Which game is the best measure of greatness?

[Shawn Armstrong]

I found Billy's post on One Pocket interesting, and wanted to put my own spin on it. I measure true billiards excellence by greatness at certain games. One pocket, to me, is like measuring basketball ability by playing HORSE. I know I may insult a few players here who are one-pocket specialists, and I apologize if you take offense to my statement. I truly think the greatest test of billiards greatness is Straight Pool. It takes the break out of the game, and is based purely on position play and cueball control. It's a long game, so stamina is required. It requires incredible problem solving skills. And, from what I have seen, the greats of straight pool are able to play all the games well. I think that Mike Sigel is the greatest player to have picked up a cue. He was top 3 in the world in 9-ball, being one of the most feared players on the tour, tourney or cash game. He played 8-ball and Banks well, too. Allen Hopkins was also in this category. Steve Mizerak, Jim Rempe, Grady, etc.. The straight pool greats have proven themselves in more disciplines than any other games. This is why I respect the German players so much. They don't just excel at one game. They're truly great at straight pool, and that directly translates to success at the other games. They seem to be owning a lot of hardware when it comes to 9-ball lately too. Maybe the one pocket players should be thankful they haven't become interested in one pocket yet...................

 

[3andstop]

I found Billy's post on One Pocket interesting, and wanted to put my own spin on it. I measure true billiards excellence by greatness at certain games. One pocket, to me, is like measuring basketball ability by playing HORSE. I know I may insult a few players here who are one-pocket specialists, and I apologize if you take offense to my statement. I truly think the greatest test of billiards greatness is Straight Pool. It takes the break out of the game, and is based purely on position play and cueball control. It's a long game, so stamina is required. It requires incredible problem solving skills. And, from what I have seen, the greats of straight pool are able to play all the games well. I think that Mike Sigel is the greatest player to have picked up a cue. He was top 3 in the world in 9-ball, being one of the most feared players on the tour, tourney or cash game. He played 8-ball and Banks well, too. Allen Hopkins was also in this category. Steve Mizerak, Jim Rempe, Grady, etc.. The straight pool greats have proven themselves in more disciplines than any other games. This is why I respect the German players so much. They don't just excel at one game. They're truly great at straight pool, and that directly translates to success at the other games. They seem to be owning a lot of hardware when it comes to 9-ball lately too. Maybe the one pocket players should be thankful they haven't become interested in one pocket yet...................

I love one pocket, but you wouldn't ever get an argument from me that straight pool is the game of games.

 

[jay helfert]

It's close between Rotation and One Pocket.

 

[3andstop]

LOL Jay, I have to take that answer "tongue in cheek"

I also love rotation ring games, and yes you see many world class shots in those games. Sometimes off the light fixtures, sometimes caroms off players on the next table, and sometimes ya just can't see em at all.

 

[Pinocchio]

!!!!!!!!!

I always heard when you get to old to play nine-ball you can always play one hole. No disrespect intended to anyone. Though straight pool is the greatest of games sadly just like one-pocket it is a boring spectator sport.
Nineball will always be king of pool for the railbirds.
Pinocchio

 

[Blackjack]

I think any game is boring if you don't understand the intricacies that are involved with it. There was a time I couldn't watch one pocket, nevermind play it, mainly because I did not understand it. I think 14.1 is an exciting game if you understand exactly what the player is trying to accomplish - the same can be said of one pocket.

As far as which game is the greatest test of skill... each game provides its own level of difficulty and forces the player to rely upon different sets of skills. FWIW, I think we should invent a game called "one pocket-bank-rotation-straight pool". I'd still bet the farm on Reyes.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I think any game is boring if you don't understand the intricacies that are involved with it. There was a time I couldn't watch one pocket, nevermind play it, mainly because I did not understand it. I think 14.1 is an exciting game if you understand exactly what the player is trying to accomplish - the same can be said of one pocket.

As far as which game is the greatest test of skill... each game provides its own level of difficulty and forces the player to rely upon different sets of skills. FWIW, I think we should invent a game called "one pocket-bank-rotation-straight pool". I'd still bet the farm on Reyes.

It would be a Sigel/Reyes final. My money's on Mike.

 

[Blackjack]

It would be a Sigel/Reyes final. My money's on Mike.

Apparantly you didn't see them dance in Orlando a few years back playing 8 ball, did you? lol

I respect the hell out of Mike, I really do, he's one of the best ever, But ... after that King of the Hill match, I don't think Mike knew what the hell hit him.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Apparantly you didn't see them dance in Orlando a few years back playing 8 ball, did you? lol

I respect the hell out of Mike, I really do, he's one of the best ever, But ... after that King of the Hill match, I don't think Mike knew what the hell hit him.

You said one-pocket-bank-rotation-straight pool. I didn't see 8-ball in there. Back in the 80s and 90s, Mike owned Efren. At ALL the games.

 

[Big Perm]

There isn't one....

The best measure of greatness in pool/billiard games is the ability to pick up a cue, out move your opponent, and score at will, with proficiency, at as many games as possible....

Billiards, 8-ball, rotation games, 1pkt, 14.1, or any other game....the best in each game garners much respect, and those that can play many of them well are the true greats.....

Being one who wants to improve my game at all levels and learn as many of these games as possible at a high level, I keep comtemplating the way to pull off a tournament that includes a few different games.....ie, 1pkt, 14.1, 10-ball, and 8-ball......essentially, you'd have round robin play to establish a top 16, where each session would include a race to 2 in 1pkt, race to 70 in 14.1, race to 5 in 10-ball, and a race to 5 in 8-ball.....the round robins would have about 5 players each and would take an entire day, with a shot clock....it would be a grueling test, with 8 pools of 5....the top two players in each pool, based on a point system from each match in each discipline, would make it into the bracket....the next two days would be more gueling and the games would be longer....obviously, still working on it, but it sounds fun.....to me...hope this is still on topic

 

[Blackjack]

You said one-pocket-bank-rotation-straight pool. I didn't see 8-ball in there. Back in the 80s and 90s, Mike owned Efren. At ALL the games.

