid of the APA what would your pool hall look like...,

it would be closed. So if you dont like the APA dont play in it, but dont act like its not a good resource for bringing new players into the game.

If we left it up to the gamblers to bring players in, the game would be dead, if we left it up to the pool halls, drunks and kids would be all thats left.

APA, BCA and anything else is what we got, play or dont, but we need all the action we can get.
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The APA is geared toward beginners, it even says that in the ads. No push out in nine ball? Because it gives the higher ranked opponent an advantage. No jump cue? Same answer. A little silly? Perhaps, but it does pack the pool halls and it does expand the interest in the game.
 
CreeDo hit all the high points in his usual, eloquent manner. If anyone cannot grasp it after that explanation, they are simply using APA as an excuse to feel superior.

As for the "slop" issue.... (Beyond the amusing fact that all these "better" players that love to bash APA, all the while clinging to Texas Express as being superior to the way APA plays 9-ball....consistently ironic and always amusing) anyone SL5 or higher will rarely slop anything in.

Does it happen, sure, once in a while, usually not even once a match. If it does happen, the shooter almost always chuckles and apologizes, at least in my part of the world. Probably applies to half the SL4's, as well. Bottom line is that it isn't as big a deal as folks like to make it out to be. Truly a non issue.
 
The apa is a bar league. Most people who are members go out each week for a night out with friends. No need to bash it. There are plenty of other leagues out there to play in with different rules and handicaps. If you dont like it then go somewhere else.

The sad part is people still sandbag and cheat. That's what truly takes the fun out of something that is meant to be fun.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
 
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