????When the Japanese market dries up????

BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
Ah yes, the forum……….the only thing missing is a bag of popcorn and cold rootbeer!
At least now I have more during the day to think about than building cues and when my next FHM will be arriving.

“When the Japanese market dries up” …… where have I heard that before??? Let me see…………….for the moment I just can’t quite recall….Where HAVE I heard that before? Oh well, it doesn’t really matter where that saying came from. But could someone please explain to us just what does that mean exactly? I’ve talked to a number of people about this and nobody seems to know. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Dave
Barenbrugge Cues, Inc.
http://www.barenbrugge-cues.com
http://www.ilovecues.com
 
Dave,
Maybe I'm just tired or something, but it seems to me that you are coming across more and more like an ass each time you post. You initially handled things well, but then you can't seem to let anything go. And why this post? Are you feeling your oats because you have a sweet business deal and now you want to talk some trash? This "question" that you post seems to be dripping with sarcasm. I could be wrong, but I get a strange vibe about this. Tomorrow when I get up, I'll read this again and maybe I'll have a different take on things. Maybe it will sound different to me then. Who knows.
 
there a lot of cuemakers who have been thriving by selling overseas. ed prewitt, and i LOVE his work,,,is one.

you can look at it a few ways. one, that the asian market is just a market, and like everything else, it gets oversaturated......or two, that you guyz have been getting MORE THAN top dollar for your cues, which are not sustainable stateside,,,in which case, you may have to chuck that bmw for a ford.

there is also an underlying resentment that you( not you specifically, as i know nothing about your cues) have forsaken the states and its customer base for the more lucrative asian market. again, i must cite prewitt as one who had become virtually unreachable because of his focus on asia,
 
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I think the word is in Vogue, or Out of Vogue. As desirable, or not desirable. buy the Japanese Buyer. think someone on this forum call Dave in Japan could have a REALISTIC HANDLE on the True Japanese Market, and if the Japanese Buyer are in a Cue Buying Mode, and what Cue or Price Range Cue they are buying.

Have heard that DARTS is become very BIG in Japan.
 
The only guy buying cues in Japan is Lucky. Most all the other dealers Cosmo, ER Sports, TPCC, NewArt, and others haven't updated stock in ages. Although cues don't sell in numbers near as much as they did about 4 years ago, when the do sell, they're still sadly overpriced. From time to time, I'll get my hands on a good deal, and buy a higher end cue from the states and sell it here in Japan, but those numbers have greatly decreased. I could still bring close to $5,000 for an average JW, but more than likely, I'll have to hold on to it for 6 months to a year before I find a buyer.
Cogs are now available in the USA, DP is punching out cues like rabbits in heat on fleaby. Two very good examples of the effects of the recent slowdown in the Japanese cue market. I don't blame the Black Boars, Showmans, Prewitts, and others for their great deals with lucky. Probably great business moves. They're getting prices for their cues that are impossible anywhere else and they're riding a great wave. I say to ride it as long as you can, and to continue to make a great product, because eventually even Lucky is gonna have to slow down, and those cue makers are going to have to return to the US market where the consumer isn't easily convinced that a $5,000 cue is going to make you a world champion.
I would guess that there are close to 200 brand new Mike Sigel cues lying in storage here in Japan with no hope of ever making a return for their sorry dealers that are now stuck with them.
dave
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Ah yes, the forum……….the only thing missing is a bag of popcorn and cold rootbeer!
At least now I have more during the day to think about than building cues and when my next FHM will be arriving.

“When the Japanese market dries up” …… where have I heard that before??? Let me see…………….for the moment I just can’t quite recall….Where HAVE I heard that before? Oh well, it doesn’t really matter where that saying came from. But could someone please explain to us just what does that mean exactly? I’ve talked to a number of people about this and nobody seems to know. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Dave
Barenbrugge Cues, Inc.
http://www.barenbrugge-cues.com
http://www.ilovecues.com
Click to expand...

