When did pool become like this?

D-Rock

D-Rock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My grandfather always told me that pool was a gentlemans game. What ever happened to that? Every year i'm seeing attitudes get worse, prices go higher, everything I once loved about the game being trampled on. When I was a kid I would go to the pool hall and learn all sorts of stuff from the wise players down there. A few weeks ago I was practicing a full table shot and draw back and was misscuing bad. I asked the guy at the table next to me (who was a masters player) to take a look and see if he could notice something in my stroke that was funny. He looked at me and goes "What? you want a free lesson?" No, i didn't want a free lesson, i didn't want to pay for a lesson, i wanted you to take 5 seconds and watch my stroke and help me out. nobody gives advice for free anymore, you have to "pay for a lesson" well F%@$ you all! i'm giving free lessons all the time, to anybody who wants one!!!.....1 full hour or more, if you want, you can buy me a soda, but its not required.
 
The way I heard it was: "Bums play pool, gentleman play Billiards." But, I know exactly what you mean. I almost never play outside my own home anymore and haven't for several years. It's a shame, disgraceful, even.
 
well i can say a lot has changed from when i first played (when i was 7 to 13 back in the 80's) to when i recently started playing again less then a year ago ...

namely the places there are to play at ... now, a pool table for most places is just something they can put on the floor in a corner to give them a little more income and potential customers that will buy drinks and food from them ..

as for helping others out ... i have ran into that a lot since i started again ... only a few people locally will offer me any help and that is only because they are related to me (by marriage) and even then it is like pulling a tooth for them to say anything at all ... one of em will watch me play for a few hours and not say a single thing about how i am playing even if i ask em to.

about the only local option we have in my are to find others that play on a regular basis is through the apa ... and often times it is severely frowned upon if you offer any kind of help or comments to the person you are playing against ... unless it is just a simple motion like throwing your cue on the table and accusing your opponent that has only been playing again for 2 months of sandbagging...
 
This thread got me to thinking about the one as to whether you lay your cue on the table flat or with the butt on the rail.
We moved from New York State to South Carolina in 1997. My wife now tells me I started playing seriously in NY in 1973 not '74 or '75 as I've thought:eek: In all honesty, the worst pool room I was ever in before I moved South makes most of the ones I've been in since look like dumps. Tables in bad shape and usually filthy, no carpet, no drop ceiling, dust everywhere. I've been in about three, if memory serves me, that were decent. GameTime/RipTide in Greenville, SC, now closed, Q-Masters in Virginia Beach, VA., and The Palace in Greenville, SC is not bad. Too much bar atmosphere. I won't even touch on attitude of owners/managers.
 
Pushout said:
This thread got me to thinking about the one as to whether you lay your cue on the table flat or with the butt on the rail.
We moved from New York State to South Carolina in 1997. My wife now tells me I started playing seriously in NY in 1973 not '74 or '75 as I've thought:eek: In all honesty, the worst pool room I was ever in before I moved South makes most of the ones I've been in since look like dumps. Tables in bad shape and usually filthy, no carpet, no drop ceiling, dust everywhere. I've been in about three, if memory serves me, that were decent. GameTime/RipTide in Greenville, SC, now closed, Q-Masters in Virginia Beach, VA., and The Palace in Greenville, SC is not bad. Too much bar atmosphere. I won't even touch on attitude of owners/managers.
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We do have a few pretty nice rooms in Charlotte...not a bad drive from Spartanburg if you want a decent place to play for an evening.
Steve
 
your not alone brother, I took a local 5sp and made him into one of 6, 9spds here in 2+ years. I figured alot of players would want to learn after seeing the kid kicking the hell out of them. When someone wants to really learn, really listen and not waste my time (i hate that more than anything) lessons are free. NOT 1 person has ever asked me to show them a dam thing, I tried to help a woman in the league to quit scratching on the SAME F'N SHOT ALL THE TIME, and it was a simple fix, and she told me I ALREADY HAVE A COACH! LMAO!!!!

