Ol Dick can't help himself. He's just a lonely old fellow trying to get some attention. Unfortunately, I can only help him indirectly.
As to Lou, well, he has me on ignore. :lmao:
JoeyA
When a cue plays too good............
- Thread starter JoeyA
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Ol Dick can't help himself. He's just a lonely old fellow trying to get some attention. Unfortunately, I can only help him indirectly.
As to Lou, well, he has me on ignore. :lmao:
JoeyA
While the thread did spin off In an odd direction, this is one of the best explanations of using english Ive seen in a while. Good job.
Joey, "Ol Dick" is through trying to educate you !..Fortunately, I have been there, and done that poolwise,
and I never needed ANY help from you, or your ilk !...The only difference between you and Barton,
is, you commentate a little better than him !..You are both still looking for that magic bullet, but, sadly
you are destined to be stuck in pool mediocrity for the rest of your lives..It don't make you a bad guy, it
just makes you an A.S.S
...You guys will figure it all out someday..(maybe) 
Ol' Dick--Old,..but not lonely..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
Ol Dick can't help himself. He's just a lonely old fellow trying to get some attention. Unfortunately, I can only help him indirectly.
As to Lou, well, he has me on ignore.
JoeyA
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
Ol Dick can't help himself. He's just a lonely old fellow trying to get some attention. Unfortunately, I can only help him indirectly.
As to Lou, well, he has me on ignore.
JoeyA
Joey, "Ol Dick" is through trying to educate you !..Fortunately, I have been there, and done that poolwise,
and I never needed ANY help from you, or your ilk !...The only difference between you and Barton,
is, you commentate a little better than him !..You are both still looking for that magic bullet, but, sadly
you are destined to be stuck in pool mediocrity for the rest of your lives..It don't make you a bad guy, it
just makes you an A.S.S
Ol' Dick--Old,..but not lonely..
It amazes me that someone who has been on the internet for as long as Joey, still hasn't figured out that when someone quotes a guy you have on Ignore, you see their post. Nothing you can do about it. Now that's something to laugh your ass off about ;-)
Lou Figueroa
I've never used a low deflection shaft, but have tried the FHE and BHE methods with a little success. But this only occurs if I don't get down on the right line, and I'll sometimes be too hasty or lazy and make the correction with the cue only, instead of standing up and repositioning.
You can actually use parallel for hard shots as well as soft shots using a traditional shaft. Speed is key, as you mentioned, but there is what I believe used to be called "perfect spin" or similar and it refers to a ball rotating on axis following a straight line. I use contact point aiming and if I have to account for throw, it changes the contact point but the shot line (and my stroke) always remain parallel.
Because of this thread and others, I'm actually interested in looking into LD because it seems they would compliment the way I play.
Lou, In case you haven't noticed, Joey does not catch onto ANYTHING too fast !...I would trade my pension, for all he has spent on books, DVD's, stroke trainers, new style tips, etc..!..Now it appears he is going to go through them all over again, because he just discovered, he may have been using the wrong 'deflection' shaft..Gotta give him credit, he will leave no stone unturned ! At least he has cut down on his endless "infomercials", every time some exciting [sic] new aid comes out !
PS..By the way, what the hell does "FHE" stand for ?...I just noticed that new acronym in this thread..I am so antiquated ! (never mind, I really don't care)
Looking forward to Christmas dinner. Hope everyone has a great one
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To get over the to the next level it will take some experimentation and willingness
You sound like you have a great working knowledge of the game and I'd guess you're an advanced player.
To get over the to the next level it will take some experimentation and willingness to change (or slightly alter) present beliefs. Aiming for the center of the pocket my be fine and dandy on straight in shots, however, when there's angle and distance it's advisable to favor the inside of the pocket.
At this point there's a personal choice to "throw" the object ball in with TOO (touch of outside spin) or TOI (touch of inside for deflection). I like you're habit of using the center as you relationship point to the cue ball, my technique is the same, however I cue the ball slightly to the inside of center to create the ability to use the pocket as a zone).
