Which Cuemakers have apprentices?

[jasonlaus]

In my interview with Ernie he said that if he had someone else working on the cues he would have to work twice as hard: Doing his work as well as constantly making sure they were doing theirs up to spec.

As to your opinions of his miters just call him and ask him about them if you really want to know. No one here can give you anything but opinion and conjecture. Ask the man himself.

Fair enough.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I ask that question of every middle aged/older great cuemaker that I talk with. None of them have apprentices and I get two responses on a regular basis. One common statement is that after they learn enough they [apprentices] go off on their own and become the competition. Another is that their work is never correct enough and it costs too much to absorb their mistakes.

It's easy to shoot holes in those excuses but apparently those makers choose to work alone. Go figure...Tom

Well, the master can also be looking at retirement and have an apprentice to train and buy the business.
An apprentice shouldn't cost the maker next to nothing if he knows what he's doing. The apprentice can do the meager jobs and not be involved in the construction of cues. If he wants to practice construction, he can buy his own parts/supplies.
I heard two big-named makers "retired" after their apprentices/assistants left their shops. That tells me how much value they could be.

 

[JoeyInCali]

In my interview with Ernie he said that if he had someone else working on the cues he would have to work twice as hard: Doing his work as well as constantly making sure they were doing theirs up to spec.

As to your opinions of his miters just call him and ask him about them if you really want to know. No one here can give you anything but opinion and conjecture. Ask the man himself.

I don't know why that would be.
He sends the g-codes to all those turning machines.
All the apprentice would do is setup jobs.

 

[manwon]

Actually these are very valid reasons not to have apprentices. An apprentice by definition is someone who is learning for the purpose of becoming a master of the craft. As a master of the craft they would naturally seek to either own or be in charge of a shop. It's just natural progression if someone is in an apprentice position.

This is different than an assistant. An assistant normally is not trained in all aspects of the craft and is only expected to reach proficiency in the tasks assigned to them.

Both assistants and apprentices however are prone to making errors and that in fact is a cost that the shop must absorb.

I can tell you that I often have to redo cases because my inexperienced staff makes mistakes. Eventually they won't make those mistakes. But until that day I have to be responsible for what goes out the door and if that means we have to do it again five times then that's the way it is.

So I can understand the sentiment about not wanting to create future competition and not wanting to pay for other people's ineptitude.

An apprentice by definition is someone who is learning for the purpose of becoming a master of the craft. As a master of the craft they would naturally seek to either own or be in charge of a shop.

John, there is a down side to not having an apprentice also, while all the above can certainly happen, a great deal of knowledge also go's to the grave with people who have this mind set.

There have been many innovations through history that have had to be re-discovered because of this type of thinking. Many of the great cue makers today have special techniques known only to them. It just seems ashame that the proud traditions of so many are not carried forward.

I suppose that's life!!!!

 

[JCIN]

I don't know why that would be.
He sends the g-codes to all those turning machines.
All the apprentice would do is setup jobs.

Well I would say that the set up is fairly important. I used to work for a company that made combustion chambers for GE. We made a part for the engines on Boening 777's. A bad set up on one of the final processes scrapped a $100,000 part. The program was just perfect but that little set up thing can really hurt. I could tell quite a few bad set up stories from the auto industry that were 5 figure expensive.

I am guessing that over the last 30 years Ernie has paid in time, money and frustraion to figure out those set ups and all that can go wrong and just doesnt want to have to pay for someone else to learn those lessons. Even if someone did it he would have to follow right behind and check it.

I recently had someone locally offer to edit and master our dvds. By the time I showed them everything, set them up, and walked them through how I wanted it done it would be more work than its worth. Video editing and DVD mastering is about 1% of the complexity of building a cue so I understand what he was saying.

 

[jazznpool]

Ernie had a helper, assistant, or whatever else you want to call him until about a year ago. The dude's name was Soren and you better believe he was trained up to speed and then some in the tasks he performed. Ernie would have been on Soren's arse in a minute if the work wasn't up to Ginacue standards. I don't think he did any of inlay work though.

Martin

In my interview with Ernie he said that if he had someone else working on the cues he would have to work twice as hard: Doing his work as well as constantly making sure they were doing theirs up to spec.

As to your opinions of his miters just call him and ask him about them if you really want to know. No one here can give you anything but opinion and conjecture. Ask the man himself.

 

[JCIN]

Ernie had a helper, assistant, or whatever else you want to call him until about a year ago. The dude's name was Soren and you better believe he was trained up to speed and then some in the tasks he performed. Ernie would have been on Soren's arse in a minute if the work wasn't up to Ginacue standards. I don't think he did any of inlay work though.

Martin

Like I said, those were Ernies words to me. You can see them here http://www.theactionreport.com/Gina_Interview.html

 

[jazznpool]

There's the usual hands on for most cue tasks at Ernie's shop. I've been there several times when work was underway, including putting a taper turn on a rosewood burl forearm using a .060 thick parting tool as the cutter! The points and inlay work is automated to a large degree. Ernie has various stations set up for doing repetitive cue tasks without having to change a machine out. Ernie works his arse off to make so many high end cues and I think he still enjoys the craft.

Martin

I don't know why that would be.
He sends the g-codes to all those turning machines.
All the apprentice would do is setup jobs.

 

[jazznpool]

Not doubting that at all. Just sharing a fact with the group.

Like I said, those were Ernies words to me. You can see them here http://www.theactionreport.com/Gina_Interview.html

 

[JB Cases]

An apprentice by definition is someone who is learning for the purpose of becoming a master of the craft. As a master of the craft they would naturally seek to either own or be in charge of a shop.

John, there is a down side to not having an apprentice also, while all the above can certainly happen, a great deal of knowledge also go's to the grave with people who have this mind set.

There have been many innovations through history that have had to be re-discovered because of this type of thinking. Many of the great cue makers today have special techniques known only to them. It just seems ashame that the proud traditions of so many are not carried forward.

I suppose that's life!!!!

Well I don't think that anyone who is really interested in learning to build cues won't be able to find someone qualified to work with.

I also think that in today's world people do want to share (brag) about things that they have discovered as far as techniques go. So even if they don't have apprentices the word gets out about whatever magic that they are doing.

It's a personal choice thing though. I go both ways but lean towards sharing.

I haven't yet had any of my assistants go off and start a case company. I have had partners steal one from me. I suppose someday I will have to face it when one of my employees starts their own company. Until then I hope to have built up enough of a reputation to continue on doing what I love to do.

But one thing that stands clear for me - I am responsible for everything that leaves our shop no matter who in my shop does the work. I hope that if any of my people start their own business then they will remember that and value it.

 

[manwon]

Well I don't think that anyone who is really interested in learning to build cues won't be able to find someone qualified to work with.

I also think that in today's world people do want to share (brag) about things that they have discovered as far as techniques go. So even if they don't have apprentices the word gets out about whatever magic that they are doing.

It's a personal choice thing though. I go both ways but lean towards sharing.

I haven't yet had any of my assistants go off and start a case company. I have had partners steal one from me. I suppose someday I will have to face it when one of my employees starts their own company. Until then I hope to have built up enough of a reputation to continue on doing what I love to do.

But one thing that stands clear for me - I am responsible for everything that leaves our shop no matter who in my shop does the work. I hope that if any of my people start their own business then they will remember that and value it.

But one thing that stands clear for me - I am responsible for everything that leaves our shop no matter who in my shop does the work. I hope that if any of my people start their own business then they will remember that and value it.

I totally agree John, I suspect that is what anyone would want.

Thanks for the reply.