When you're opponent pulls a number on you!

Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
I have been put into sticky situations sometimes when my opponents pulled a number on me. These 2 situations happened to me very recently.

I was playing a young friend who is a good player, and we were playing a race to 4 in 8 ball. I won the first 3 games, and in the 4th game, my opponent won, and he said "nice match". I said "what do you mean nice match, that's the first game you won." He said, "No, it was hill-to-hill, and I won".

I was dumbfounded, so I went to the TD, and told her the situation, and it was at this time, I noticed my opponent was more than just a little drunk.
The TD told one of the owners the situation, and they disappeared for a lttle bit, and then returned and talked to both of us. They said they had reviewed the tape (I hadn't even noticed they had cameras on the tables), and that I was correct, it was game count 3-1 in my favor.

My opponent accepted this, and even forfeited the rest of the match to me. On an afternote, I saw him a week later, and talked to him (we had been friends for some time), and he said he couldn't hardly remember what had happened and that he was blitzed that night. We laughed about it and it ended on a good note, but it just goes to show you some people can be a lot drunker than they might first appear to be.

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The second incident rubs me the wrong way, and sticks in my crawl. I was playing an opponent that has been an adversary for a few years. We had somewhat of a history, since shortly after we first met, we played in another friend's basement, with me giving him the 7 ball, and I won 2 bags of sand from him, and he airballed me for the last 600 of it. That left things in a touchy situation for a few years, but I justed marked it off.

He has gotten quite a bit better in the last few years, but not as good as he thinks he is, and he keeps dogging me to play for something. Meanwhile, I don't gamble much any more, and when I play in tournaments, I do not like to play money games before or during a tournament. Anyway, we go back and forth, and the match is hill-to-hill in a race to 4 8 ball, with me breaking the last game. I hadn't been breaking well that night, and so I concentrated on getting a good break the last game. I was using the 2nd ball break that night, and I hit the balls good that game, making 3 balls with a wide open table that I was pretty sure I could get out.

Suddenly, he comes running up to the table, and says I racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row, and not the 3rd. I was dumbfounded once again because I have been playing 50 years, and have NEVER racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row. We argued for a minute, and then I just agreed to rerack and break again. I broke again with lessor results than the 1st break, and he made a mistake on trying a safety late in the game, and I got out for the win.
I must admit, I felt like justice had prevailed in this situation because I felt he had tried to pull one on me.

Do things like this ever happen to you? I know things happen in bars all the time because they are ignorant of Pool etiquette, but rarely do they happen in a Pool room where these happened to me.
 
I got a chuckle on your first story. When 1 game = 4 that is strong! It sounds like it was an accident and he was very drunk and it was just a drunk mistake.

I've played on and off for 14 years and have seen a lot of things go on from people doing a hard to tell sh*t rack unless you are paying close attention to marking 2 games when they win 1 and so forth. There are some people who have integrity but a lot of pool players are cheats (go figure). I don't gamble often, but when I do I make sure I don't drink very much so I can pay attention to everything going on in our match. I will be interested in seeing more stories from others here.
 
If your opponent has a problem with your rack, they should state it before you break. Tough sh1t afterwards.

/just sayin'

-s
 
The first situation happens ALL the time in bar tournaments. I have to say that's happened to me almost once a tournament and we were using quarters under the rail that indicated the games won. There were even people watching and my opponent would still insist they had the games. If feels like you've gone to crazy town especially when a drunk or otherwise shady onlooker seconds the false claim. Gotta love it. Glad to hear they had cameras there.