People are too interested in games they can press pause on now my friend. No one wants to learn anything, and the ones that do get steered all screwed up by people that have NO IDEA what the hell they are talking about. One of the local haters couldn't make a ball the other day and I just looked at him and said point your thumb down to the ground dude, you don't even hold the cue right thats your problem. Well he does it and starts making balls, now his stroke is straighter instead of whipping from side to side. He just looks at me with that WTF face. The next day I'm speaking to the same guy and another looney tune about how Scott Lee will be coming down so I can work with him ( i can look at the players here, but have no one to look at me and break me down), the second looney tune goes OH WELL WHATS HE CHARGE $100/hr, I told him no not even close. Before I can finish he just goes off and says he's happy with the $20/hr lessons he gets from a top local player, but yet at the same time he is *****ING b/c he can't draw the rock.....or break worth a dam. ( THE DUDE WAS 6'4" about 300lbs lol)

It just is a fact there are many cheap people out there, they buy a 1000 dollar cue, and have a $20 game...they are so cheap they wont even invest in their own betterment, and thats pretty sad. Yep my area is full of NITS and A**HOLES so you are not alone my friend.

Grey Ghost
 
D-Rock said:
My grandfather always told me that pool was a gentlemans game. What ever happened to that? Every year i'm seeing attitudes get worse, prices go higher, everything I once loved about the game being trampled on. When I was a kid I would go to the pool hall and learn all sorts of stuff from the wise players down there. A few weeks ago I was practicing a full table shot and draw back and was misscuing bad. I asked the guy at the table next to me (who was a masters player) to take a look and see if he could notice something in my stroke that was funny. He looked at me and goes "What? you want a free lesson?" No, i didn't want a free lesson, i didn't want to pay for a lesson, i wanted you to take 5 seconds and watch my stroke and help me out. nobody gives advice for free anymore, you have to "pay for a lesson" well F%@$ you all! i'm giving free lessons all the time, to anybody who wants one!!!.....1 full hour or more, if you want, you can buy me a soda, but its not required.
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Everything boils down to a dollar. There is a lot of competition for that dollar. I understand the gamblers..that's what they are there for,but everyone wants to make the most out of their buck...When your dollar is in your pocket it's worth 50 cents,but when it's in their pocket it's worth a dollar.
 
That's absurd that someone wouldn't even bother helping you with your stroke. Personally, if someone asks me for help, they've got me. The only exception is if I'm with someone.

When I started playing, there was a house pro named William Robertson who offered lessons for $25 an hour. Despite the fact that he advertised lessons in the room, everytime I went to play he always offered me a piece of advice. Adjusting my stance, head position, tips on how to align my shot, grip etc. Never charged me a penny, I didn't even need to ask. Great guy, excellent player.
 
Welcome to capitalism at it's finest. Anyway someone can make a buck they'll do it! $70 for DVD's on how to aim a certain way or how to make X shot or Y shot. $200 an hour lessons from certified instructors who can't run a rack of balls themselves but will take your money to tell you what they think you need to know. I guess all power to these people for making their money can't fault them for that, it's just how the world is.

Now I'm in NYC so when I do frequent a pool hall there are some pretty decent guys who will lend a helping hand or are willing to talk about pool and offer up advice. Saying that there are very few pool halls left around me that actually has these decent guys to talk to or ask advice from most halls are dead most days.