And today he doesn't, Shawn... and I know for a fact Mike won't argue that - however you will? Ok.



Back on topic, I believe that banks & one pocket are the games that separate the big boys from the little boys.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

And today he doesn't, Shawn... and I know for a fact Mike won't argue that - however you will? Ok.



Back on topic, I believe that banks & one pocket are the games that separate the big boys from the little boys.

Didn't mean to strike a nerve. Mike retired from pool, Efren didn't. Your comment about the whipping that Mike took compares retired Mike to tour player Efren. It's an unfair comparison. I merely quoted their records when they were both actively playing.

 

[instroke75]

i'll take straight pool over one pocket all day! what Shawn said about straight pool players excelling in all games is pretty true, but then i can think of a whole bunch of one pocket players i've met all over who could play top notch one hole cause they moved well, but might need the 7 or better from your local B or weak A player! just my opinion!..............jeremy

 

[The Woim]

One Pocket is the Toughtest Game

One Pocket is the toughest game because it incorporates ALL of the great skills: banking, position, kicking, strong defensive play. A lot of great straight shooters don't have the whole package.

Oh yeah, please don't rattle off a list of greats. I know 'em already. But in straight pool you have 6 pockets, 1 pocket - well, you count it.

14.1 is the game of champions, though. Unfortunately, one pocket is a hustler's gimmicky game.

I refuse to play one pocket because, well, most of the great one pocket guys look homeless and destitute and my Momma taught me to pity the pitifull and not steal what little sunshine they have.

One Pocket's the toughest skill game!

The Woim

 

[Snapshot9]

Well you are going to find this disturbing

One Pocket is the toughest game because it incorporates ALL of the great skills: banking, position, kicking, strong defensive play. A lot of great straight shooters don't have the whole package.

Oh yeah, please don't rattle off a list of greats. I know 'em already. But in straight pool you have 6 pockets, 1 pocket - well, you count it.

14.1 is the game of champions, though. Unfortunately, one pocket is a hustler's gimmicky game.

I refuse to play one pocket because, well, most of the great one pocket guys look homeless and destitute and my Momma taught me to pity the pitifull and not steal what little sunshine they have.

One Pocket's the toughest skill game!

The Woim

since you are a 'newbie', but I agree with you. The game that requires the most from you to play well is the greatest, and overall 1 Pocket is that game. But, I wonder, how many 1 Pocket games are won simply because 1 player runs the other out of patience .... LOL, rather than by skill.

And for the initiator of the thread, why does 14.1 take the break out of the game, I can still make a ball off a full rack in 14.1?????

 

[3andstop]

Even though my thoughts on measuring greatness remain with 14.1 I can't for the life of me understand how it takes the break out of the game.

In 9 ball if you break a rack well you are a favorite to win the game. Conversely if you don't break the ball well in 14.1 you may very well be the odds on favorite to loose the MATCH! Since in straight pool, the match consists of only one game.

One pocket is a wonderful game. I enjoy it immensely, but it is IMO an entirely different animal.

Whereas all the other games primarily focus on pocketing balls to win, one pocket's focus is on moving and planning much more than it is on pocketing balls.

You can be a world class one pocket player and not necessarily be a world beater in either 14.1 or 9 ball. But, chances are, if you can run a 100 balls in 14.1 or string racks together in 9 ball, you are more likely a stronger all around player.

Anyway, back to the 14.1 break, while it may not be a big factor with players who commonly split racks, it is huge if you are playing folks who could hit you with even a 40 or 50 in a game to 100.

 

[3kushn]

It's close between Rotation and One Pocket.

Never see rotation played so it never entered my mind.
I was going to say, in order.

1 pocket then
14:1

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Even though my thoughts on measuring greatness remain with 14.1 I can't for the life of me understand how it takes the break out of the game.

In 9 ball if you break a rack well you are a favorite to win the game. Conversely if you don't break the ball well in 14.1 you may very well be the odds on favorite to loose the MATCH! Since in straight pool, the match consists of only one game.

One pocket is a wonderful game. I enjoy it immensely, but it is IMO an entirely different animal.

Whereas all the other games primarily focus on pocketing balls to win, one pocket's focus is on moving and planning much more than it is on pocketing balls.

You can be a world class one pocket player and not necessarily be a world beater in either 14.1 or 9 ball. But, chances are, if you can run a 100 balls in 14.1 or string racks together in 9 ball, you are more likely a stronger all around player.

Anyway, back to the 14.1 break, while it may not be a big factor with players who commonly split racks, it is huge if you are playing folks who could hit you with even a 40 or 50 in a game to 100.

You can't win the game on the break in 14.1. That was my point. You can pop a few 9s and win a match. You have break-out shots in straight pool. There's no standing up and hammering the rack to start the game or the match. That was what I meant when I was talking about the break.

 

[3andstop]

I was thinking. Now, if the question were asked, which game is the most difficult to master, then perhaps one pocket would get my vote. The "measure of greatness" has to encompass all the games however so the questions have different answers.

 

[ApoDra]

Rotation played mostly in Phillipines I have never heard about any other country that these game is played, these goes for One Pocket it is been played in the US only... So how can you call greatness with games that are not international... about straight pool Calling an event World 14-1 Championship and have 38 players from US from a 64 player field is a joke.
9 Ball is King at the moment and the WPC title is the title to win and these is all the greatness I need to see...