The second situation is just screwed up, if you did place the ball in the wrong place he should have said something before you even broke the balls to start the game and if you didn't then he's just a shady loser clawing at anything to try to get over on you.
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Here's one of mine....I played in a tournament at the Break in Greeley and played someone I knew fairly well who was a bit of a trouble maker when he was drunk and the nicest guy when he wasn't. I was on the hill in a race to 6 in 9ball and he had 2. The match took over an hour and a half as he progressively got more drunk, took forever on every shot as he wanted to discuss how I can't miss and he shouldn't be getting any shots or games from me. He was just about ready to pick a fight at this point. I made the nine ball on my final game, scratched in the side and tried to give him the game as it was his. He started talking loudly, then yelling about how I missed that on purpose because I felt sorry for him and I kept telling him how it was just a damn scratch on my shot. It was not on purpose, I was just off but he wouldn't let it end until I shot it again. I was so off I tried again and screwed up even worse. He kept insisting I shoot the shot over and over again until I make it while he was getting progressively angrier. When I finally made the shot he calmly with a sort of happy relieved tone said there it is then he lost it, started yelling that's what you should have done in the first place and resumed asserting that because I didn't make it the first time that I was messing with him in some way or still felt sorry for him. What the hell was I suppose to do..Not ever miss a f'n shot! He got 86'd over his outburst and I got to play in the finals. Alcohol is a hell of a drug!
 
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I think we have all had people try stuff like that, or tried other things.

One time that comes to mind is when I jumped over a ball to pocket another ball. The guy told me first the jump was illegal, and then tried telling me my jump cue was illegal.

Another time a guy tried to tell me that I double hit the cue ball with my stick. It was impossible because I drew the cue ball like 12" down the table, but I wasn't going to get into a fight. So he took ball in hand and then when it was my turn again I just ran out on him.

I always have idiots try to tell me the rack is done wrong, and unfortunately I am darn good at racking. I rack them right every time and when I play good players they never complain about my rack. This guy was just an idiot because he couldn't break. When he racked of course it was a slug rack and I wasn't surprised.

Blow it off and keep on going! It's idiots like them that keep people from enjoying the game and getting it to be even more popular.
 
Neil said:
Yeah, I've had it happen too. I was playing a guy for the cash, and he left me in a very tricky spot. I had to reach over the two ball to masse' the cb to make the one. I had to thread the cb between two other balls, then take the spin to make the one. I pulled it off perfectly, made the one, and the cb spun back to get in a very small area for the perfect position on the two. One of those shots you really wish you had on film.

The cb and the two were a couple inches apart initially. Reaching over the two, I felt my hand barely touch the two. I told him afterwards that I touched the two, but it didn't move. (we were playing cb fouls only) He then promptly picks up the two ball, and places it directly across the cb on the rail.

I asked him what the heck he was doing, and he says that because I touched it, he can put it where he wants to! After calmly trying to explain the rules to him, it was obvious he was trying to put a move on me, so we quit the game. I was on the hill at the time, and he said I owed him because I forfeited. I then told him he owed me because he forfeited with his bad sportsmanship and we left it at that. Haven't played him since.

Played another guy one time that wasn't too bright. I knew he was a cheater, but wanted to stick it to him anyways. We played 14.1 to 50 points. At the end of the FIRST rack, he has the score at 16-9 him! I quit him right there and told him off in front of everyone, and pointed out how stupid he was to sham the score in the first rack, and what everyone there could expect from him if they ever played him.

Had another guy on time that I played almost daily for about a year or two. I knew he was a wannabe pimp, a thief, and a drug dealer and addict. But, up to this point, he was always fair in the pool games. We were playing on a Valley bar box. Anyone familiar with a Valley knows that the ball return makes a fair amount of noise.

Well, I missed the 5 ball and walk back to my chair. When I get to my chair, I turn around and look at the table. He is now shooting at the 8. I immediately realized that I had not heard the 5, let alone the 6 or 7 balls go down. I looked at him, and he has this huge bulge in his pockets! I stopped him from shooting, and asked him what the heck he was doing. He gets this lost look on his face, and asks me what I'm talking about. So, I asked him why he had 5 balls in his pants, and wondered if he wanted to keep two of them in there for future use.

He looks in his pocket, and tries to act surprised when he finds 3 pool balls in there! I just called him a dumbass, and told him I won that game, and there wasn't going to be any argument about it. He racked them up and never had another problem with him after that.
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I've also had someone intentionally move a ball on me after a ball foul while playing some 9ball which only had cue ball fouls. The only difference is that he fouled the ball and then picked it up and placed it himself. He placed the ball no where near where it was when he struck it and I had almost no shot when coming to the table. I didn't want to let it slide as he was clearly trying to cheat and the owner/TD director intervened but instead of ruling on it as part of the game he banned me from his pool room for two weeks...LOL WTF? Two weeks later I took the tournament win and decisively cut that guy out in the first round. Favoritism is a hell of a thing too...but payback is a biznitch!