If these suggestions don't appeal to you please feel free to "put the info.on a shelf," for future reference.
You sound like you have a great working knowledge of the game and I'd guess you're an advanced player.
To get over the to the next level it will take some experimentation and willingness to change (or slightly alter) present beliefs. Aiming for the center of the pocket my be fine and dandy on straight in shots, however, when there's angle and distance it's advisable to favor the inside of the pocket.
At this point there's a personal choice to "throw" the object ball in with TOO (touch of outside spin) or TOI (touch of inside for deflection). I like you're habit of using the center as you relationship point to the cue ball, my technique is the same, however I cue the ball slightly to the inside of center to create the ability to use the pocket as a zone).
If these suggestions don't appeal to you please feel free to "put the info.on a shelf," for future reference.
low deflection long ago
Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth I played with house cues. Had one or two with hinges but they never left the house. A friend with a bar and his pal that worked with the local cue and table guy were playing with twelve ounce snooker cues with milkduds, sometime in the mid to late eighties best I recall. I got one too, I could stash the house cue behind the bar.
The shaft was either nine or eleven millimeter, I forget which. Anyway, that light cue and tiny tip(most were 12.75 or bigger) meant instant low deflection. It was embarrassing. A table length shot on a bar table to pocket an object ball sitting near the pocket I could miss badly when I juiced the cue a lot. Talking close to a full ball off on my aim using parallel english. Of course once I got used to that stick that was how much less allowance I had to make for those shots.
That shot is just an easy example of how much different the cue ball's path was with low deflection. Other more difficult shots were where the low deflection really shined. I haven't tried today's low deflection shafts but judging by that stick I wouldn't be surprised if the best of them reduced the allowance you have to make for speed and spin on some shots by as much as 75-90%. There is a learning curve but I would think a low deflection shaft is worth learning to use. For a beginner or low level player, I think it is a much easier choice. Hard to justify learning to play with the toughest equipment for debatable gain. I like very tough equipment but I also saw a real gain. However that is another subject.
Hu
Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth I played with house cues. Had one or two with hinges but they never left the house. A friend with a bar and his pal that worked with the local cue and table guy were playing with twelve ounce snooker cues with milkduds, sometime in the mid to late eighties best I recall. I got one too, I could stash the house cue behind the bar.
The shaft was either nine or eleven millimeter, I forget which. Anyway, that light cue and tiny tip(most were 12.75 or bigger) meant instant low deflection. It was embarrassing. A table length shot on a bar table to pocket an object ball sitting near the pocket I could miss badly when I juiced the cue a lot. Talking close to a full ball off on my aim using parallel english. Of course once I got used to that stick that was how much less allowance I had to make for those shots.
That shot is just an easy example of how much different the cue ball's path was with low deflection. Other more difficult shots were where the low deflection really shined. I haven't tried today's low deflection shafts but judging by that stick I wouldn't be surprised if the best of them reduced the allowance you have to make for speed and spin on some shots by as much as 75-90%. There is a learning curve but I would think a low deflection shaft is worth learning to use. For a beginner or low level player, I think it is a much easier choice. Hard to justify learning to play with the toughest equipment for debatable gain. I like very tough equipment but I also saw a real gain. However that is another subject.
Hu
Lou, In case you haven't noticed, Joey does not catch onto ANYTHING too fast !...I would trade my pension, for all he has spent on books, DVD's, stroke trainers, new style tips, etc..!..Now it appears he is going to go through them all over again, because he just discovered, he may have been using the wrong 'deflection' shaft..Gotta give him credit, he will leave no stone unturned ! At least he has cut down on his endless "infomercials", every time some exciting [sic] new aid comes out !
PS..By the way, what the hell does "FHE" stand for ?...I just noticed that new acronym in this thread..I am so antiquated ! (never mind, I really don't care)
Looking forward to Christmas dinner. Hope everyone has a great one
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Well, whaddayagonnado., Dick. Some guys are equipment whores and think the next shaft, or "system," or tip, or glove, or chalk, or other gimcrack is where they'll finally find their game, instead of time on the table.
