When will we finally ditch 9-ball?

Celtic

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
It is evident the game does not have the difficulty to continue as the proffesional game of choice. The break has shown to have many issues and many top players have run massive numbers of racks out in a row giving sets a very one sided feel regardless of how the other player might be shooting. Eventually 9-ball will go the way of straight pool. It will slowly lose ground in favour of another game that requires more talent, has a less predictable break, and requires a more complete skill set of shots to be successful.

So why are we all holding on? I think people are scared to try anything new, we have a game in 9-ball that is established, people know the rules, the public sort of knows the game now, and we do not want to stir up the pot and lose what ground we gained with 9-ball to date. The problem is 9-ball is not the game that will make pool what we all want it to be, it is dated, it is too easy for the top pros, it has break issues with the sardo, it is very repetitive due to the pros playing it well enough that you rarely see them out of shape. Instead of taking the pro active approach we could be creating, and releasing a new game that can become the new pro standard, a game that becomes pool, embodying the entire gambit of skills.

There are games out there that could replace 9-ball as a game, 10-ball is one of them. 10-ball does not have the same breaking issues of 9-ball, and that one extra ball makes stringing multiple racks alot more difficult for even the top players. It is a game that creates more of a sparring feel to matches then 9-ball. There is also the possibility of a modified 15 ball rotation game where a person gets a point per a ball or perhaps 1-5 points in 3 groups. A 15 ball rotation hybrid created for pro pool would bring back all the balls in a rack into play and this I feel is one major issue people have with 9-ball, leaving 6 of the balls in a rack unused it seems odd to the general public who do not understand or totally accept the game.

Long story short, we are at a time in pool right now where we are seeing the problems of the game we play. We are at the point where straight pool was years ago when it started losing ground to 9-ball and it became apparent it was not going to be the pro game that could lead the sport. We can sit here for the next 20 years and watch the game slowly lose favour, fighting to keep it alive on life support for as long as possible. Or we can be proactive and decide we are not going to sit back and watch the sport slowly lose ground the next 20 years and finally create or adopt a new game when 9-ball has finally drawn its last breath. The option that we act now is the one that leaves us in a far better position in the future.
 
Are you talking about the 9-ball being the professional's game of choice or the tv networks game of choice or being the standard game for tournaments?

For TV networks, it is the best game (IMO) cause of the fast pace of 9-ball, and if time is short they only need to cut some games. Not like One Pocket, Straight Pool and 15 ball Rotation where it takes a lot of time (most of the time) to end and it would be kinda hard to follow the game if they would "cut" some of the shots. But I think they can experiment with 10 ball.

For tournaments I think 9-ball is the basketball of pool it draws a lot of spectators cause it has good pocketing and cue ball control shot after shot (for the most part of it). IMO majority of pool players play 9 or 8 ball on practice or tournaments cause it does not have a lot of complex rules it's more of "keep on pocketing balls" type of game which makes it fun to play it. In my personal opinion it is the fun part that I like, win or loose (although winning makes it more fun). If a tournament's choice of game is not 9 or 8 ball most of your "regular" pool players would probably not play cause it takes a long time or it would be hard for them to adjust and win. Now, if you always lose, is it fun? Most of the regular pool player can't put in a lot of time to practice a different game beside 9 or 9 ball.

For the professional pool player, I think it does not matter, it's just what type of game they think they would have a chance of playing good against their opponent. A lot of pros also play one pocket, 15 Ball Rotaition and 10 ball.

Personally;
When I feel like having fun I play 9 ball
When I feel like challenging my mind I play one pocket.
When I feel like using every aspect of the game I play 15 ball rotation
When I feel like experimenting I play 10 ball
When I feel like frustrating myself I play billiards
 
Eight Ball is the Answer

Celtic said:
It is evident the game does not have the difficulty to continue as the proffesional game of choice. The break has shown to have many issues and many top players have run massive numbers of racks out in a row giving sets a very one sided feel regardless of how the other player might be shooting. Eventually 9-ball will go the way of straight pool. It will slowly lose ground in favour of another game that requires more talent, has a less predictable break, and requires a more complete skill set of shots to be successful.

So why are we all holding on? I think people are scared to try anything new, we have a game in 9-ball that is established, people know the rules, the public sort of knows the game now, and we do not want to stir up the pot and lose what ground we gained with 9-ball to date. The problem is 9-ball is not the game that will make pool what we all want it to be, it is dated, it is too easy for the top pros, it has break issues with the sardo, it is very repetitive due to the pros playing it well enough that you rarely see them out of shape. Instead of taking the pro active approach we could be creating, and releasing a new game that can become the new pro standard, a game that becomes pool, embodying the entire gambit of skills.

