Which is version of ten ball is preferred?

[Michael Andros]

Michael, I played 9-ball in the Carolinas when I was a kid....the game was played like
ring game rules...no safeties.....and they would bet.
No wonder a player like Earl came from that background...you learned to make SHOTS.

When Texas Express started, I wouldn’t play them...but eventually I did...
...it’s a good way also...different skill set...but great skill involved.....
...having a snooker background helped.

If you ever see me playing call shot 9 or 10-ball though...it’ll be ‘cause I got jarred...

Yeah, PT, understood... something good to be said about "best effort" rules. And, yes, safety play takes expertise and the entire back n forth between 1 and 2 fouls has been done to death. I was just being facetious. But, that said? Do I wanna be gambling and be forced to kick at the 7 with the table wide open at hill-hill? No thank you... :yeah:

 

[jay helfert]

The best 10-ball event in recent memory was the Bigfoot Challenge at Derby City this past January, in which most of the truly elite participated. The event was played Texas Express, not call shot, and it worked in a big way.

I totally agree with you here. We set up the Bigfoot tournament this way from the beginning. Ten Ball with 9-Ball rules works just fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I also think the ten ball should count on the break, just like in 9-Ball. It is MUCH harder to make the ten on the break and it may happen only once or twice in the entire Bigfoot event.

 

[AtLarge]

I totally agree with you here. We set up the Bigfoot tournament this way from the beginning. Ten Ball with 9-Ball rules works just fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I also think the ten ball should count on the break, just like in 9-Ball. It is MUCH harder to make the ten on the break and it may happen only once or twice in the entire Bigfoot event.

Don't forget about the Bigfoot event in Tunica in 2013, Jay.

In the early Fatboy 10-Ball events (predecessors to the Bigfoot events), a 10-ball made on the break in any pocket counted as a win. That rule was later changed (at the players' request?) so that a 10-ball made on the break in a foot-rail pocket did not count as a win. Beginning with the 2014 DCC Bigfoot event, and continuing through this year, a 10-ball made on the break in any pocket has not counted as a win.

So what happened at Tunica in 2013? Only 9 of the 15 matches were streamed. But in those 9 matches, 10-balls were made on the break 13 times, including 11 times in the semifinal and final matches. Fortunately, 12 of those 13 10-balls were spotted because of the rule change.

In 2016, they began using the Accu-Rack instead of a wooden triangle, and that has cut down on the number of 10-balls on the break. But here is the count of 10's on the break in the Bigfoot events, beginning with that one at Tunica in 2013.

2013 -- 13
2014 -- 6
2015 -- 7
2016 -- 3
2017 -- 0
2018 -- 4
2019 -- 1

 

[garczar]

Don't forget about the Bigfoot event in Tunica in 2013, Jay.

In the early Fatboy 10-Ball events (predecessors to the Bigfoot events), a 10-ball made on the break in any pocket counted as a win. That rule was later changed (at the players' request?) so that a 10-ball made on the break in a foot-rail pocket did not count as a win. Beginning with the 2014 DCC Bigfoot event, and continuing through this year, a 10-ball made on the break in any pocket has not counted as a win.

So what happened at Tunica in 2013? Only 9 of the 15 matches were streamed. But in those 9 matches, 10-balls were made on the break 13 times, including 11 times in the semifinal and final matches. Fortunately, 12 of those 13 10-balls were spotted because of the rule change.

In 2016, they began using the Accu-Rack instead of a wooden triangle, and that has cut down on the number of 10-balls on the break. But here is the count of 10's on the break in the Bigfoot events, beginning with that one at Tunica in 2013.

2013 -- 13
2014 -- 6
2015 -- 7
2016 -- 3
2017 -- 0
2018 -- 4
2019 -- 1

Tunica had on in '12 also. That was where Landon smoked Earl. I was there sweatin' it. That kid tortured the Pearl.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again: "Call shot 10 ball is a game invented by sore losers". I stand by it. When you read the rules you can almost hear their whines. "You didn't mean to do that! wah, wah, wah":crying:.


Removing the two way shot dimishes the strategic aspect of the game. It makes the rules more complicated and the game more boring to watch. Call shot is also unnecessary. I'm against calling shots for all the major games except bank pool and straight pool. Texas Express 10 ball is the way to go.

 

[jay helfert]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again: "Call shot 10 ball is a game invented by sore losers". I stand by it. When you read the rules you can almost hear their whines. "You didn't mean to do that! wah, wah, wah":crying:.


Removing the two way shot dimishes the strategic aspect of the game. It makes the rules more complicated and the game more boring to watch. Call shot is also unnecessary. I'm against calling shots for all the major games except bank pool and straight pool. Texas Express 10 ball is the way to go.

Tap!! Tap!!

 

[jay helfert]

Tunica had on in '12 also. That was where Landon smoked Earl. I was there sweatin' it. That kid tortured the Pearl.

I stand down to your stats. Now compare that with an equal number of 9-Ball matches that were a Race to Eleven, with the one ball on the spot. I will then rest my case.

