Where does SVB rank all time?

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Stu has done a brilliant assessment of the greats and their respective era’s in this thread. Mostly I agree with him, if we don’t agree it’s splitting hairs to which there is no definitive answer. (Old Fatboy stepped up his writing game?) told ya I wasn’t that dumb all these years lol j/k. No I didn’t hire a ghost writer.

One thing I didn’t see mentioned in this thread or I missed it. I’d like to add one thing about SVB, it’s not where he ranks. It’s about him. We talked in this or another thread about how hard he works. That’s not disputable. Plenty of us have seen it first hand.

What I’d like to address is what version of SVB do we have today. I met SVB in Reno June 07-I’m 95% confident at the last Sands Reno tourney which he double dipped Johnny Archer 11-9 11-6 iirc in the finals.

That version of SVB was amazing, but he had rough edges, when he played the first TAR match I bet $15,000 on him playing Cory. Could have bet more, everyone knew Cory and SVB was the “kid” in SD that played good.

I’ve been lucky enough to be with SVB at 4-5 Mosconi Cups in the practice room, he stayed with me many times in Vegas and I’d spot balls for hours helping him practice-we didn’t speak, it was work. Serious biz. I offered to help, he said “thanks”. To be a minor minor part and a fly on the wall for his ride to stardom in our little corner of the universe is pretty cool. Front row seats watching him develop into what he is today.

I told this long story to be a show off that my writing has improved and share some lucky moments of my life. SVB and I are friends, we don’t talk often but we do talk about pool of course and other things that will never be public(ok fishing duh, who don’t know that???)

My final point is this, I believe the current version of SVB is thr best version of SVB I’ve seen play over the last 14 years. He was a champion in 07. But now he has that polish that comes with experience and hard work. I think he’s hitting the CB better than ever, his break ‘we already know’, his focus and mental toughness has just got better with time.

When does he peak and level off? IDK, he takes care of himself so I expect longer than the players of the 80’s. He can still improve a bit from this point I firmly believe.

He will be part of the conversation of the all time greats. For his era he is the man…Kid 😉.

Looking forward to seeing the next 14 years happen. It’s been great so far!!

This is how we need to look at pool and respect our players who earn respect. Sure nobody is perfect, but when the fans respect the champions it creates their value. If nobody respected Michael Jordan, he’d be just another player.

just my late night musings

best
Fatboy
Nicely written, sir.

I'm inclined to agree that Shane remains at the very height of his skills. As we've often noted on the forum, the world has caught up. There are more straight shooters than at any time in our sport's history. Asia has been mass-producing great pool talent for twenty five years now, and in the last decade, the quality of European pool has skyrocketed, and not just at the top, as we recently saw all nine Polish entrants at the World Pool Championships reach Stage 2. Europe's Mosconi Cup team of 2020 had, with Fargo in parentheses, Filler (828) Shaw (824) Gorst (818) Kaci (816) Ouschan (810) for an average Fargo rate of 819, which added up to an 11-3 massacre at the Mosconi.

All the credit to Asia and Europe for stepping up their games, and that's why Shane has to do more than ever before if he is to snap off pool's toughest titles like the World Pool Championship, the US Open 9-ball, and the China Open 9-ball ---- but Shane is still a superstar of the highest order.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The entertaining part is that supposedly the "large" pockets at the last World 9 Ball was the reason SVB got knocked out, but in this conversation the large pockets of the older era made it easy for the greats to be great...lol

Pick one people

that's a weird one. the conditions are the same for everyone, and those tables were as you write tighter than most world championships that preceded it. 10 years ago they were buckets in comparison. that doesn't take away from earl's title win in 2002 or mika's the year before. those were brutal fields, pressure was sky high, and even if pockets are tighter now, to me those WPC:s have yet to be surpassed in terms of entertainment value.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I put him at the top of American players. Look at the international field he took down 5 times in the U S Open.

From 1976 to 1993 it was USA vs USA in the finals. This century there has been a foreign player in every final.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
The entertaining part is that supposedly the "large" pockets at the last World 9 Ball was the reason SVB got knocked out, but in this conversation the large pockets of the older era made it easy for the greats to be great...lol

Pick one people
Yeah, sorry this is confusing to you. If the pockets are easier, then true greatness is less likely to shine through. You have more people playing better because of easier conditions, then it's harder to win every match.

So in this case, you're comparing apples to oranges. People made the argument that you can't judge what you've seen of the old school players because they were playing that well on easier conditions, and you're trying to say that that invalidates a completely different argument that Shane hasn't fared as well under easier conditions because other players can play better than they otherwise would BECAUSE of the easier condtions...

