When a cue plays too good............

ChicagoRJ said:
Either way, either it's a gift or it's developed. But not everyone can develop it. Just not possible. So, what should those folks do that never see the line, ever ?

Should they quit ? And if you want to call it crutches, that is fine. But nobody is complaining that is using the crutches. Shouldn't they be the ones pissed about getting "robbed" by all the devilish hucksters with aiming systems?

If I can teach a 50 year old woman with a decade of pool playing experience in 30 minutes how to finally pot balls. It appears that she was never gonna see the line the way she was going.

Maybe she does now, because by making balls more consistently now, she might actually develop a "sense" or see the "line" that was not there before. How is that a bad thing?
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If you're going to use a crutch, whether ghost ball or one of the more esoteric ones, you're going to have to do a lot of visualization to deploy them. Why not concentrate on the line rather than all the rest?

And yes, of course there are people like the woman you used as an example who have played for many years. But years playing is not a valid criteria in and of itself. I think you also have to measure what a player's aspirations are and whether they're putting in the road work to achieve them. You taught the woman how to make balls with more success than she was previously enjoying but equally that's just relative and I doubt she's much of a threat to a serious player. Or are you saying that now she's the next Jeanette Lee?

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
If you're going to use a crutch, whether ghost ball or one of the more esoteric ones, you're going to have to do a lot of visualization to deploy them. Why not concentrate on the line rather than all the rest?

And yes, of course there are people like the woman you used as an example who have played for many years. But years playing is not a valid criteria in and of itself. I think you also have to measure what a player's aspirations are and whether they're putting in the road work to achieve them. You taught the woman how to make balls with more success than she was previously enjoying but equally that's just relative and I doubt she's much of a threat to a serious player. Or are you saying that now she's the next Jeanette Lee?

Lou Figueroa
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Well, not many folks are a threat to turn pro anytime soon, and that includes you and me.
And you don't know what the future holds for this woman, but she will be a threat to apa 4's now, I can tell you that, she will win more games, that I can guarantee, so how is that bad ?

i mean, you have been playing a long time and you are still not a threAt to a serious player, so what?

You did not quit. You are a good player and obviously have some pool knowledge, but if your way is the only way, how come you are not even close to climbing the mountain ?

There has to be more than one way to skin a cat and there must more than one way to teach folks, because we all don't learn the same way.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Well, not many folks are a threat to turn pro anytime soon, and that includes you and me.
And you don't know what the future holds for this woman, but she will be a threat to apa 4's now, I can tell you that, she will win more games, that I can guarantee, so how is that bad ?

i mean, you have been playing a long time and you are still not a threAt to a serious player, so what?

You did not quit. You are a good player and obviously have some pool knowledge, but if your way is the only way, how come you are not even close to climbing the mountain ?

There has to be more than one way to skin a cat and there must more than one way to teach folks, because we all don't learn the same way.
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Because, it was never my aspiration to be a pro. But, on the other hand I have beaten a number of pros in tournament play and taken many more to the hill. So the "threat" part, I don't know, except that that's not too bad for a guy who only dinks them around a few hours a week and once laid off the game for 10 years.

And like I said, we're in harmony about the woman in your example and how you helped her.

Lou Figueroa
 
it's better to be a "master of one," than a "jack of all" (shots)

Some players pursue "mastering" all the shots required in pool and let the situation dictate what shot to use. If it's easiest to use "low/left," with a soft stroke, they do it, if it's easiest to use "high/right" they do it and find themselves hitting different spins and speeds on virtually every shot.

This can work, but it's subconsciously exhausting (from calculating the different speeds, spins, deflection/swerve rates, etc).

For years this was accepted as "the way to play," however, this approach was flawed so subtly it was almost impossible to detect. Players will follow this way of thinking because it "makes sense," however, the "Road Players" knew there was another way to play.....a way that won the cash, no matter what type of equipment, cloth or humidity.

There are two basic philosophies in pocket billiards - one is to "use inside or outside based on the situation," and the other is to make the situation accommodate your best shot (as I show in my TOI video)....in my case it's TOI, although many players favor the TOO (we rarely use "center" except for straight in and "slow rolled" shots).
I would suggest, when trying to improve your overall game that you develop a "master shot" - it's better to be a "master of one," than a "jack of all" (shots).

Once you "master" one shot (TOI or TOO) it opens up a new dimension of control - then you can base your shots relative to the "master shot," creating zones, and also increase your margin of error regarding ball pocketing and position play.
Professional Golfers achieve this with Fade and Draw, Tennis Players do it (with topspin, and slice), and Baseball Pitchers have a "master pitch (or go to pitch) they use in critical situations.....'The Games are the Teacher' - www.cjwiley.com

Badbeat13 said:
I appreciate the input CJ, you can't get to your level
and not know what you're talking about.

