do you thin the 11 ball into the rack and leave the cue uptable near point A? my concern is that there's a chance the 11 ball will line up for a combo into the bottom corner pocket.
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which safety do you play here?
- Thread starter Njhustler1
- Start date
As crazy as it sounds I'd be seriously tempted to shoot the 11 into the top left side utilizing a lot of side spin and open the rack a bit but not completely. To be more defensive, I would thinly hit the 14 so you move as little of the rack as you can. I think thinning the 11 could open up the rack too much or set up a dead ball in the corner with a good shot coming from position A next. I also really like the roll into the 1 ball.
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how about thinning the 11 with a quarter ball it, right-hand spin, with speed to 3 or 4 rail it back up table, near the corner?
Ideally the 11 should go into the rack, the 14 should go to the side rail and back into the pile; leaving nothing to shoot at...
Ideally the 11 should go into the rack, the 14 should go to the side rail and back into the pile; leaving nothing to shoot at...
the risk of leaving a combination is to big
This is actually a pretty common & high percentage shot I have played and I have seen played many times successfully...
Most notably I watched Stephan Cohen lay it on Mika Immonen in the 2009 World Straight Pool Championship...
Not withstanding, Steve Mizerak demonstrated it in one of his videos...
My main concern with doing this with the 11 is that there is nothing good to come of it. Cue ball placement is paramount in a situation like this - and as I have illustrated in the below diagram (2 pages) you should try to hid the cue ball better than you demonstrated. If you leave the cue ball out in space like that, you give your opponent the opportunity to come to the table and assume control of the safety battle. I don't want that. I want him in reactionary mode.
Also, I don't like doing this because you're just giving away the 11. To accomplish what you've illustrated, you will move more than just the 11, and you might create balls that end up wired in either corner pocket.
In a situation such as that, you have to be extremely careful or you might pay a high price for your carelessness. Personally, I love looking for and finding dead balls. Its what I live for. I would greet a move like that with a cold stare, an evil laugh, and bad intentions. In this situation, it's best to just take the foul and leave your opponent with very little to shoot at. Above all else, the important thing is to maintain control of the situation.
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Cuetable images...
I'd love to offer some input in threads like this, but Cuetable images are blocked at work, and at home I run Linux (no appropriate browser plug-in), so they don't display there, either.
I'd love to offer some input in threads like this, but Cuetable images are blocked at work, and at home I run Linux (no appropriate browser plug-in), so they don't display there, either.
Safe
Thinning the 11 and going up table is too risky. Particularly if you’re playing someone like our beloved Blackjack who will look and look and look for a dead ball until he finds one and laugh at you as he fires into the pack making it. Although taking an intentional scratch doesn’t particularly sound too appealing either. Rather than maintain control of the safety battle you’ll effectively be handing it over to your opponent (unless he’s already on 2). There doesn’t look to be any dead balls as the rack stands now. If you play an intentional scratch and don’t move any balls around he can easily send the CB 1 or 2 rails and have you look at pretty much the same rack, but from 7 feet away. If you do elect to take an intentional, make sure you kick a ball out into the open to take away his desire of putting the CB uptable on you.
What I’m looking at is the 1, 4, 13, 14 – the line of balls across the back of the rack. They all look like they’re touching or very close together and the rack has obviously been disturbed so some or all of them may be loosened up from the balls in front of them. I may try to roll the CB with soft follow into the 1 just hard enough to kick the 14 to the side rail. The 1 will protect me on one side and the 15 will protect me on the other. So if the 11 splits off a few inches the best I’d be leaving is a cross side bank with my opponent trying to bridge over three balls. If the 11 doesn’t move I’d love that safe even more! An attempted safe for my opponent off the 11 may end up being a dead scratch in the upper left corner while a safe off the 1 will require him to use a bridge over the 15 ball while standing at the head of the table.
A second safe would be to feather the 14 and leave the CB near the side rail. But FIRST, check to see if the 1 is a dead kiss off the 15 ball. If it is, ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
Ron F
Thinning the 11 and going up table is too risky. Particularly if you’re playing someone like our beloved Blackjack who will look and look and look for a dead ball until he finds one and laugh at you as he fires into the pack making it. Although taking an intentional scratch doesn’t particularly sound too appealing either. Rather than maintain control of the safety battle you’ll effectively be handing it over to your opponent (unless he’s already on 2). There doesn’t look to be any dead balls as the rack stands now. If you play an intentional scratch and don’t move any balls around he can easily send the CB 1 or 2 rails and have you look at pretty much the same rack, but from 7 feet away. If you do elect to take an intentional, make sure you kick a ball out into the open to take away his desire of putting the CB uptable on you.
What I’m looking at is the 1, 4, 13, 14 – the line of balls across the back of the rack. They all look like they’re touching or very close together and the rack has obviously been disturbed so some or all of them may be loosened up from the balls in front of them. I may try to roll the CB with soft follow into the 1 just hard enough to kick the 14 to the side rail. The 1 will protect me on one side and the 15 will protect me on the other. So if the 11 splits off a few inches the best I’d be leaving is a cross side bank with my opponent trying to bridge over three balls. If the 11 doesn’t move I’d love that safe even more! An attempted safe for my opponent off the 11 may end up being a dead scratch in the upper left corner while a safe off the 1 will require him to use a bridge over the 15 ball while standing at the head of the table.
A second safe would be to feather the 14 and leave the CB near the side rail. But FIRST, check to see if the 1 is a dead kiss off the 15 ball. If it is, ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
Ron F
I am! or with right english so i dont hit the 15 that full.
thats the only shot i can see that puts your opponent in a trap with no risk
sorry, i was quick.. The cueball is behind the rack, not at A.
for those that said they'd take the scratch, where would you send the cue ball? wouldn that automatically put the opponent in the driver seat if they're not on any scratches?
i'm not a novice, nor am i an expert. but what's so bad about leaving someone all the way at the other end of the table (assuming that there was no combo that was going to be left)? maybe i missed something but how does that put your opponent in a position of strength?
i'm not a novice, nor am i an expert. but what's so bad about leaving someone all the way at the other end of the table (assuming that there was no combo that was going to be left)? maybe i missed something but how does that put your opponent in a position of strength?
You don't gain much by putting your opponent on the other side.. you risk leaving a combination when you nudge the rack, and if you don't, he can easily
get out by going behind the rack and taking a scratch.
I just don't like this angle so I think I'd shake up the balls lightly by going into the back of them and hope for a little better angle on the next shot. But the more I look at that 4 ball in the rack, the more I like my thought of rolling off it and the 13, 14 since the 4 is loose.
i'm starting to get the impression that (when all the balls are racked together, or pretty close to it) most of you would prefer to play a safety where you leave the cueball behind the stack, rather than all the way up table. this is kind of surprising to me. i've always much preferred to leave people all the way up table, near the middle of the far rail, as far from the stack as possible. Because quite frankly, I don't see any easy way out of that situation. :scratchhead:
a one pocket player:grin:
i like that safe