Nice 14.1 rack score..Have had that happen too. Clearly the idea that you can't get more than 14 points on a rack and shouldn't ever have a score like that on the first one is lost on some people.

Now the valley table story! I just about spit my drink all over my keyboard and am still laughing!!! Priceless!
 
Once upon a time, a top player was playing the 12 ball ghost and he was up two games to zero. The third game he breaks, makes a ball and is shooting on the one ball, makes it, then realizes that he made the 12 ball on the break. The other bettor says, the 12 ball spots back up when you are playing the ghost. Long story short: All best were pulled down.

What say you? Does the 12 ball on the break count for the guy playing the ghost? What about combos after the break or during the game?
 
Snapshot9 said:
...Suddenly, he comes running up to the table, and says I racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row, and not the 3rd. I was dumbfounded once again because I have been playing 50 years, and have NEVER racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row...
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Chess has this great rule, to wit, "if you set the board up wrong, and neither player notices before the first move, you play the game that way." One time I played a tournament game with my king and queen switched. Neither of us noticed until the fifth move, when the piece that was supposed to be my king all of a sudden flew across the board to snap up his undefended bishop. We consulted with the TD, and sure enough I was legal and he was basically screwed, since he'd spent the last five moves trying to checkmate my queen!

I say if you put the 8 ball in the wrong spot and he doesn't stop you before the break, that's his problem, not yours.

Here's an actual pool story:------------------------

My wife's playing a match where the rule on the break is either 4 balls have to hit a rail or you have to make a ball. So my wife breaks, the rack splits decently enough to be runnable but almost nothing hits a rail. Her opponent walks back over to the table, grabs the triangle, and starts reracking, not realizing that one of the balls had dropped in the corner. So, after a legal break ('cause she made the ball) he screws up the layout of the table. Talked to the TD, he concedes the rack, and now he's reracking and she's on the hill. :-) good times!
 
Snapshot9 said:
[...]
Anyway, we go back and forth, and the match is hill-to-hill in a race to 4 8 ball, with me breaking the last game. I hadn't been breaking well that night, and so I concentrated on getting a good break the last game. I was using the 2nd ball break that night, and I hit the balls good that game, making 3 balls with a wide open table that I was pretty sure I could get out.

Suddenly, he comes running up to the table, and says I racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row, and not the 3rd. I was dumbfounded once again because I have been playing 50 years, and have NEVER racked the 8 ball in the 2nd row. We argued for a minute, and then I just agreed to rerack and break again. I broke again with lessor results than the 1st break, and he made a mistake on trying a safety late in the game, and I got out for the win.
I must admit, I felt like justice had prevailed in this situation because I felt he had tried to pull one on me.

Do things like this ever happen to you? I know things happen in bars all the time because they are ignorant of Pool etiquette, but rarely do they happen in a Pool room where these happened to me.
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Yup, I've had that happen to me. Back when the Danbury Boston Billiards used to be around, I used to play in (as well as manage on other-than-playing nights) the 8-ball leagues there. I actually had several opponents do this to me, when later, it was discovered that the ball the opponent "thought was the 8-ball" that was in the second or fourth row of balls, was actually the 7-ball (dark maroon -- which gets darker as the balls age). I even had to re-rack games where I pocketed the 8-ball and the 7-ball on the break (normally a win), but because we couldn't definitively tell which ball was where in the rack, we had to re-rack. That's where I wished we had "the video tape" to go back to (the OP was lucky in this regard). I discovered later that this is actually a TACTIC used by opponents to thwart golden breaks (later I found out they were ex-APA players, that presumably were kicked out of the APA for antics like this, but not after first learning and honing their "tricks of the trade" there).

It's a shame, but you have to watch out for opportunistic and devious human nature. Video helps, but also some sharp-eyed (and lucid, even when drinking) teammates are your first line of defense in these matters.

-Sean
 
The one that sticks with me the most was done to me around 18 years ago...