The center pocket aspect is true. I play on a tight Diamond
and you better favor the inside of the pocket, because if you
brush the rail with a little speed on the object ball it will hang.
The rail shots or close to the rail shots have to be handled
differently than something closer to the center of the table
where you have the entire pocket to work with.

I have always favored a little outside over a little inside, but
I do use either based on the situation.
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lfigueroa said:
Because, it was never my aspiration to be a pro. But, on the other hand I have beaten a number of pros in tournament play and taken many more to the hill. So the "threat" part, I don't know, except that that's not too bad for a guy who only dinks them around a few hours a week and once laid off the game for 10 years.

And like I said, we're in harmony about the woman in your example and how you helped her.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

And you understand that 99.9 % of the folks that use or buy some type of aiming system don't aspire to be pros either, right ?
 
CJ Wiley said:
...This can work, but it's subconsciously exhausting<--??????-take some drugs :o (from calculating the different speeds, spins, deflection/swerve rates, etc)......

For years this was accepted as "the way to play," however, this approach was flawed so subtly it was almost impossible to detect. Players will follow this way of thinking because it "makes sense," however, the "Road Players" knew there was another way to play.....

There are two basic philosophies in pocket billiards - one is to "use inside or outside based on the situation," and the other is to make the situation accommodate your best shot (as I show in my TOI video)....

in my case it's TOI, although many players favor the TOO (we rarely use "center" except for straight in and "slow rolled" shots).

I would suggest, when trying to improve your overall game that you develop a "master shot" - it's better to be a "master of one," than a "jack of all" (shots).....Professional Golfers achieve this with Fade and Draw, Tennis Players do it (with topspin, and slice), and Baseball Pitchers have a "master pitch (or go to pitch) they use in critical situations [B/].....'The Games are the Teacher' <--?????????????
Click to expand...


Mr. CJ, sir...I know YOU know how to play, but I cant believe you have a prayer of imparting your knowledge to ANYONE else !.. Your lengthy posts on this subject, are so convoluted, and confusing, I always find the need for serious editing...You spend the first half of your post, (emboldened) telling about the need for conformity, in playing the game. Then, you always inject your "Road Player" theory, every stinkin' time. Is that to make good player's who are NOT "Roadies" feel somehow 'inadequate' and incapable of understanding your "higher level" of teaching ?

Then you finish off your post, with the astonishing [sic] insight, that pro's in ALL other games, (I assume you are including pool) must learn to control EVERY single facet of their game, or they will never excel !!!!!... I'm sorry, but I also 'know how to play'...I am just trying to visualize how, if I was a "newbie" that your jumping all over the place, could possibly benefit me !..

Your catch phrase "The Game is the Teacher", while very catchy, (and WAY overused) does NOT mean a damn thing !..ANY individual, must rely on their OWN mental capacity to observe, and retain what they are learning...Sorry Mr.Wiley, but this will always be the "REAL TEACHER !"

SJD---I've been wanting to point out this, "fly in your ointment" (or pink hat) for quite some time now !...I am sure you will see my position, and immediately take steps to correct this obvious oversight ! Thank You, and Merry Christmas ! :p
 
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lfigueroa said:
duh. But it's not a black/white, pro/not a pro situation either.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...


So, when I say that your method has not made you a pro, you tell me you don't aspire to be a pro. So, I respond back, that folks using an aiming method don't either, suddenly it's duh, it's not a black/white situation?

It's a whatever works for you situation actually. some folks see the line, some don't. Some see the edges on object balls better....
 
ChicagoRJ said:
So, when I say that your method has not made you a pro, you tell me you don't aspire to be a pro. So, I respond back, that folks using an aiming method don't either, suddenly it's duh, it's not a black/white situation?

It's a whatever works for you situation actually. some folks see the line, some don't. Some see the edges on object balls better....
Click to expand...


I have no idea what you're arguing about at this point. For like the third time: we are in agreement on your approach teaching the APA4 killer.

Lou Figueroa
 
I think JoeyA is right about you. You seem to be a very lonely

"Dick, I think JoeyA is right about you. You seem to be a very lonely, old man." :)

SJDinPHX said:
Mr. CJ, sir...I know YOU know how to play, but I cant believe you have a prayer of imparting your knowledge to ANYONE else !.. Your lengthy posts on this subject, are so convoluted, and confusing, I always find the need for serious editing...You spend the first half of your post, (emboldened) telling about the need for conformity, in playing the game. Then, you always inject your "Road Player" theory, every stinkin' time. Is that to make good player's who are NOT "Roadies" feel somehow 'inadequate' and incapable of understanding your "higher level" of teaching ?

Then you finish off your post, with the astonishing [sic] insight, that pro's in ALL other games, (I assume you are including pool) must learn to control EVERY single facet of their game, or they will never excel !!!!!... I'm sorry, but I also 'know how to play'...I am just trying to visualize how, if I was a "newbie" that your jumping all over the place, could possibly benefit me !..