Now I got back into pool last year, friend of mine got me onto his APA team. As far as Etiquette goes it's pretty much out the window in this APA league! Firstly it's a bar league, we hop from bar to bar every week and in the past year there has been 4 fights that almost broke out during our league night. When you mix alcohol and competition things tend to get heated. Guys don't know the rules, guys who think taking a defensive shot is "Jap" pool as it's called around here (sorry not my term and I mean no racial slur behind this. It's just what most people say here) and get mad that your not maning up to play them or something stupid like that. Some guys like to walk near or around the table when your about to shoot or start heckling you while your about to take a shot, I've seen it all in the past year. Just last week I happen to shoot against a guy who was rated SL5 I happen to be SL3 right now (was a solid 4 until I hit a very bad slump) it was a good match, I played a few defensive shots and dropped the 8-ball on the break and won the match. I went to shake his hand after the match and say "Good Game" which I always do weather I win or lose. Not only did this guy not shake my hand, he went on to call me a sandbagger saying I shouldn't be a SL3 and that he shouldn't have lost to the likes of me. I told him "balls roll funny for everyone sometimes" Put my hand out again and said "Good Game" He then slapped my hand away and continued to try and taunt me into playing him a race to 5 for $100. I just shook my head and walked away. Guess it's just how the times are now, your going to run into some rotten apples but for the most part you'll meet a lot of good eggs.
 
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This has been going on IMO since at least the early 70's probably before, unless I caused it. That's when I started hangin in the pool halls and was one factor contributing to me gravitating to 3C. In all that time I can count on less than one hand the people I'd rather not talk to or ever see again.

If you want to have true come rotary (sp?) take a step over the line. We welcome all that want to learn and accept all that want to teach. We all have something to offer even if its just a fun game, good conversation or good advise. We just love the game and want more players exposed to it. And the information is FREE!!!

WARRING: ONCE YOU GO ___ YOU'LL NEVER GO BACK.

One caveat: I do pay for lessons. I don't pay for opinions.
 
pooltchr said:
We do have a few pretty nice rooms in Charlotte...not a bad drive from Spartanburg if you want a decent place to play for an evening.
Steve
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Sorry if I came off the wrong way, Steve. Charlotte is too far to drive for me at this time. We've had overheating problems with our only car for some time now. I've applied for disability with arthritis in both hips and bursitis in one ankle. Haven't worked since January of 2005.
I have to confess, I'm puzzled as to why some people don't seem to care about their investment in a business and it puzzles me even more that people put up with it.
 
I'm not sure anything has changed. Granted we're supposed to love everyone equally and not stereotype but this is what I've encountered.

I started playing in the 70's and this is my experience. Granted this doesn't apply to everyone.

The "average" players seem to be the ones that treat everything as top secret. If you do ask for lessons the standard reply is "Sure learn like I did $5 a game".

Most top players once they see your serious about improving give out information no problem. I make a point to buy them a drink or pay for table time they never ask I just do it.

People who make a living from pool I see no problem with charging for their services. Who wants to work and not get paid? I would play Danny Medina "race to 9" for $20 never won a set and thought his knowledge was priceless.
 
D-Rock said:
My grandfather always told me that pool was a gentlemans game. What ever happened to that? Every year i'm seeing attitudes get worse, prices go higher, everything I once loved about the game being trampled on. When I was a kid I would go to the pool hall and learn all sorts of stuff from the wise players down there. A few weeks ago I was practicing a full table shot and draw back and was misscuing bad. I asked the guy at the table next to me (who was a masters player) to take a look and see if he could notice something in my stroke that was funny. He looked at me and goes "What? you want a free lesson?" No, i didn't want a free lesson, i didn't want to pay for a lesson, i wanted you to take 5 seconds and watch my stroke and help me out. nobody gives advice for free anymore, you have to "pay for a lesson" well F%@$ you all! i'm giving free lessons all the time, to anybody who wants one!!!.....1 full hour or more, if you want, you can buy me a soda, but its not required.
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i've heard about these masters players before. i'm not sure who decides what makes one or not but every one of them that i've run into seems to let that label get in their head. they're all pretty cocky. but i don't get the cocky attitude at all. most of them shoot pretty straight but they don't shoot so good that they're that much better than everyone else.

i give pointers out when ever people ask and everyone i've asked for advice usually gives it without any money changing hands
 