I was playing in a 9ball tournament race to 9. King of the Mountain 1993-4ish. At 3-3 I run off several wins in a row to go up 6-3... My opponent wins the next game and marks his game on my 6 to make it 7-3 and goes about trying to tell me that was his score.... I go grab the TD and explain the deal but my opponent has a buddy backing him up so I lose the argument... I also lose the match 9-8 after crawling back from the 3 games on his side....

I still see the guy and consider him a cheat 18 years later... A good move may be good for decades... I have zero interest in playing the first game with him even today regardless of how or what he would want to play for..
 
and you said youve never had lessons

Look at it as a cheep lesson. We've all been through this. If its happens to you again then your a fool. In chicago we handle theese thing a little different. Its a shame that there are still fools out there trying shit like that.
 
Neil said:
Yeah, I've had it happen too. I was playing a guy for the cash, and he left me in a very tricky spot. I had to reach over the two ball to masse' the cb to make the one. I had to thread the cb between two other balls, then take the spin to make the one. I pulled it off perfectly, made the one, and the cb spun back to get in a very small area for the perfect position on the two. One of those shots you really wish you had on film.

The cb and the two were a couple inches apart initially. Reaching over the two, I felt my hand barely touch the two. I told him afterwards that I touched the two, but it didn't move. (we were playing cb fouls only) He then promptly picks up the two ball, and places it directly across the cb on the rail.

I asked him what the heck he was doing, and he says that because I touched it, he can put it where he wants to! After calmly trying to explain the rules to him, it was obvious he was trying to put a move on me, so we quit the game. I was on the hill at the time, and he said I owed him because I forfeited. I then told him he owed me because he forfeited with his bad sportsmanship and we left it at that. Haven't played him since.

Played another guy one time that wasn't too bright. I knew he was a cheater, but wanted to stick it to him anyways. We played 14.1 to 50 points. At the end of the FIRST rack, he has the score at 16-9 him! I quit him right there and told him off in front of everyone, and pointed out how stupid he was to sham the score in the first rack, and what everyone there could expect from him if they ever played him.

Had another guy on time that I played almost daily for about a year or two. I knew he was a wannabe pimp, a thief, and a drug dealer and addict. But, up to this point, he was always fair in the pool games. We were playing on a Valley bar box. Anyone familiar with a Valley knows that the ball return makes a fair amount of noise.

Well, I missed the 5 ball and walk back to my chair. When I get to my chair, I turn around and look at the table. He is now shooting at the 8. I immediately realized that I had not heard the 5, let alone the 6 or 7 balls go down. I looked at him, and he has this huge bulge in his pockets! I stopped him from shooting, and asked him what the heck he was doing. He gets this lost look on his face, and asks me what I'm talking about. So, I asked him why he had 5 balls in his pants, and wondered if he wanted to keep two of them in there for future use.

He looks in his pocket, and tries to act surprised when he finds 3 pool balls in there! I just called him a dumbass, and told him I won that game, and there wasn't going to be any argument about it. He racked them up and never had another problem with him after that.
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Thank you for this post. Those were freakin' hilarious. I really liked the 16-9 after one rack.

"What are you talking about Neil? Don't you remember I made several combinations that rack?"
 
1st situation... when going to the pool room for gambling or tournament purposes, keep pennies in your pocket to keep score or play one pocket.

2nd situation... if he didnt mention it prior to the break and you break, its his fault for not noticing. he should have had some one watching the hit.

my buddy had a situation where he was playing 9 ball and on the break, his opponent asks him to wait hes going to have someone watch the shot. So my buddy figures like why would he have someone watch the shot on the break, and he noticed before breaking he placed the 9 ball wrong on the rack.

