That B side run in 2016…holy sh*t.
I was thinking the same.That B side run in 2016…holy sh*t.
I’m pretty sure he was down 3-0 to Chang JL in the finals too, before finding one hell of a gear.I was thinking the same.
Thats a lot of big bullies he put down.
Yea....I think factoring opponents is fair.
The past players were playing with inferior equipment in their primes. They were practically 21oz baseball bats.
Correct. And SVB was down 0-6 to Shaw in the semifinal match. Leading 9-6, Shaw scratched on the break in game 16. SVB ran out that game then broke and ran the next 4 to win the match.I’m pretty sure he was down 3-0 to Chang JL in the finals too, before finding one hell of a gear.
for overall all, best at all games, tough call: I'm leaning towards Nick myself here. Nicks stronger in 1P and Banks. Even in SP. Even in 8B. Sigel stronger in 9B. But, Nick has world championship in all five disciplines. Does anyone else have that ?? But hey, it's all on paper. lol But I was glad to see Sigel has a US 1P title, I didn't know that. Unsure if he didn't do well at DCC or just didn't play ??Talking about all the above in their prime, It would have to come down to Sigel or Varner. I'd probably give a slight edge to Mike. I'm sure Buddy could play Straight Pool but he rarely if ever did. I don't remember him ever playing in a major 14.1 event. Mike and Nick excelled at all those games, including Banks. Mizerak played all games at an equally high level, but he had no Bank Pool resume.
SVB = 5 time is open champion, including 3 years in a row, and 2 world pool masters championships, including the only player to ever repeat.I think he's mid tier or bottom for an American great. He is considered one of the greatest of all time due to domination but he has lost some matches he shouldn't be losing. Some say he's a choker and some say he gets coached through his listening device.
Where do you have him ranked?
For me in no partcular order:
Mosconi
Greenleaf
Strickland
Efren
Ronnie O'Sullivan
I have to agree with this assessment. Jay's list was a very good one- I cannot dispute it. But of all 8 players on Jay's list, if there were a round robin marathon tournament of say three pool disciplines- 14.1, a rotation game, and perhaps one pocket - I would put my bet on Varner to come out on top. Why you say?It's a great list. And Kudos for giving Earl his due. I know you are not his biggest fan but it doesn't change his talent.
But, I'd add one thing for Varner. I'm not sure who played all games as good as he did.
If you had to play a world series of pool that included straight pool, 9b, 8b, 1p and banks, what person would you bet who would finish with the highest score, kind of like a DCC, Master of the Table![]()
Why do people keep bringing up pocket sizes?? ALL great players would have been great on any size pockets. All you can do is play with what is being used at the time. Get ANY top player from ANY era, put them on ANY pool table and they will adjust, quickly, and play great.Records show that Shane is literally the all time best. I'm sorry for the older generations as I keep watching their games in black/white videos all the pockets are huge. They are bucket pockets.
If you consider the achievements Shane has done and his titles + the FIELD of players that are currently playing + the difficulty of the equipment. All these three things are considered then it is easy to see how good he is or even better than anyone else.
The only players who can compete with him in the all the best are in no particular order:
Efren Reyes
Earl Strickland
Mike Sigel
So my 4 list of players are those above + SVB, and I put SVB as the #1 because of his achievements and the difficulty of the field as of today.
Right, because Strickland and Sigel having to face the likes of Reyes, Hall, Varner, Archer, Hopkins, Miz, West, Martin, Mathews, DeLiberto, Allen, Rempe, Massey, etc was a walk in the park. It's a gosh damn Murderers Row. The fuking Yankees could not fade thisRecords show that Shane is literally the all time best. I'm sorry for the older generations as I keep watching their games in black/white videos all the pockets are huge. They are bucket pockets.
If you consider the achievements Shane has done and his titles + the FIELD of players that are currently playing + the difficulty of the equipment. All these three things are considered then it is easy to see how good he is or even better than anyone else.
The only players who can compete with him in the all the best are in no particular order:
Efren Reyes
Earl Strickland
Mike Sigel
So my 4 list of players are those above + SVB, and I put SVB as the #1 because of his achievements and the difficulty of the field as of today.
that's about the dumbest thing I heard any fool say... you must have posted that on purpose just to get this reaction from a bunch of people on here... completely laughable.I think he's mid tier or bottom for an American great. He is considered one of the greatest of all time due to domination but he has lost some matches he shouldn't be losing. Some say he's a choker and some say he gets coached through his listening device.
Where do you have him ranked?
For me in no partcular order:
Mosconi
Greenleaf
Strickland
Efren
Ronnie O'Sullivan
Jaden, I think you need to replace "or" with "and" and remove "either".I've come to the conclusion that you are either a massive troll, or an incredible imbecile...
Jaden
You have to remember this game doesn't pay much and players are going to concentrate on games that make them $$$. Archer and Earl both play very good 14.1 but there's ZERO money in that game. One-pocket is kind of specialized 'gaffy' game so many players don't play it much. I agree that ER is probably best all-around'r we've ever seen. Varner in his prime wasn't far behind.I believe when you are considering the GOAT you have to consider performance over all disciplines. So someone like Johnny Archer who concentrated in 9 ball cannot be considered for the GOAT ranking even though he is a great 9 ball player and very nice person. In my opinion, Efren is the GOAT. I believe Earl is the greatest 9 ball player of all time. It would be interesting to know who Earl thinks is the GOAT. I can tell you that there is not a single match that Earl did the commentary on Billiards Network that he hasn't mentioned Efren in glowing terms. I believe even though Efren was his nemesis Earl has the greatest regard for him.
agree, in the immortal words of Fast Eddie, the best is the guy with the most, right now that's Efren., but he's losing ground...You have to remember this game doesn't pay much and players are going to concentrate on games that make them $$$. Archer and Earl both play very good 14.1 but there's ZERO money in that game. One-pocket is kind of specialized 'gaffy' game so many players don't play it much. I agree that ER is probably best all-around'r we've ever seen. Varner in his prime wasn't far behind.