I think FHE is Front Hand english, but I'm not sure. Never heard that one before.
Lou Figueroa
I appreciate the input CJ, you can't get to your level
and not know what you're talking about.
The center pocket aspect is true. I play on a tight Diamond
and you better favor the inside of the pocket, because if you
brush the rail with a little speed on the object ball it will hang.
The rail shots or close to the rail shots have to be handled
differently than something closer to the center of the table
where you have the entire pocket to work with.
I have always favored a little outside over a little inside, but
I do use either based on the situation.
one knock Joey is never guilty of!
Lou,
I have to call BS on not putting in the hours. Not sure how many years I have known Joey now, quite a few. I don't know anyone that comes close to putting in the hours on his game. He is always seeking better equipment but when testing new stuff he puts in still more hours, not expecting a magic bullet but something that might be adapted to his game.
I mostly sit back and enjoy the banter and occasional barbs between my friends but this claim is barking up the wrong tree. If I put in the hours seriously working on my game Joey does I might be able to play pool again.
Hu
Lou,
I have to call BS on not putting in the hours. Not sure how many years I have known Joey now, quite a few. I don't know anyone that comes close to putting in the hours on his game. He is always seeking better equipment but when testing new stuff he puts in still more hours, not expecting a magic bullet but something that might be adapted to his game.
I mostly sit back and enjoy the banter and occasional barbs between my friends but this claim is barking up the wrong tree. If I put in the hours seriously working on my game Joey does I might be able to play pool again.
Hu
Lou, you do understand that some, no, most folks will never "see" how to shoot. I play in a league, and this woman, about mid 50's, has been playing league for years, and years. She is still about an APA 3. Her mechanics are not bad, her stroke is not half bad, and she has got a decent stance.
But, my God, she will miss shots from anywhere, hard ones, easy ones, it don't matter. yeah, she makes them sometimes, but she misses way more than she makes balls.
So, after watching her for the last 2 sessions (I'm new to the league) I pull her to the side and ask how she aims.... she ranted on and on about something that I could not even follow.
So, I showed her a simple process that involves dividing the ob into quarters. Then showed how she can line up the cue from the cb to the ob to find the "quarter" she needs to hit with the edge of the cue ball. It took about 15 minutes and another 15 minutes of her practicing...and she can make balls now. Is she ever gonna be a world beater? Nope. Can she actually have some more fun now when she can actually make a hanger now, and also make a few harder shots ? Of course.
Is it an aiming system? I don't know, but she has something to "aim" for now, versus just trying to let her brain just shoot the shot when it looks right.... she is NEVER gonna hit a million balls, or if she did, it did NOT help.
Some folks can't ever see the "shot", and I don't know why that upsets folks that can? You and many others are blessed. Just like a baseball player than can see the seams of a slider... MOST can't, and then need to find another way if they want to actually learn to hit.
Obvioiusly, what I showed her worked for "her". No, I didn't start discussing CIT and squirt and other stuff, but for right now she can make more balls than miss. As she progresses she will learn the other "stuff" or come ask me. I'm not going to volunteer anything else, cause she needs to want to learn it now, and come ask.
If there were NOT hundreds of thousands of persons like this woman, there would be no need for any aiming systems... but there are, and these folks are good for pool, good for leagues, good for bars.... and if they want to play a smidgen better, my god, why does anyone care ? Because if they get better they are more likely to keep playing than quit. Is that not a good thing for pool ?
Hu, I did not say anyone was "not putting in the hours."
What I said was that some look for improvement from new equipment and such rather than from time on the table. IOW, they can be equipment whores and still practice like the devil. IMO, guys like that that are always switching shafts have to practice a lot because they keep changing equipment instead of sticking to one arrow.
Lou Figueroa
RJ, you and I are in complete harmony when it comes to the bangers and I've done exactly what you've done, so that someone who is just putting in a few hours here and there, can realize some quick improvement and perhaps understand and enjoy the game a little more.