Your catch phrase "The Game is the Teacher", while very catchy, (and WAY overused) does NOT mean a damn thing !..ANY individual, must rely on their OWN mental capacity to observe, and retain what they are learning...Sorry Mr.Wiley, but this will always be the "REAL TEACHER !"

SJD---I've been wanting to point out this, "fly in your ointment" (or pink hat) for quite some time now !...I am sure you will see my position, and immediately take steps to correct this obvious oversight ! Thank You, and Merry Christmas ! :p
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
"Dick, I think JoeyA is right about you. You seem to be a very lonely, old man." :)
Click to expand...

"CJ, I think ONB is right about you...(and your 'non answers').. You are a very strange young man"..
..Why do you bother quoting anyone, if your not going to answer any of their questions ? :o

PS..Don't you ever get tired of being wrong ?...I hope when your my age, you will need a bodyguard
to protect you, from your over eager fans fighting over you !...(I had to call
on him again today !) :eek:

PPS..Bottom picture is my good buddy Gwyn Staton..Weenie Beanie's daughter ! (Alfie Taylor calls her Gwynnie Beanie..LOL)

000_0005.jpg
027.jpg
 
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CJ Wiley said:
I obviously don't know who you are, however, I do know Joey and he's a pretty good judge of human nature and player characteristics.
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Oh I like JoeyA all right, ...But I'm not too sure about his 'judgement' !.. I watched all his "infomercials" on new 'self help' pool aids, he swore by !...He's even MORE confusing than you are ! :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

PS..You probably missed this post, slow down now, Here...let me help you out !

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5011023&postcount=92
 
he continues to mumble bitterness and negativity - Dick calls it "Self Talk".

We try, Joey, to offer hope for him and he continues to lock himself in his own, imaginary world..... destined to haunt the forum from his basement aka "pool purgatory".
vvZfm.gif


I can hear him now "it's no use, you're no good, give up, it'll never work, turn back, it's no use, pool players can't do anything right," - the ghost of Dick, typing furiously (and continually) his deplorable bitterness and negativity for all of eternity or as Dick calls it "Self Talk".




JoeyA said:
Ol Dick can't help himself. He's just a lonely old fellow trying to get some attention. Unfortunately, I can only help him indirectly.

As to Lou, well, he has me on ignore. :lmao:

JoeyA
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CJ Wiley said:
I obviously don't know who you are, however, I do know Joey and he's a pretty good judge of human nature and player characteristics. <--He sure does know his 'TOI', and 'multi-deflection shafts' :o
Click to expand...

By the way, you seem a little extra 'hyper' today..Do you mind if I give you a new nickname,...How about "Buttermilk Wylie" ? (sure beats Wylie Coyote) :D :D :D

I am taking wagers no one can watch this video for 1 minute, without cracking up..(I be da poor old black and white goat...Baa, baa, baa !) :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-M9rxgo33Y
 
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lfigueroa said:
I have no idea what you're arguing about at this point. For like the third time: we are in agreement on your approach teaching the APA4 killer.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Great, about as close as we will ever get to old Lou saying something positive about an aiming system. Glad to be of service :grin-square:
 
Badbeat13 said:
Pool is just crazy sometimes though. Play the best pool
of your life one minute, can't make a ball the next...
Click to expand...

Not meaning to be critical of anybody, but I think this could be an indication of fundamentals that need some work. There shouldn't be a huge swing in your ability to play from one session to the next. I know you are not saying you literally can't make a ball, but it still sounds like too big a swing in your game. While I have some sessions that are better than others, it's usually explainable (just too worn out to play, balls are dirty and not opening up, not really "into" it, etc.) If I don't play up to my normal ability, I pretty much know why.
 
Dan White said:
Not meaning to be critical of anybody, but I think this could be an indication of fundamentals that need some work. There shouldn't be a huge swing in your ability to play from one session to the next. I know you are not saying you literally can't make a ball, but it still sounds like too big a swing in your game. While I have some sessions that are better than others, it's usually explainable (just too worn out to play, balls are dirty and not opening up, not really "into" it, etc.) If I don't play up to my normal ability, I pretty much know why.
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Just a figure of speech. No huge swings in my game, pretty
consistent the majority of the time outside of a bad set here
or there. I can quit playing for several months in a row and
still run racks right out of the gate. Quite the contrary, I have
solid, reliable fundamentals that date back to the mid eighties.
However, if my game is a little off, fundamentals and basics
are the first thing I check to make sure that's not what's causing
the errant shots. Raising up on a shot is the 1st thing I look at,
because I have been known to do that and not realize that I'm
doing it.

That being said, I'm not a champion, they're on the next level.
I work 50 to 70 hours a week, so I can forget about getting to
that highest level of consistency. I play about 5 to 10 hours a
week for the most part, the bad thing is that it's almost always
by myself.
 
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