Are you saying all your Cues are made here in the U.S. and you are selling
into foriegn markets?

As we all know, there are a few manufactures of cues in Japan & Korea that make most of the "U.S." Cues and Private label them.

They are dirt cheap to produce and are built using the designs the purchaser supplies them. Freight is the big cost factor more so than the product.

So if you are selling into the asian market, you would be competing with
the large manufactures who already have massive market penetration.

Who pay's the freight charges?

What is your profit margin?

How do you go to market?

I looked at your site, and you Cues are very beautiful. Not my personal tase, but very nice.:)
 
Dave:

Don't know much about the Japan market... In fact everything I know comes from Tokyo Dave's well-written post. Don't know if that market will dry up, but know that your cue prices make my bum pucker up. Beautiful cues at Szamboti prices!

I got the same sense of sarcasm from your post as dogginda9 and wonder where you are getting this distain for the forum. Your post has a snooty (yes, I said "snooty"... you pronounce it "snoo-tay") attitude that is... distasteful at best.
 
serious Q............

dogginda9 said:
Dave,
Maybe I'm just tired or something, but it seems to me that you are coming across more and more like an ass each time you post. You initially handled things well, but then you can't seem to let anything go. And why this post? Are you feeling your oats because you have a sweet business deal and now you want to talk some trash? This "question" that you post seems to be dripping with sarcasm. I could be wrong, but I get a strange vibe about this. Tomorrow when I get up, I'll read this again and maybe I'll have a different take on things. Maybe it will sound different to me then. Who knows.
Click to expand...

It was late when I posted........are you trying to cause trouble again?
Your trying to read between the lines and have formed your opinion on that, I believe. No oats..........nothing is forever except for two things and neither have anything to do with pool or cues. It is a serious question from an inquiring mind.
sincerely............Dave
 
Now this is the kind of information I was looking for.....................
What Tokyo Dave has to say...........
 
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BillYards said:
Dave:

Don't know much about the Japan market... In fact everything I know comes from Tokyo Dave's well-written post. Don't know if that market will dry up, but know that your cue prices make my bum pucker up. Beautiful cues at Szamboti prices!

I got the same sense of sarcasm from your post as dogginda9 and wonder where you are getting this distain for the forum. Your post has a snooty (yes, I said "snooty"... you pronounce it "snoo-tay") attitude that is... distasteful at best.
Click to expand...

Thats one of the great things about forums in general..............you can post three words and get thirty opinions on it. BUT that's what it's all about I guess.
No malice intent........................
 
Tokyo-dave said:
The only guy buying cues in Japan is Lucky. Most all the other dealers Cosmo, ER Sports, TPCC, NewArt, and others haven't updated stock in ages. Although cues don't sell in numbers near as much as they did about 4 years ago, when the do sell, they're still sadly overpriced. From time to time, I'll get my hands on a good deal, and buy a higher end cue from the states and sell it here in Japan, but those numbers have greatly decreased. I could still bring close to $5,000 for an average JW, but more than likely, I'll have to hold on to it for 6 months to a year before I find a buyer.
Cogs are now available in the USA, DP is punching out cues like rabbits in heat on fleaby. Two very good examples of the effects of the recent slowdown in the Japanese cue market. I don't blame the Black Boars, Showmans, Prewitts, and others for their great deals with lucky. Probably great business moves. They're getting prices for their cues that are impossible anywhere else and they're riding a great wave. I say to ride it as long as you can, and to continue to make a great product, because eventually even Lucky is gonna have to slow down, and those cue makers are going to have to return to the US market where the consumer isn't easily convinced that a $5,000 cue is going to make you a world champion.
I would guess that there are close to 200 brand new Mike Sigel cues lying in storage here in Japan with no hope of ever making a return for their sorry dealers that are now stuck with them.
dave
Click to expand...



I have always had the opinion that Tokyo Dave is in Japan, sees what is happening in that Market, and share that infor with us honestly. Thanks Dave for you assessment of the Japanese Market.

