When is the best time (skill level) to start lessons?

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
I hope this doesn't overlap too much with the other threads on lessons. I was wondering when you think the best time is to get lessons, in terms of skill level? I'm thinking about attending one of those 2-day programs somewhere (haven't decided yet).

Obviously it's good to break any bad habits as early as possible and learn the proper fundamentals. On other hand, you want to get the most out that investment so having some experience might be helpful too.
 
PKM said:
I hope this doesn't overlap too much with the other threads on lessons. I was wondering when you think the best time is to get lessons, in terms of skill level? I'm thinking about attending one of those 2-day programs somewhere (haven't decided yet).

Obviously it's good to break any bad habits as early as possible and learn the proper fundamentals. On other hand, you want to get the most out that investment so having some experience might be helpful too.

Immediately. It is NEVER too soon, there is only time wasted.
 
PKM said:
I hope this doesn't overlap too much with the other threads on lessons. I was wondering when you think the best time is to get lessons, in terms of skill level? I'm thinking about attending one of those 2-day programs somewhere (haven't decided yet).

Obviously it's good to break any bad habits as early as possible and learn the proper fundamentals. On other hand, you want to get the most out that investment so having some experience might be helpful too.

I have worked with players who have played pool for 50+ years, and players who are absolute beginners...and every age in between. It doesn't matter what your skill level is, quality instruction is a shortcut to permanent improvement...as long as you make the commitment to practice what you learn, correctly and diligently.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
I have worked with players who have played pool for 50+ years, and players who are absolute beginners...and every age in between. It doesn't matter what your skill level is, quality instruction is a shortcut to permanent improvement...as long as you make the commitment to practice what you learn, correctly and diligently.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
What's the first step in the 12-step program?:D
 
Of course, one could always say get lessons early and get lessons often and that will always be the best case. Definitely this could be done, if you could afford it. But in addition, at some point, you'd still have to get battle tested in competitive play.

But, it sounds like your post is more geared towards minimizing your expenditure of funds, and still develop your game. In other words, you're not afraid to spend some money on yourself for lessons, but you want to do it at a point where you can get the most gain for your buck.

If that's correct, then I'd say that the best place to start is to get involved in leagues. Since originally, you may be at the lower or moderate level of play, then I'd recommend getting involved in leagues that encourage strong and lower level players to be on the same team. This will give you the benefit of learning from teammates, but more importantly teammates who are stronger players and have good knowledge (maybe not perfect) of what they're talking about.

Some leagues encourage all the stronger players to bunch up on teams together and the lesser players to bunch up as well. You can learn from these by watching those other stronger teams, but typically more difficult to do. If you want to learn by watching stronger players, than you can easily just watch the pros on TV. These types of leagues don't encourage a stronger player to teach others, like in leagues where the stronger players have a vested interest in the success of moderate or lower players.

Inside any or all of these leagues, you will likely get some level of gain - either from watching, or simply from playing on a regular interval.

The other advantage of the league play is that since you're talking about bang for your buck, you'll actually have a chance to make some money depending on the success of your team. This factor, along with increased ability to get comparable competition is a big advantage to league play vs just playing in a bar on your own, which both may cost essentially the same, except you can win some return on your investment in league play. If you get on the leagues where the stronger players are bunched together, then obviously they're gonna get the lion's share of the money, so you'll basically be donating to them. If you get on a league where the stronger, moderate, and lower level players are mixed together, then you have an opportunity to win the lion's share of the money no matter what level you are. And you have the ability to get battle tested in the higher level tournament play as you progress.

With a moderate committment to the game, in this environment, you should easily be able to advance at least to a moderate level. At this point, you could very easily consider taking a lesson, which would assist you in getting above mediocrity and heading on your path to higher level play. Then, as you progress towards higher level play, you can take lessons as often as you feel, and be rewarded for it. At this level, can even use some successes in tournaments to fund your lesson program. This becomes an ultimate win/win situation.

My $.02 worth, turned into at least a dime... ;)
 
imo when you're a C, because of your second reason. you have to know yourself before you can learn. it's the old saying "when the student is ready, the teacher will come".

as for thost 2 day lessons,,,do you mean one of those learn from the pros lessons, like pool school? it depends on the pro. but honestly, you'd get more from a good teacher than from 2 days with a pro, which is just for show and ego boosting for bragging rights. the bad habits should be addressed now if you're just starting,

be aware - a good teacher doesn't teach you his way, he teaches you within your limits. i have a very long bridge and everyone tried to get me to change my bridge which was a waste of time because i am who i am,,,,,,until one player said if i use a long bridge then shorten my stroke. see the difference?
 
Yeah I agree Bruin at about a C level or a moderate level depending on what other league system you get involved in.
 
PKM said:
I hope this doesn't overlap too much with the other threads on lessons. I was wondering when you think the best time is to get lessons, in terms of skill level? I'm thinking about attending one of those 2-day programs somewhere (haven't decided yet).

Obviously it's good to break any bad habits as early as possible and learn the proper fundamentals. On other hand, you want to get the most out that investment so having some experience might be helpful too.


What City do you live in? randyg
 
I agree with FLICKit and bruin. I started out in APA league and got my first lesson after having played for a year. I had already made my first competitive break-and-run in my 8-ball league, so I knew I could shoot a little, but I had already noticed that sometimes my stroke did what I expected and sometimes it didn't, and I wanted a set of really solid fundamentals to practice so I could gain consistency to make the next leap forward.