There are games out there that could replace 9-ball as a game, 10-ball is one of them. 10-ball does not have the same breaking issues of 9-ball, and that one extra ball makes stringing multiple racks alot more difficult for even the top players. It is a game that creates more of a sparring feel to matches then 9-ball. There is also the possibility of a modified 15 ball rotation game where a person gets a point per a ball or perhaps 1-5 points in 3 groups. A 15 ball rotation hybrid created for pro pool would bring back all the balls in a rack into play and this I feel is one major issue people have with 9-ball, leaving 6 of the balls in a rack unused it seems odd to the general public who do not understand or totally accept the game.

Long story short, we are at a time in pool right now where we are seeing the problems of the game we play. We are at the point where straight pool was years ago when it started losing ground to 9-ball and it became apparent it was not going to be the pro game that could lead the sport. We can sit here for the next 20 years and watch the game slowly lose favour, fighting to keep it alive on life support for as long as possible. Or we can be proactive and decide we are not going to sit back and watch the sport slowly lose ground the next 20 years and finally create or adopt a new game when 9-ball has finally drawn its last breath. The option that we act now is the one that leaves us in a far better position in the future.
Click to expand...

Take a deep bow, Celtic, for a great post.

Still, I doubt ten ball is the answer. The PBT tried it for a year, 1998 if memory serves, with mixed results. I agree that it takes some of the break factor out (Archer had his worst year as a pro) but it has most of the same limitations as nine-ball. Nine ball embodies less than the entire gambit of skills, and even moreso when jump cues are allowed, reducing the penalty for poor position play and devaluing defensive play.

Though I continue to believe that straight pool is the game that provides the greatest and fairest test of skills, I don't think it would serve our sport to switch to it becasue it's too obscure.

It's a long overdue decision, but the pros should play eight ball, the game everyone knows. When it is said that over 40 million play pool, it is never noted that over 90% of them know only game and that would be eight ball. Eight ball is clearly not the best test of skills, but it's a good test, and playng the one game that tens of millions play and want to improve at would make a whole lot of sense. Why should the average eight ball player relate to Strickland, Archer, Reyes, Fisher or Corr? Few of them have ever seen any of these stars play their game.

Even the casual pool player fiddles with trick shots, and is, in my opinion, is more likely to relate to Trick Shot Magic than nine-ball. Pro pool is leaving most of the game's participants behind by playing a game that most of them could care less about.

I watch Piazza and A-Rod because they play baseball, a game I tried as a youth and, consequently, came to appreciate the difficulty of. I watch Tiger and Mickelson because they play a game I have played and have come to appreciate the difficulty of. If Major League baseball switched to fast-pitch softball and the PGA switched to pitch and putt, i suspect al four of these would still succeed, but I stop watching. Those games, though very similar to the games I've played, are not the games I've played so I'm not very interested.

The fans matter most, and they'll watch the best in anything when the best play a game they've tried. Most Amercians have tried their luck at baseball, football, and tennis, and though few have developed a high level of proficiency, most have played enough of those games to understand them well. That's why we enjoy watching the best in those sports, because they succeed in the very games we have been tried and failed to become proficient at.

Some sports don't have the potential to draw millions. How many of us can really relate to "the world's strongest man competition"? It's somewhat entertaining, but because it entails people competing in things most of us never get around to trying, it's potential is limited, and the same is true of nine ball.

If the pros ever switch to eight ball, they'll develop a much greater following.
 
Only one problem with 8 ball

The thing with 9 ball is that practically everyone everywhere plays by the same set of rules.

In 8 ball, we could be here until Christmas posting all the different 'house rule' variations.

Agree that if pool is to become big, 8 ball has to be the way to go.
 
The game you are looking for already excist: SNOOKER! :p

No Just kidding:

10 Ball is the future. With no safeties and no jumps.
And with the RING-GAME!!!
 
I vote for 4 man rotation- 1 point per ball/ all balls spot- treat fouls like ring game: incoming has choice to make fouling player re-fire/ no jumps.

Play to 100- 300 points. Perhaps a round-robin format for tourneys...who's got a week?!

-pigy
 
berry said:
The game you are looking for already excist: SNOOKER! :p

No Just kidding:

10 Ball is the future. With no safeties and no jumps.
And with the RING-GAME!!!
Click to expand...


Why would anyone want to get rid of safeties??????
I get as excited over a good safety as I do a difficult shot.
No jumps? Why? Can't jump?
 