Shane is not even in the discussion with Efren. Reyes was the best ever one pocket player, the best ever eight ball player, one of the best ever at nine ball, highly capable at both straight pool and bank pool, and he always seemed to win when the prize money was highest, such as the IPT $500,000 first prize and two scores of over $150,000 in winning the Japan Open. His win over Earl Strickland, who was at his very peak, in a race to 120, further validates his pedigree. We may never see another one in Efren's class.Records show that Shane is literally the all time best. I'm sorry for the older generations as I keep watching their games in black/white videos all the pockets are huge. They are bucket pockets.
If you consider the achievements Shane has done and his titles + the FIELD of players that are currently playing + the difficulty of the equipment. All these three things are considered then it is easy to see how good he is or even better than anyone else.
The only players who can compete with him in the all the best are in no particular order:
Efren Reyes
Earl Strickland
Mike Sigel
So my 4 list of players are those above + SVB, and I put SVB as the #1 because of his achievements and the difficulty of the field as of today.
With you and garczar's assessment I can't agree more actually. I am thinking more and more about Efrens' game in all-around pool table, he's one of a kind so yes I think its crazy for me to put Shane above Earl, Sigel or Efren so I will retract my previous ranking as I feel garczar's also correct that all players can adjust to pocket size. Sometimes myself I feel that I play better on tighter pocket, for some reason I just focus more. One day I switched to an easy large-bucket table and I started to miss more due to me thinking that no matter how I shot the ball, it will automatically go in. But I was wrong.Shane is not even in the discussion with Efren. Reyes was the best ever one pocket player, the best ever eight ball player, one of the best ever at nine ball, highly capable at both straight pool and bank pool, and he always seemed to win when the prize money was highest, such as the IPT $500,000 first prize and two scores of over $150,000 in winning the Japan Open. His win over Earl Strickland, who was at his very peak, in a race to 120, further validates his pedigree. We may never see another one in Efren's class.
It's no secret that I'm no fan of Earl, but I can't deny his pedigree or his resume. Like Shane, Earl also won 5 US Open 9-ball events, but unlike Shane he won 3 WPA World 9-ball Championships, and he won 10 Mosconi Cups. He won countless PBT and Camel Tour events, all of which featured large, super-tough internationally diverse fields. Obviously, I have no idea whether you saw Earl at his best, but he was famous for dismissing champions (Sigel, Varner, Hall, Bustamante) by scores like 11-1 and 11-2 on a regular basis in competition. He was the most dominant nine ball player we've ever seen. Shane doesn't measure up to Earl.
As for Sigel, I think that in the modern era, he is America's greatest player. Sigel and Mizerak were 1A and 1B as far as the latter part of the straight pool era, and Sigel and Strickland were 1A and 1B in the early part of the nine ball era. To have been so thoroughly dominant in both the straight pool era and the nine ball era is a feat that only Mike can claim (with due respect to Rempe and Varner, who also continued to excel after the straight pool era drew to a close). Had he not retired young in about 1994, I think Mike Sigel might have compared favorably with Efren as the greatest ever player, but I can't put Mike over Efren. Finally, Sigel didn't beat fields that were easier than what SVB has faced, as in Sigel's early campaign, winning a top event meant beating fields that included Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore and Joe Balsis. Yup, all twelve of them are in the BCA Hall of Fame today. Beyond that, such fields included the likes of Pete Margo, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings and other confirmed world beaters. Sigel triumphed over some of the toughest fields ever seen in pool.
Your list has the right four, but I find it impossible to put Shane over any of the other three.
I think this is a well thought out group.It's just too tough to compare the straight pool era to the nine ball era in pool.
In the straight pool era, the top five are surely Mosconi, Greenleaf, Crane, Sigel and Mizerak, but nearly all the straight poolers of that era were American. Of course, Luther Lassiter and Harold Worst may have been better than all of them if all-around play is the measure.
The nine ball era is much harder to gauge, but however you look at it, Shane's name is in the mix for greatest ever. There were two especially noteworthy crossover stars from the straight pool era in Sigel and Varner, who continued to be world beaters even when the primary pro game was changed. Each is in the conversation for greatest ever American player.
Shane's excellence at the US Open 9-ball and the Derby City Classic evidence just how great he has been on home soil. He has not fared nearly as well overseas, and in the large field, WPA sanctioned events offering the most elite fields in our sport's history (World 9-ball, China Open 9-ball, US Open 9-ball, All Japan 9-ball), he has never won an overseas title. That said, however, he has won silver at the World championships, bronze at the China Open. and bronze at the All-Japan, so he has, at times, excelled overseas even though the biggest titles have eluded him.
His name deserves to be alongside all-time legends like Sigel, Varner, and Strickland, Reyes and Pagulayan, but where he fits in the hierarchy of the nine ball era is not so easy to gauge. I suspect that if I made this list on some other day it might look different, but my hierarchy for this era of pool is:
Efren Reyes
Mike Sigel
Earl Strickland
Shane Van Boening
Alex Pagulayan
Nick Varner
Ralf Souquet
Johnny Archer
Buddy Hall
Throw out all the qualitative stuff. Greatness is measured in titles. Always has been, always will be. Shane's resume of titles validates that he's one of the all time greats.