 

[sjm]

I stand down to your stats. Now compare that with an equal number of 9-Ball matches that were a Race to Eleven, with the one ball on the spot. I will then rest my case.

I once discussed the nine ball break with Pat Fleming, and he indicated that his compiled accu-stats showed that, at top level, nine on the break was about a 3% proposition.

The Bigfoot 10-ball event has usually consisted of fifteen matches. If we guess that an average match is 17 racks, then a Bigfoot consists of 15 x 17, or 255 racks per year. If we oversimplify by assuming that the nine and the ten go on the break equally often, that means that we should expect about 8 occurrences per Bigfoot Challenge of the ten on the break, or about once per two matches played. The At-Large Stats offered show that we should expect about five per event (34 in seven years), or just one per three matches played.

I'd count the ten on the break if it's as rare as this. Speaking as a fan, I find the making of the money ball on the break to be very exciting, and so do most other fans of the game. I've never understood why anyone ever chose to litigate this kind of excitement out of pool.

 

[hang-the-9]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again: "Call shot 10 ball is a game invented by sore losers". I stand by it. When you read the rules you can almost hear their whines. "You didn't mean to do that! wah, wah, wah":crying:.


Removing the two way shot dimishes the strategic aspect of the game. It makes the rules more complicated and the game more boring to watch. Call shot is also unnecessary. I'm against calling shots for all the major games except bank pool and straight pool. Texas Express 10 ball is the way to go.

I would think most players (that are any good) would disagree with you there. Called shot should be in any game played by anyone past causal banger level. If you want to play spray and hope, that can be done on any number of bar tables with a bunch of drunks shoving each other around while they shoot. Soon as someone understands what aiming actually is and how to do it, any randomness in pocketing should be removed. I also don't think that any pool game should be won or lost on the break like APA and some other leagues do. Make the 8, spot it, make the 8 and scratch, spot it, make the 9, spot it.

For luck there is always the lottery and sex without condoms.

 

[DelawareDogs]

What we call Pro10. Basically its exact same rules as WPA but you can carom/combo 10b for a win. No call safety crap. Never a fan of removing the 2way shot. If you want to remove ALL luck go play 14.1. My $.02, nothing more.

Agreed, taking the 2 way shot away is absolutely over the top.
However, it does remind me of that 1992 Strickland vs. Massey match. 9 ball that was offense only...... "shoot again, until I say don't shoot again"

 

[Straightpool_99]

I would think most players (that are any good) would disagree with you there. Called shot should be in any game played by anyone past causal banger level. If you want to play spray and hope, that can be done on any number of bar tables with a bunch of drunks shoving each other around while they shoot. Soon as someone understands what aiming actually is and how to do it, any randomness in pocketing should be removed. I also don't think that any pool game should be won or lost on the break like APA and some other leagues do. Make the 8, spot it, make the 8 and scratch, spot it, make the 9, spot it.

For luck there is always the lottery and sex without condoms.

I think, on the contrary that the "call everything" is the hillbilly Version of pool. Are you going to advocate for "8 has to go in clean" as well?

The following games do not have call shot: Blackball, Chinese 8 ball, Rotation, Snooker, 3-cushion...I think I'll have to quit my job and spend my whole day telling the bums who play these games to stop blasting balls all over the place and play like men...Oh, that's right, these are the best cueists in the world…

 

[sjm]

Soon as someone understands what aiming actually is and how to do it, any randomness in pocketing should be removed.

Yes, but call shot also removes some skill by eliminating the opportunity to play more than one shot at a time. I believe it was in the US Open final that Filler played both the object ball and the carom nine at the same time (turned out, he made both), and, to me, that's one of the most majestic and skillful shots in our game. A guy named Reyes was well known for playing this sort of multi-purpose shot, too. I don't want one of the most imaginative shots in our game litigated out of existence by the rules.

 

[hang-the-9]

I think, on the contrary that the "call everything" is the hillbilly Version of pool. Are you going to advocate for "8 has to go in clean" as well?

The following games do not have call shot: Blackball, Chinese 8 ball, Rotation, Snooker, 3-cushion...I think I'll have to quit my job and spend my whole day telling the bums who play these games to stop blasting balls all over the place and play like men...Oh, that's right, these are the best cueists in the world…

I am not talking about calling every rail contact or ball contact.

Random shots in snooker is very rare due to table size and pocket size, Chinese 8 ball is about the same thing, tough to make a ball. Don't see rotation games much so can't tell how often them make a ball in a wrong pocket, but I would guess since the table is more crowded than 9 or 10 ball, it would be half as often.

But in 9 ball, there is always some dope that misses an easy 9 then banks it around 3 rails into another pocket.

No amount of examples of not called shot games would make me think randomly making a ball in any game is good. Does not matter how good the players are or what game.

 

[skogstokig]

i liked it better before they took away combo-10-balls. but call shot is fine, it gives the discipline variation from 9-ball. i wouldn't like it if they changed 9-ball.