I don't think that the length of the game is an issue for TV. If it is shown on ESPN the game will be edited due to time constraints and all you will see anyways is a ball rolling into the pocket from the pocket cam. So it doesn't matter what game is being shown ESPN will ruin it. What pool needs is good producers and commentators.

It is more exciting to watch curling and darts than pool. During the winter olympics the luge and tobbagan were made interesting and exciting because of the commentators that were used by the CBC (Canadian Station, I live close to the border). The same event appeared dull and boring on the US station.
 
I find 9-ball entertaining (although I'm much more a snookerfan).
I would like to see some rulechanges though. Alternate break for sure. Winner breaks in 9-ball is the same as having winner serves in tennis on a fast court. The lag gets way to important.

Getting a game for 9-ball on the break is also bad imho. You can't rule out all lucky strokes in pool but this one should and could be easily avoided. I also would like to see 'call shot' in 9-ball like in 8-ball to avoid even more flukes.

On another note. For T.V the coloring of the balls is not good. Its gotten better in the matchroom events (don't know if those tv-sets are used elsewhere)with the pink 4-ball and brown 7-ball, but why didn't they also correct the other problems? 2 & 8: the 2-ball is to dark. Lighter blue (like in snooker) could work? 1 & 9 also. Maybe the line dividing yellow/white on the 9-ball could be marked with a thick black line or something)

my 2 quick cents and excuse my english.
 
I like to lean towards the rotation single point/ball as well. Races to 60 points or so in a normal tourney. Fouls give your opponent a point and he has the option of making ya shoot again so defence can be a good offense. No jump cues allowed to bring kicking skill and full length cue jumps into the game. I would also make it called ball, only on breaks does any ball count. That is the game I would like to see pro's battle it out on.

The problem I have with 8-ball is the multiple options it offers, missing shape often gives you other ways to get out and the pro's eat 8-ball up. Plus it is a ERO or lose game at the top amatuer level, after watching pro's play for a while I would be sick of the total offense of it where you run out or lose. Then there is the table issue, yeah we all know 8-ball but most 8-ball is played on 3 1/2 x 7 bar boxes, I do not want to see the pro's player a tour on those pieces of junk, once you put 8-ball on 9-foots it is not the game most people play. I dont think 8-ball would be any better then 9-ball for challenging the players either, I have been known to ERO 60% of my racks off the break, someone at the pro level could string 8-ball racks on a 9-foot table as much if not more then 9-ball.
 
sjm said:
...

If the pros ever switch to eight ball, they'll develop a much greater following.
Click to expand...

I don't know this is true. Several years ago accu-stats had it's first ANNUAL 8-ball invitational championship, they never had the second annual. I presume that this must be because the tapes just didn't sell (though I bought 1 of almost all of them) and Pat Fleming determined there wasn't fan interest. 8-ball is my preferred game and I enjoyed watching the tapes, but I could understand why it wouldn't hold most fans' interest. Basically it broke down this way in almost every game, if the breaker pocketed a ball he ran out, if he didn't his opponent ran out. The pros are just too good for 8-ball.
 
I agree with the previous post. I am a very good room player and when I match up with another very good room player playing eight ball, the winner 95% of the time is the benefactor of the break. That number would only be higher for the pros and thus someone like Johnny Archer would clean up with his break. I watched him run out a match in eight ball once and it looked rediculously (sp.) easy. No test for the pros...I play all the games and maybe one pocket would be the best test of all skills and imagination
 
How about a Hybrid 8-ball game. Something that everyone could understand, since it is 8-ball after all, but a slight rule modification for the Pro's to limit the number of 1 or 2 inning games. THE IDEA: Make each of them run thier ball in rotation. The only difficulty in 9-ball is running the ball in rotation, forcing you to get nearly perfect shape on nearly every shot. Try putting 6 obstacles and making them run 8-balls in rotation, maybe even spot up balls pocketed on the break. TV Viewers could easily relate, because it is essentially the same game they know and love, and Pool fans would love it because it lends itself to interesting shots and lock up safeties. The more i think about it the more it excites me. The only problem i could think of is it being too difficult and slowing the game down to a one-pocket-esque pace. Think of all the safety options with six 'blocker balls' out there. I think you would get to see some exciting 6-rail kicks and Massive Mass-eh-s. (hehe dont know how to put that little squigly above the E)

Any other ideas? This is the game i wanna see the pros playing. The Key is to not waiver too far from what John Q Public already knows and loves.
 
