When kicking, bottom or top english on CB?

oldplayer

oldplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just wondering what the best thing to do when kicking one rail or two or more.....what is best circumstance to use bottom english? or, is it more of a position play to use it?
 
Bottom usually shortens the shot and top lengthens it, so it depends on what the shot calls for.

Speed, side, and top/bottom are ALL critical factors, for sure.

Jeff Livingston
 
General a little high is most accurate.
Kicks are same as banks...everything changes with angle-speed-english-
top or bottom.


Set up cueball and try and shoot across table returning to your tip.
Try this with top then with bottom. Results will convince you.
 
oldplayer said:
just wondering what the best thing to do when kicking one rail or two or more.....what is best circumstance to use bottom english? or, is it more of a position play to use it?
Click to expand...

I roll it with the tip a little above center for most kicks. I wouldn't exactly call that follow, it's just to get a clean rolling action.

The only case of using low is if I want to stick the cue ball after the kick, or "bend" the kick (which is rare).
 
good info so far, I use 1/2 tip above center most of the time and a tip of high right or left the rest of the time. never use bottom unless I stick the cue ball for shape.
 
TATE said:
I roll it with the tip a little above center for most kicks. I wouldn't exactly call that follow, it's just to get a clean rolling action.

The only case of using low is if I want to stick the cue ball after the kick, or "bend" the kick (which is rare).
Click to expand...


Same.

Crisp draw can be useful when the cb is close to rail, kick around the blocker that's near the rail, to hit the ob also near same rail, then have cb draw back again to rail and snuggle back behind original blocker, reversing the situation, but now ob has left the area.

Have to be laying right..sort of a little triangle layout, or all three in a line, close to each other, near the same rail..but fun shot, when they are.
 
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Don't forget stun. Stun shots shorten up and you have to learn them bc when the cb lays close to the rail or you are pounding the cueball u will get stun off the first rail. Any cueball hit hard will not allow English to materialize bf it hits the rail, hence u get stun.

A few good shots to test a table for stun on kicks is out of the corner crossside and then again crosscorner. A rough estimation I use if I haven't tested and am kicking cold is it will shorten up about 1/3 of the amount of angle. So for example out of the corner cross side is two diamonds so it will shorten up roughly 2/3 of one diamond.

Also remember on stun attempts if the cueball is not hit hard but rolling speed it will pick up natural follow and it will lengthen out.
 
if your stroke is straight a rolling cue ball (tip just above center) vertical axis is most consistent
jmho
id only use draw if the point of aim was blocked then id go up(one diamond higher) a diamond and use draw
or down a diamond and use spin
or if i wanted a flatter angle into the ball i was kicking at id also use draw
 
alphadog said:
General a little high is most accurate.
Kicks are same as banks...everything changes with angle-speed-english-
top or bottom.


Set up cueball and try and shoot across table returning to your tip.
Try this with top then with bottom. Results will convince you.
Click to expand...

When hitting straight across the table to have the cb return to your tip, follow or draw won't matter as long as you stay on the vertical center line of the cb. When you get off center hits by accident, then it matters.

For the truest angles off the rail, you want medium speed and hit the cb one tip above center. One tip above center gives you a naturally rolling ball.
 
Neil said:
When hitting straight across the table to have the cb return to your tip, follow or draw won't matter as long as you stay on the vertical center line of the cb. When you get off center hits by accident, then it matters.

For the truest angles off the rail, you want medium speed and hit the cb one tip above center. One tip above center gives you a naturally rolling ball.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the point of the exercize.Perfect execution =no change
Less then perfect is magnified with draw.
 
My experience on the most common kick.

You want to create max distance between the CB & OB. The CB will stop on full OB contact if you use top, as the spin reverses off the rail.

If you want the CB to roll after full ball OB contact, use bottom.
 
When I Practice Kicking I use one tip of top for a rolling cue ball effect. That is my baseline. From there I know what any variation I can use.

randyg
 
Learning to bend your kicks with top and draw will open up all new avenues to you and let you maximize your chances to hit the ball and come away with favorable results... There are several one and 2 rail kicks that the object ball becomes huge in because you have a 2nd chance coming out of a corner on making contact... Bending the ball also lets you work the ball to hit the right side of the ball while maximizing percentages... The effect is of course largest at high speed but its utility at lower speeds cannot be totally discounted... Usually the only time I am not bending a kick is if I am lag kicking and trying to lay on a ball...
 
oldplayer said:
just wondering what the best thing to do when kicking one rail or two or more.....what is best circumstance to use bottom english? or, is it more of a position play to use it?
Click to expand...

:thumbup:


If you really want to learn...use high left, then use high right and shoot the five rail kick shot and notice the difference.


And if you want to do a one rail kick...shoot the cue ball with extreme low and hit a rail at a 45 degree angle and watch how you can bend the cue ball.

Put a ball hanging into a corner pocket and shoot the long kick but shoot past the side pocket to pocket the ball with extreme low.
 
One rail I use a touch of follow, but if the angle into the rail is shallow and I need to shoot firm, I use center to avoid having the cue ball curve forward after hitting the rail. For most multi-railers, running english makes the shot play more natural and predictable.
 
Your best bet

You would do best to learn kick and bank shots using Center ball English and use the angle to the rail comes off with the same angle approach. As you learn to hit balls and shots consistently with this approach, you can work on using English to shorten or lengthen the angle and to produce follow, or stun on after making contact with the object ball when kicking.
 
oldplayer said:
When kicking, bottom or top english on CB?
Click to expand...
For one-rail kicks, a rolling CB results in the most predictable and consistent rebound. A rolling CB is used in the following kick-shot aiming systems:

through-diamond rolling-ball one-rail kick and bank shot aiming system
shallow-angle contact-point-mirror-image kick-shot aiming system

For multiple-rail kicks, running english with a rolling CB is the most predictable and consistent. This is the case with the following kick-shot aiming systems:

two-rail parallel-line kick shot aiming system
Plus System for aiming two-rail kicks off a short rail
Corner 5 System for aiming two-, three-, and four-rail kicks off a long rail
spot-on-the-wall kick shot aiming system

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Lots of good info here so far. I recommend hitting a ton of one-rail kick shots, working all the way up and down the vertical axis of the cueball. I see a lot of amateur players using side spin on one-rail kicks that don't require it, often missing the ball entirely. As you play around with it, you will find out how much you can shorten/lengthen the angle with just follow and draw (and speed, of course), which may be more than you suspect. Obviously, side spin will be required for shots where you need to dramatically change the angle, but often you can get what you need without it (and, IMO, much more predictably) with follow/draw.

Aaron
 
Here's a favorite kick of Grady Mathew's. It is surprisingly consistent. Eventually you need to be able to use/predict lots of different spins on kicks.

CropperCapture[68].png
 
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