Moves... you just gotta love'em... JK
 
We had a kid that was coming into our local room for quite some time and I had played him many many many times and seen and heard of other people playing him and he was always good for the money so most people got to the point of playing him without posting up first. Well one day we start playing at around noonish and go until the hall closed with several people watching us all night. So when the place finally closes im up 900 on him and he says...I dont have the money" I honestly wasnt suprised I didnt think a kid like him carried that much money on them so I told him he could pay me as he got it as long as it was within reason or else I would just take his custom cue (he paid 600 for) as either collateral or just call the debt square and he says he will get me the money out of savings on friday so I said ok. So then I tell him that if he pays for all the table time I would take that off the debt, I should have known right then something bad was going to happen because he didnt even have enough money for his half of the table time so I had to pay it all anyway. Well friday comes and no word from him and nobody has seen him so sunday I for some reason decided to go to a tournament I NEVER went to and suprise suprise guess whos there. So he said he wanted a chance to get his money back at 100 a game and I told him if he got to 1200 i was quitting and taking his cue and he agreed well he won the first game and I won the next 2 putting me up a grand and he quits me and begs me to let him keep his cue and he would pay me next week so I agreed. Well Wed leagues come around and I start getting asked how I lost so much money, I was obviously dumbfounded and asked wtf they were talking about and they said they heard I lost a bunch of money but didnt know who said it. So I see the guy that saturday and this crazy son of a ***** was telling everybody he beat me for 900 and I stiffed him and he starts barking about it in the bar where 3 of the people that watched me beat him were there and told him he was full of it. He even went as far as making an obviously totally and completely obvious fake check with no name on it, no routing number, account number, or date, also didnt even have a real signature, just scribbles and saying that i had given him a check for 900 and put a stop payment on it. The funny thing was it wasnt even a check he was trying to show everybody, it was on a piece of paper that had no outer lines like you would see on a photo copied check and he was trying to put it off like it was my check to him. Bad part is most people actually kinda believed him for awhile because why would someone go through so much trouble for that? Then he started stiffing guys left and right for big numbers several people (including my dad) for 500, one stupid guy actually let him do it twice for 800 a pop, and myself and a few others for at least a grand. The owner finally told him it was time he quit coming around.
 
interesting but I was just an innocent bystander

A few years ago I was watching a barbox eightball tournament with a pretty nice purse and calcutta. A very well known road player and barbox monster over rolled shape a little bit and had to thin cut a ball out of a cluster of other balls, both his and his opponent's. He moved three or four balls around and got shape perfectly for his next shot. I watched carefully to see what his reaction would be when he got to the ball he had supposedly already pocketed once. Never batted an eye, just finished his run!

I don't know if he was so focused on getting shape that he genuinely didn't notice that the object ball didn't fall, seems like he would remember he had just shot the ball a couple shots ago when he was lining up on it again. Move or accident it worked out pretty well for him and I'm always a little skeptical of those kind of mistakes.

Common move in the bars was adjusting ball position with the bridge hand or arm tying up your balls or moving theirs just enough it wasn't tied up. I got pretty good at it myself in retaliation and used to sometimes proclaim myself the best left handed pool player in the place!

Hu
 
The Renfro said:
The one that sticks with me the most was done to me around 18 years ago...

I was playing in a 9ball tournament race to 9. King of the Mountain 1993-4ish. At 3-3 I run off several wins in a row to go up 6-3... My opponent wins the next game and marks his game on my 6 to make it 7-3 and goes about trying to tell me that was his score.... I go grab the TD and explain the deal but my opponent has a buddy backing him up so I lose the argument... I also lose the match 9-8 after crawling back from the 3 games on his side....

I still see the guy and consider him a cheat 18 years later... A good move may be good for decades... I have zero interest in playing the first game with him even today regardless of how or what he would want to play for..
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I'm a very patient person, but have no patience for cheaters and thieves. That guy would have found me waiting by his car in the parking lot after the tournament, and he would not have liked what would have ensued thereafter.
 
After reading all of these stories, I can't help but wonder why these guys are still able to walk around. I mean, getting stiffed for hundreds, even thousands of dollars, isn't some small thing to be blown off, at least not where and how I grew up. If this crap was attempted on people I know and grew up with, it would not have ended so well.

People who "make moves" end up with stitches where I come from. Just sayin.
 
simple really

Baxter said:
After reading all of these stories, I can't help but wonder why these guys are still able to walk around. I mean, getting stiffed for hundreds, even thousands of dollars, isn't some small thing to be blown off, at least not where and how I grew up. If this crap was attempted on people I know and grew up with, it would not have ended so well.

People who "make moves" end up with stitches where I come from. Just sayin.
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The answer is simple really. The guys that resort to all kinds of silly games are almost always losers. Gambling all their cheating did was slow down how fast the cash moved across the table, it didn't usually change the end result. You can shear a sheep many times, you can only butcher it once!

Hu
 
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