However, for someone serious about the game and who is willing to invest the time, I think it's a different thing. You need to have a sound approach that you can rely on, day-in-day-out, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, till death do you part.
Lou Figueroa
For me, when I start thinking about what I'm doing I tend not to play as good. I don't consciously hear the cue or feel the cue or think about if I'm swooping. I focus on the balls.
That's just me, if others play better focusing on all that stuff then go for it.
That's just me, if others play better focusing on all that stuff then go for it.
But on the flip side, there is a guy I played with on state team for ACS. He is a master level player, and he "aims" every shot...literally pointing out the spot he's going to hit on the OB with his cue tip, yeah, he shoots pretty slow, because then he starts using his cue to figure out the cb path afterwards.
It appears this guy can play, he cashes in most local tourneys, and won state championship in the Advanced division before he became a Master. But he does NOT see the shot, nor see's the path, that he has to find it.
And he relies on it day in, day out, and in sickness and in health... and it works for him.... yeah, I could tell him he's going all about it wrong, and that he needs to be like the pro's and just be able to visualize the shots and just "know" when to the pull the trigger... but it probably won't work for him, just like many others.
A very good player told me a long time ago, there are two kinds of players, the ones that see the "line" and the ones that don't. He just knew where to hit the ball, he knew the path of the cb without thinking about it... it was almost like it was a marked line....he never understood why he could see it, but he saw it.
There probably are not very many pro's that do not see the line..... just the little something they have, a gift if you will. And like most folks right here, they are not pro's, nor even want to be, they just want to play a little better.....
Hell, JB didn't really do all the bad against you with his system..... versus your non system... heck, it was his mechanics that failed him, not the system. Like I've said before, the only folks against any "systems" are the pretty good players that see the "line", for the rest of the pool world will never see it.
Thus, these other players have to "see" something else, and that something is an "edge" or a "shadow" or whatever the case may be. heck, some folks may "outgrow" it and begin to develop seeing that line after awhile.
So, for a player like you that does "see" it, you will never know what the other players don't see, but could you imagine shooting a gun with your eyes closed, because that is a way it was described to me by someone trying to "feel" it instead of "aiming" for a specific point on the object ball that he was taught way back when.
I can't even play the simple systems
To butt in a little bit here, I can't even play the simple systems like fractional aiming. I play point to point. I know the point on the cue ball and the point on the object ball I want to contact each other. If I try to see things any other way it just doesn't work. I have played around with a few systems. I can make them work just fine playing video pool. Trying to transfer that to a pool table, doesn't happen!
Hu
To butt in a little bit here, I can't even play the simple systems like fractional aiming. I play point to point. I know the point on the cue ball and the point on the object ball I want to contact each other. If I try to see things any other way it just doesn't work. I have played around with a few systems. I can make them work just fine playing video pool. Trying to transfer that to a pool table, doesn't happen!
Hu
I don't believe "seeing the line" is gift -- it is something you develop, you earn, you work for. Once you have it, it changes everything. If you don't get to that point, you use crutches.
As to JB, well, something else was going on there when it comes to the "he didn't really do all that bad"
Lou Figueroa
damn smileys
can't seem
to stop them
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I don't believe "seeing the line" is gift -- it is something you develop, you earn, you work for. Once you have it, it changes everything. If you don't get to that point, you use crutches.
As to JB, well, something else was going on there when it comes to the "he didn't really do all that bad"
Lou Figueroa
damn smileys
can't seem
to stop them
Either way, either it's a gift or it's developed. But not everyone can develop it. Just not possible. So, what should those folks do that never see the line, ever ?
Should they quit ? And if you want to call it crutches, that is fine. But nobody is complaining that is using the crutches. Shouldn't they be the ones pissed about getting "robbed" by all the devilish hucksters with aiming systems?
If I can teach a 50 year old woman with a decade of pool playing experience in 30 minutes how to finally pot balls. It appears that she was never gonna see the line the way she was going.
Maybe she does now, because by making balls more consistently now, she might actually develop a "sense" or see the "line" that was not there before. How is that a bad thing?