Like you said to those who are: “riding a great wave” great for you, but like all waves they hit a beach eventually and disappear.
 
"status"

The "Japanese Market" that a few are lucky enough to be able to get into is the high end group that is more worried about face and status than money. They pay totally ridiculous prices for many things and are proud of the amounts they pay for things. I knew of someone selling high end electrical and audio cables, the price many years ago was $250 or so base price and $100 a foot. His main market was the Japanese status market.

Hu


BarenbruggeCues said:
Charlie..........if I knew I wouldn't be asking.
Click to expand...
 
Tokyo-dave said:
The only guy buying cues in Japan is Lucky. Most all the other dealers Cosmo, ER Sports, TPCC, NewArt, and others haven't updated stock in ages. Although cues don't sell in numbers near as much as they did about 4 years ago, when the do sell, they're still sadly overpriced. From time to time, I'll get my hands on a good deal, and buy a higher end cue from the states and sell it here in Japan, but those numbers have greatly decreased. I could still bring close to $5,000 for an average JW, but more than likely, I'll have to hold on to it for 6 months to a year before I find a buyer.
Cogs are now available in the USA, DP is punching out cues like rabbits in heat on fleaby. Two very good examples of the effects of the recent slowdown in the Japanese cue market. I don't blame the Black Boars, Showmans, Prewitts, and others for their great deals with lucky. Probably great business moves. They're getting prices for their cues that are impossible anywhere else and they're riding a great wave. I say to ride it as long as you can, and to continue to make a great product, because eventually even Lucky is gonna have to slow down, and those cue makers are going to have to return to the US market where the consumer isn't easily convinced that a $5,000 cue is going to make you a world champion.
I would guess that there are close to 200 brand new Mike Sigel cues lying in storage here in Japan with no hope of ever making a return for their sorry dealers that are now stuck with them.
dave
Click to expand...

Great post, thanks!
 
I have had several of the buyers from Japan say the high end cue market is way down. This means the cues they are having to pay $1000 and more here to resale there are not moving very well. They did say the stuff they can get for around $500 here is still moving okay but not great.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
One thing about japanese is that they are fiercely patriotic, AND extremely brand conscious.. The cue market took a beating probably becos of the lack of top japanese players taking the winners podium in recent WPCs...

The drying of the japanese market dont really have much to do with the economy, they are in Deflation...the japanese arent just spending more but they still do have wads of cash..

PS: Mr Barenbrugge, i do find u a bit too straight talking... that wont really go down well with japanese, who are a different kettle of fish.. then again why would i know consider i worked in Japan Radio Company...

Anyway, japanese are very particular on quality, so that says a lot on your cues..

Bgrds
Raist
 
Man, I almost hate to touch this one. But, I really have no problem with people making smart business decisions. However, cuemakers who have, over many years, built their craft and reputation by building cues for American players and then start building exclusively for the overseas trade do a disservice to the players that have made them successful. Don't take this as a personal affront, your work looks very nice, though I'm just not a Butterfly cue guy. My point is that, If I had a cue made by someone, and then either needed repairs or another cue and the cuemaker wouldn't build it or take care of his product due to "The Japanese" market, I would go elsewhere and not do business with him again.
 
dogginda9 said:
Dave,
Maybe I'm just tired or something, but it seems to me that you are coming across more and more like an ass each time you post. You initially handled things well, but then you can't seem to let anything go. And why this post? Are you feeling your oats because you have a sweet business deal and now you want to talk some trash? This "question" that you post seems to be dripping with sarcasm. I could be wrong, but I get a strange vibe about this. Tomorrow when I get up, I'll read this again and maybe I'll have a different take on things. Maybe it will sound different to me then. Who knows.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think that if everyone were as dry as half of the posters here, it would be a highly boring site.

He's not being an ass at all, he is conveying his opinion and looking for others.
 
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