Stylez777 said:
Now I got back into pool last year, friend of mine got me onto his APA team. As far as Etiquette goes it's pretty much out the window in this APA league! Firstly it's a bar league, we hop from bar to bar every week and in the past year there has been 4 fights that almost broke out during our league night. When you mix alcohol and competition things tend to get heated. Guys don't know the rules, guys who think taking a defensive shot is "Jap" pool as it's called around here (sorry not my term and I mean no racial slur behind this. It's just what most people say here) and get mad that your not maning up to play them or something stupid like that. Some guys like to walk near or around the table when your about to shoot or start heckling you while your about to take a shot, I've seen it all in the past year. Just last week I happen to shoot against a guy who was rated SL5 I happen to be SL3 right now (was a solid 4 until I hit a very bad slump) it was a good match, I played a few defensive shots and dropped the 8-ball on the break and won the match. I went to shake his hand after the match and say "Good Game" which I always do weather I win or lose. Not only did this guy not shake my hand, he went on to call me a sandbagger saying I shouldn't be a SL3 and that he shouldn't have lost to the likes of me. I told him "balls roll funny for everyone sometimes" Put my hand out again and said "Good Game" He then slapped my hand away and continued to try and taunt me into playing him a race to 5 for $100. I just shook my head and walked away. Guess it's just how the times are now, your going to run into some rotten apples but for the most part you'll meet a lot of good eggs.
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that sounds so much like the local league i have to play in ... its sad ... i am barely a 'solid' 3 at the moment .. but have been called a sandbagger more times then i can remember ... just because i have better luck cutting a sharp angle on a shot then i do trying to bank one ...
 
D-Rock said:
My grandfather always told me that pool was a gentlemans game. What ever happened to that? Every year i'm seeing attitudes get worse, prices go higher, everything I once loved about the game being trampled on. When I was a kid I would go to the pool hall and learn all sorts of stuff from the wise players down there. A few weeks ago I was practicing a full table shot and draw back and was misscuing bad. I asked the guy at the table next to me (who was a masters player) to take a look and see if he could notice something in my stroke that was funny. He looked at me and goes "What? you want a free lesson?" No, i didn't want a free lesson, i didn't want to pay for a lesson, i wanted you to take 5 seconds and watch my stroke and help me out. nobody gives advice for free anymore, you have to "pay for a lesson" well F%@$ you all! i'm giving free lessons all the time, to anybody who wants one!!!.....1 full hour or more, if you want, you can buy me a soda, but its not required.
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as a new player I have to agree completely.

NO ONE has taken time to help me. It's so ****ing annoying.

I keep having to learn my draw from reading help on this forum, and its tough as hell.

When im at the local pool halls no one will help me. The owner (when I came in and was the only person there) he showed me what HE can do, but he didnt show me how I can do it :P After showing me what he can do he walked away even know I asked for help.

Everyone is like this - and it makes players quit.
 
I guess I was one of the lucky ones. I started playing pool at a bar shortly after I turned 21 on their free pool night, and was getting my but kicked by one of the guys there. Turned out he was decent apa 7 in 8 ball. He started to give me and my friends pointers, and after a couple of weeks of running into him there he asked me if I wanted to join a team if he started one. In the past couple years since I met him he's taught me a lot, and now he doesn't beat me near as much.

I'm not a master but if I'm better than the person I'm playing with I will help them, and try to pass on the things that I have learned. I feel if they improve then it forces me to improve as well to keep my edge.

I do agree though a lot of the really good shooters I see at the pool hall aren't very personable in general.
 
Just to play devils advocate.... If you really want to learn you will either work it out on your own, find a mentor who you can learn from for free or do what most people in every other serious sport do: Pay someone who has spent the time and effort learning the game and trade your money for their experience.

To think every guy in the pool room who plays three balls better than you owes you anything, including free tips and advice, just because you are playing the same game is as big a problem as anything else in pool.

A friend who taught me a lot about the game once told me "When you get tired of missing you will learn the right way." He was right.

I used to shoot IPSC pistol competitions pretty seriously. I hit a plateau I couldn't seem to get over. A world champion came to a local club and for $500 you got two full days with him in a small class. I didnt have much money then and what I had I spent on competitions but I wanted to get better. So I nutted up and took the class. In the next few months after the class I jumped up from a low B to a strong A and was a threat to win local matches. Without that investment I don't know if I would have made it before getting discouraged. If you pick the right teacher the return on investment can be outstanding.