Last edited:
BazookaJoe said:
Why would anyone want to get rid of safeties??????
I get as excited over a good safety as I do a difficult shot.
No jumps? Why? Can't jump?
Click to expand...

Come on now Joe. Anyone can jump with a shorty. It takes skill to jump with a full length cue.
 
What do people actually think about 1 point/ball rotation? Seems like a no brainer, hard pro worthy game, score keeping remenisent of straight pool, brings all the aspects of pool into play, uses all the balls of a rack, makes a good hard break important, easy for the public to learn, ect.

It has been mentioned before, I think it is the best solution and game for us to be looking at or something close to it. Alot of people just plain ignored it or did not comment on it. Does anyone actually see any real problems with it as the game? Why bother continuing to discuss 8-ball when it is clear that game has faults when another game is sitting right there that is the answer and just gets ignored? This is a major problem, good ideas come for pool, nobody pays attention or comments, and the good ideas end up on page 20 of a message board going no good for anyone and we remain as we are now with a problem.
 
fxskater said:
How about a Hybrid 8-ball game. Something that everyone could understand, since it is 8-ball after all, but a slight rule modification for the Pro's to limit the number of 1 or 2 inning games. THE IDEA: Make each of them run thier ball in rotation. The only difficulty in 9-ball is running the ball in rotation, forcing you to get nearly perfect shape on nearly every shot. Try putting 6 obstacles and making them run 8-balls in rotation, maybe even spot up balls pocketed on the break. TV Viewers could easily relate, because it is essentially the same game they know and love, and Pool fans would love it because it lends itself to interesting shots and lock up safeties. The more i think about it the more it excites me. The only problem i could think of is it being too difficult and slowing the game down to a one-pocket-esque pace. Think of all the safety options with six 'blocker balls' out there. I think you would get to see some exciting 6-rail kicks and Massive Mass-eh-s. (hehe dont know how to put that little squigly above the E)

Any other ideas? This is the game i wanna see the pros playing. The Key is to not waiver too far from what John Q Public already knows and loves.
Click to expand...

Excellent idea!!! If the pros played 8 ball but had to sink them numerically that'd be a whole different game! I have played pool this way to keep if fun for some of my friends who don't play pool, I had to play 1-7 or 15-9 numerically and they just shoot. Thats also a good way to give weight for those gamblers. This new form of 8-ball (which Im sure they'd call XTREME!!!, just like everything else these days) would challange even the best players, especially on a 9ft table. But ESPN would screw it up somehow :(

dday
 
Celtic said:
What do people actually think about 1 point/ball rotation? Seems like a no brainer, hard pro worthy game, score keeping remenisent of straight pool, brings all the aspects of pool into play, uses all the balls of a rack, makes a good hard break important, easy for the public to learn, ect.

It has been mentioned before, I think it is the best solution and game for us to be looking at or something close to it. Alot of people just plain ignored it or did not comment on it. Does anyone actually see any real problems with it as the game? Why bother continuing to discuss 8-ball when it is clear that game has faults when another game is sitting right there that is the answer and just gets ignored? This is a major problem, good ideas come for pool, nobody pays attention or comments, and the good ideas end up on page 20 of a message board going no good for anyone and we remain as we are now with a problem.
Click to expand...

What about the time? How many balls/points wins? Are you refering to a straight pool type game? Do you meen playing 1-15 numerically, maybe Im lost.

dday
 
Game of choice

Well this is a thread.....

Have you all ever considered against what competition (in terms of sports) pool is in? How interesting is it for a non player to see someone running a rack or in this case worse racks? In comparison to all the action sports, and the rest of the televised programms pool seems to be boring. Only if you are a player (amateur or ball banger) you can understand what it takes to make it look so easy.

My 2cents plan of approach to pool marketing:

1. Step
Address the 40 Million players directly. Build the sport around the personality of the Pro's. Make a promotion sort of like boxing. You have to build up tension like in a team sport. Make people to vow for theire personal favorite.

2. If you then televise a match have an intro like before a big fight like" watch Earl The Havoc of Pool taking on the Magician (like Matchroom does). Show spectacular scenes and shots of the opponents before the match starts.

3. Stick to 9 Ball but make it call pocket! It is the most spectacular game for the outsiders. Use good and knowledgable commentators like Billy Incardona or Grady.

This can be a first step to the attract sponsors to get mor money involved. Pool will never be a real professional sport if the price money is an amateurs. And last but not least this needs professional management, don't let players run the show. This has never worked out so far....

PS: PLease don't mind my English. I am a foreigner...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top