I mean you act as though those two arguments are mutually exclusive when they are actually self supportive...

Jaden
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think I might go with Nick Varner at six and Jimmy Caras at seven. Almost too close to call.
I'll call it for you. Jimmy Caras! He came out of a ten year retirement to win the U.S. Open Straight Pool at age 57! Jimmy took the game just as seriously and was a lot like Nick; quiet, unassuming and proud. He got tired of people asking him if he could still play with the top players since he was only doing exhibitions. He really showed them, didn't he!
 

ShootingHank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This a horrible era compared to the ESPN days when pool was more mainstream.

I made to make sure to watch these events when they were on.

Better players in the past therefore worthy of ESPN. Now it sucks.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nicely written, sir.

I'm inclined to agree that Shane remains at the very height of his skills. As we've often noted on the forum, the world has caught up. There are more straight shooters than at any time in our sport's history. Asia has been mass-producing great pool talent for twenty five years now, and in the last decade, the quality of European pool has skyrocketed, and not just at the top, as we recently saw all nine Polish entrants at the World Pool Championships reach Stage 2. Europe's Mosconi Cup team of 2020 had, with Fargo in parentheses, Filler (828) Shaw (824) Gorst (818) Kaci (816) Ouschan (810) for an average Fargo rate of 819, which added up to an 11-3 massacre at the Mosconi.

All the credit to Asia and Europe for stepping up their games, and that's why Shane has to do more than ever before if he is to snap off pool's toughest titles like the World Pool Championship, the US Open 9-ball, and the China Open 9-ball ---- but Shane is still a superstar of the highest order.
Thx Stu, and again we agree😀😀
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This a horrible era compared to the ESPN days when pool was more mainstream.

I made to make sure to watch these events when they were on.

Better players in the past therefore worthy of ESPN. Now it sucks.

It has nothing at all with how good the players are. No-one outside of the real players can tell the difference. When I play in pool halls with random people around they think I am a pro and I'm barely an A- LOL

I don't think skill of the players has one time been mentioned as to why there is no more pool on ESPN, especially since the idea of players 30 years ago getting better is just an idea, which I don't think is correct at all. I have talked to several top players from the 80s and 90s, Archer and Soquet as some specific ones, they both said the players now are overall better than they were back when they were playing in finals.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is there anyway to know what the top 10 or so FargoRates were in the 70s or 80s? Would be interesting to compare to today's top 10.

Accu-Stats has info on the top 10 players using their stat system for pretty much every year/month/event. Also keep in mind "Fargo" the system has not been around back then, but you can certainty see who shot the most with the least errors or won the most tournaments in the Accu-Stats era. In the 70s I think it will be a lot harder to get a solid number though.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll call it for you. Jimmy Caras! He came out of a ten year retirement to win the U.S. Open Straight Pool at age 57! Jimmy took the game just as seriously and was a lot like Nick; quiet, unassuming and proud. He got tired of people asking him if he could still play with the top players since he was only doing exhibitions. He really showed them, didn't he!
Didn't Irving Crane take down a tournament with all the top players when he was in his 60's?
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Didn't Irving Crane take down a tournament with all the top players when he was in his 60's?
He won in 1972 at age 59.
Crane won almost two dozen major championships, including the World Crown in 1946, 1955, 1966, 1968, 1970 and 1972
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are also many great female players who were not considered in this list. They probably deserve a separate GOAT list that would include players such as Allison Fisher, Karen Corr, Siming Chen, Jean Balukas, Ruth McGinnis, Ewa Mataya Lawrence, Lori Jon Jones, Robin Dodson, Jeanette Lee, Ga Young Kim, Gerda Hofstatter, Kelly Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Vivian Villarreal, Pan Xiaoting, etc. These players are certainly among the GOAT female players, but not the GOAT of all players."
You could have stopped after the first five on that list.
 

ShootingHank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Accu-Stats has info on the top 10 players using their stat system for pretty much every year/month/event. Also keep in mind "Fargo" the system has not been around back then, but you can certainty see who shot the most with the least errors or won the most tournaments in the Accu-Stats era. In the 70s I think it will be a lot harder to get a solid number though.
Yea they have accu-stats info.

I remember a friend showing me a young Efren's stats and he was damn near perfect. Of course I didn't how to gauge these numbers but he told me Efren was damn near perfect.
 

eddieindetroit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Time beats even tall mountains down.

The greatest power pitchers eventually loose a bit off their fast ball. Even Muhammad Ali lost a bit of his crispness. Tyson lost a bit of his power.

Sad but true.

Any athletes longevity is impressive and should be respected.
 
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