What is 10 or 20 years experience at a high level worth? If you think the price is too high no problem but to down someone for wanting to be compensated for sharing something they worked hard to learn is a no go IMO.

I am talking about proven guys here. Not Fast Larry and his Wonder Dog and the myriad clones of him which seem to run rampant in the pool world.

I guarantee if you post a video of you shooting a few a games and link to it here you would have more than a few responses offering help.
 
In addition to all the good points made here, none of it should come as a surprise. You can generally tell the personality and character of a person when they play pool. I'm not talking a game or two, but those you know from a tournament, money game, or just from playing them often. Do they wine, shark, pout, compliment, sigh, give up, acknowledge, laugh, enjoy, fight, air, etc.etc. when they play? Pool is such a mental and all- encompassing game. You have to give so much of yourself, at certain levels, that you inevitablly leave a portion of yourself, at the table when the match is over. Show me a gentleman at the table, and you pretty much know what kind of guy he is away from it. And show me an asshole at the table....................
 
GreyGhost That's Awsome Good for you.. :grin:


If your ever in my area (Dalton Ga.) I'll be glad to take a few pointers from ya.. I'm a above avg player but not as good as many out there...



I am all the time giving pointers to kids (and adults) at the bowling alley. I am a certified coach but don't charge a dime to anyone. If they want help all they have to do is ask. I do offer help to the youngsters but the Adults tend to get upset if you ask them if they want a few pointers so I just let them ask me.

My 12 year old son who has been bowling less than a year has went from a Book Avg of 86 (back in May) to a 146 current avg.

Now I have to figure out a game plan to teach him how to shoot.. Not being a Billiards Coach I just have to figure out drills and such and a method of teaching.


greyghost said:
your not alone brother, I took a local 5sp and made him into one of 6, 9spds here in 2+ years. I figured alot of players would want to learn after seeing the kid kicking the hell out of them. When someone wants to really learn, really listen and not waste my time (i hate that more than anything) lessons are free. NOT 1 person has ever asked me to show them a dam thing, I tried to help a woman in the league to quit scratching on the SAME F'N SHOT ALL THE TIME, and it was a simple fix, and she told me I ALREADY HAVE A COACH! LMAO!!!!

People are too interested in games they can press pause on now my friend. No one wants to learn anything, and the ones that do get steered all screwed up by people that have NO IDEA what the hell they are talking about. One of the local haters couldn't make a ball the other day and I just looked at him and said point your thumb down to the ground dude, you don't even hold the cue right thats your problem. Well he does it and starts making balls, now his stroke is straighter instead of whipping from side to side. He just looks at me with that WTF face. The next day I'm speaking to the same guy and another looney tune about how Scott Lee will be coming down so I can work with him ( i can look at the players here, but have no one to look at me and break me down), the second looney tune goes OH WELL WHATS HE CHARGE $100/hr, I told him no not even close. Before I can finish he just goes off and says he's happy with the $20/hr lessons he gets from a top local player, but yet at the same time he is *****ING b/c he can't draw the rock.....or break worth a dam. ( THE DUDE WAS 6'4" about 300lbs lol)

It just is a fact there are many cheap people out there, they buy a 1000 dollar cue, and have a $20 game...they are so cheap they wont even invest in their own betterment, and thats pretty sad. Yep my area is full of NITS and A**HOLES so you are not alone my friend.

Grey Ghost
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I learned more from a runout player in Baton Rouge named Kevin Frazier then I've learned from any other player. He'd help you out because he enjoyed it, not to show you how smart he was or to make some money (which is ok too). It was really cool and I miss those learning experiences very much. As long as you were interested and really wanted to learn tips were part of the game. Now I just need to find a mentor in Dallas...

To all you great players out there, a few humble tips go a long way...as does playing with class.
 
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