I think that's the best time for lessons; once you've learned how to play the game on a basic level, but you want to be able to increase shot-making consistency and positional ability. At that point, you need to start really practicing your stroke, and so that's when it makes the most sense to pay someone who can help you find a stroke to practice.

-Andrew
 
Thanks for the input. I actually started playing in a league recently. I'm at a level 4 now, I guess the equivalent of a C player. Just recently decided to really try to learn the game instead of just banging around for fun.

On the lessons, I was looking into pool schools, including yours Randy. I'm in northern VA, so there's nothing too close to me as far as I know. But I'm willing to make a trip.
 
Take a lesson as soon as possible, just to make sure that you're not practicing bad habits right now. Even worse, you might be programming your brain inappropriately on every shot right now, if you don't know a few important principles. For example, if you don't know what collision-induced throw is, then you are probably making cut shots and thinking that you're hitting a contact point on the object ball directly opposite from the center of the pocket. This would be untrue, because you have to overcut a cut shot in order to pocket the ball. So you're telling yourself that you're doing one thing, but your body is doing something else. And when you actually do hit that contact point directly opposite the pocket, you miss the shot and tell yourself that you failed to hit your intended contact point. You're wrong whether you made or missed the shot, simply because you didn't know about the phenomenon of contact-induced throw. Most people cannot learn about these things on their own, so they develop a game based upon an untruth, and then they're screwed when they learn the truth years later (and they no longer know how to aim a cut shot !). There are many such principles that a person needs to learn as soon as possible. You don't need to attend a 2-day seminar. Just pay some expert about $25/hr for a couple of hours and pick his/her brain clean ! Then move on to another expert and do the same thing. Just remember everything they tell you, and then practice or experiment on your own time. And don't believe anything anybody tells you ... they may unknowingly give bad advice. Test it out. If it works for you, it works.
 
Andrew Manning said:
consistency to make the next leap forward.

I think that's the best time for lessons; once you've learned how to play the game on a basic level, but you want to be able to increase shot-making consistency and positional ability. At that point, you need to start really practicing your stroke, and so that's when it makes the most sense to pay someone who can help you find a stroke to practice.

-Andrew

most "students" want to be told what to do. this is not learning, as they end up aping what they are told. after a while, he should get a camcorder and record himself playing to try and correct the mistakes himself. at the very least, even it that fails, he will have a pretty good knowledge about what he can/cannot do, and what his body dictates.

armed with that knowledge, he can then get his lessons so that there is interaction with his teacher, not just blind copying.

thing is,,,,most "students" don't want to go through all that trouble.
 
PKM said:
Thanks for the input. I actually started playing in a league recently. I'm at a level 4 now, I guess the equivalent of a C player. Just recently decided to really try to learn the game instead of just banging around for fun.

On the lessons, I was looking into pool schools, including yours Randy. I'm in northern VA, so there's nothing too close to me as far as I know. But I'm willing to make a trip.

I've heard that Shawn Putnam is a very good teacher. A friend in Northern VA suggested him.
 
Rarelymisses said:
Take a lesson as soon as possible, just to make sure that you're not practicing bad habits right now. Even worse, you might be programming your brain inappropriately on every shot right now, if you don't know a few important principles. ...
You don't need to attend a 2-day seminar. Just pay some expert about $25/hr for a couple of hours and pick his/her brain clean ! Then move on to another expert and do the same thing. Just remember everything they tell you, and then practice or experiment on your own time. And don't believe anything anybody tells you ... they may unknowingly give bad advice. Test it out. If it works for you, it works.

Good advice. I've read a couple of books that helped me understand at least the basic principles like throw, even if I'm not using it correctly yet. I actually did take one lesson with a pro a few months ago just on a whim before I read anything so I was pretty clueless. I didn't really know what to ask, he gave me a few pointers on my fundamentals, but basically told me they were already pretty good. That's why I'm looking into a more structured lesson and I think at least a little experience will be helpful, because looking back I'm sure there is much to correct in my stroke that could have been addressed.
 
Rarelymisses said:
Take a lesson as soon as possible, just to make sure that you're not practicing bad habits right now.

Taking a little lesson early can be a good idea.

Just want to state, it's not as mandatory as you're letting on. All of those aspects that you relay are quite true. Just want to say, that even if you learn it all the wrong way with contact induced throw, and then get corrected at a later point. There will definitely be a setback as you have to re-adjust to the now correct methods. In the big scheme of things, this setback will be a minor adjustment period.

Learning it the right way is definitely recommended. Just saying, the good teachers are accustomed to encountering people who have learned the wrong way and thus those good teachers are adept at implementing proper correction.
 
PKM said:
Thanks for the input. I actually started playing in a league recently. I'm at a level 4 now, I guess the equivalent of a C player. Just recently decided to really try to learn the game instead of just banging around for fun.

On the lessons, I was looking into pool schools, including yours Randy. I'm in northern VA, so there's nothing too close to me as far as I know. But I'm willing to make a trip.

What pool hall do you play at? I'm also in Northern VA, as are several other forum members.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
What pool hall do you play at? I'm also in Northern VA, as are several other forum members.

-Andrew

Fast Eddies, Bridges, Hard Times
 
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If you could travel to Charlotte, I would be glad to work with you. Or if you want to wait until next fall, I will be having Randy back in Charlotte with his road show...and probably bring Scott and Cane with him. Scott does a lot of traveling and finds himself in your area from time to time as well. You have several options if you want structured lessons from any number of professional instructors.
Steve
 
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